Freedom to practice religion is not theocracy. Having personal faith and expressing it is not evil.
Here in the US we have the right to hold and practice religious beliefs. Many other places tend to kill you if you believe or others if you don't believe.
I like the idea of having this right.
As do I, and I'm the first to take issue with those who would interfere with it. Unfortunately that's not what we're talking about with Palin and other fundamentalist zealots.
First it must be understood, and agreed, that there is a separation of church and state in this nation. You don't have to agree that there SHOULD be (at this point of the conversation), only that there is. The courts are clear on this, the existing documentation from our founding document debates is clear on this...there is NO rational argument against that point.
Given that, there are issues with what Palin has said, and continues to say:
"Pray for our military men and women who are striving to do what is right. Also, for this country, that our leaders, our national leaders, are sending [U.S. soldiers] out on a task that is from God," she exhorted the congregants. "That's what we have to make sure that we're praying for, that there is a plan and that that plan is God's plan."
As commander and chief there is NO PLACE for involving religion with military deployment...especially when the enemy we're currently facing is one which is involving religion of their own. Not only would it be a direct violation of our entire system of government, it would ostracize us in the international stage and create INCREDIBLE opposition to our...perhaps even seriously increasing attacks against us based on it. While you can privately pray, and hope for God's intervention, you can NOT publicly entwine ANY religion with the political actions of a nation.
Palin also is one of just two governors who channeled federal money to support religious groups through a state agency, Alaska's Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives.
NOT ACCEPTABLE IN ANY FORM!
Since she took state office in late 2006, the governor and her family have spent more than $13,000 in taxpayer funds to attend at least 10 religious events and meetings with Christian pastors
ONLY acceptable if done in direct relation to the specific duties of her office, which most weren't according to investigations into the spending.
Records of her mayoral correspondence show that Palin worked arduously to organize a day of prayer at city hall.
NOT ACCEPTABLE IN ANY FORM!
His intention in expressing that was so that government did not mandate a religion on people. And Thomas Jefferson also said never underestimate the wisdom of the people. And the wisdom of the people, I think in this issue is that people have the right and the ability and the desire to express their own religious views, be it a very personal level, which is why I choose to express my faith, or in a more public forum.
An unconscionable misrepresentation of Jefferson's meaning, and an absolute abomination for someone acting in an official capacity of the government.
In that same period, she also joined a grass-roots, faith-based movement to stop the local hospital from performing abortions, a fight that ultimately lost before the Alaska Supreme Court.
Palin's former church and other evangelical denominations were instrumental in ousting members of Valley Hospital's board who supported abortion rights - including the governor's mother-in-law, Faye Palin.
Alaska Right to Life Director Karen Lewis, who led the campaign, said Palin was nott a leader in the movement initially. But by 1997, after she had been elected mayor, Palin joined a hospital board to make sure the abortion ban held while the courts considered whether the ban was legal, Lewis said.
Should be a criminal offense for someone holding office.
Shes in favor of teaching both creationism and evolution in the public schools. "Teach both," she said in a 2006 gubernatorial debate. "Dont be afraid of information."
That one pretty much speaks for itself. That should deny her any public office more or less for life.
Speaking in favor of a natural gas pipeline she wanted build in Alaska, Palin said: "I think God's will has to be done in unifying people and companies to get that gas line built, so pray for that."
So not only is she a religious zealot, she's got the iq of a kumquat and is clinically batshit insane as well.
Now let's get back to the thread origin
No one person has all the right answers. It takes a united nation, and it does take godly counsel, and it takes prayer and answers to prayer - and a collective humble heart of a nation seeking God's hand of protection and his blessings of prosperity.
That right there is ALMOST enough on its own to bring it to a physical violence level. It suggests that the nation itself is somehow affected by God, that the government acts (or needs to act) only with God's will. THAT is unacceptable in ANY government member. You don't pray for the solution to national and international policy, you educate your goddamn self enough to actually be able to work the problem. You have ostracized any who aren't fervent believers in religion with that statement, and given the US 0 credibility with 90% of the nations on the planet.
She said the United States has been "touched by God" because the nation's early leaders dedicated the country to God.
Not only a bold faced lie, but again it sets us as a target in terrorism, a joke in international politics, and fragments the population along already heated lines.
Palin is definitely religious, baptised Catholic and then going into the largest of the Pentecostal churches, the Assemblies of God. Nothing particularly extreme in the way of outreach ministries with AoG, no conversion by the sword philosophy. She is not out to convert you. And she has not acted in any way or advocated in any way to establish any form of theocracy.
In fact, based on her actual record in office, I think the only thing she did of a religious nature was to sign a proclamation for a week that designated as "Christian Heritage Week." Pretty mild and certainly not a lead in to theocracy.
Religion is kind of funny. If you are an adherent, you understand and appreciate faith. If you are not, you see those that do as being insane and irrational.
While I am no longer an atheist, neither am I part of any organized religion. I know many people who are, and they are of varying faiths (jewish, muslim, budhist, varying christians, wiccan, etc). For the most part they are rational and lucid beings. Many are much stronger for their faith, some are weaker from it. In general, no problem.
However, that doesn't mean that some people don't take it to batshit crazy lengths. The two aren't exclusive. I can fight for the individual right to relilgion, and respect those who embrace it reasonably, and still call a theocratic lunatic a theocratic lunatic when one pops up.
I've said this before. Having faith, for those that do, is an anchor and a touchstone. It helps you keep going, and it may guide you. It can be a good thing.
For some, being fervent atheist works the same way - they bash the religious as fools and feel saved by it. And they can be zealots as well. You only have to look at how the Communists were killing everyone that did not believe in the State religion of atheism.
As to Palin's ignorance, I highly value the life experience she has, though it is not the kind of experience you find in someone who is a lawyer or a favored son of the Kennedys. As a kid and a woman growing up in Alaska she learned to be what I like to call a "rugged individualist." This is no cookie cutter designation, she earned it and not too many people that I know in government or academia can brag of it.
She is ignorant. Period. I don't give a damn if she'd be a good fuck, or hunt better than I do, or enjoy a beer at the pub...a political leader needs to be intelligent and educated. Not street smart, that's for hoods and cops. EDUCATED AND INTELLIGENT. That's for a leader of nations. A president has to balance incredibly complex issues, and make decisions which are based on VERY technical and intellectually demanding information. There is NO ROOM for cognitive blandness in the oval office.
She was thrust onto the national stage from being a player only on the local and state levels. She had only days to come up to speed and then it was off on a seven day a week, 18 hours a day schedule of campaigning. Do you really think she is not spending a lot of her time now reading and learning, whether she chooses to run or not?
No, I don't, because she never has. What she is likely reading and studying is exactly what is required to make good talking points and get her elected. I doubt if she's taking ethics, philosophy, logic, and sociology classes at colleges to actually learn something.
If you are liberal, and I really don't know your politics, you should be concerned that the next time you see Palin run for office she is going to be a much more mature, experienced and self-directed candidate. If she runs, she will be a complete contrast to whomever she opposes.
I'm neither liberal nor conservative. The terms are meaningless bullshit talking and propaganda points. Politically I hold views that an average American would call both liberal and conservative. I oppose all parties in politics as I find them inherently corrupted and counter to democracy.
What I am worried about is she will have a staff that has prepped her, and trained her like a show dog, to perform adequately to convince the 85IQ fundamentalists out there to vote for her...while somehow managing to keep the GOP from fracturing under the strain of her extremism, leading to her picking up those votes as well...even though the actual republican base has nothing whatseover to do with the things she believes in.
If we did not see a civil war with Obama's election, we certainly won't see one with Palin's. Though the lefties talk tough, they have pretty much disarmed themselves anyway.
There are extreme differences there, but don't rule out revolution under Obama. If the healthcare mandate passes with no public, or non-profit mandate there will be blood in the streets. And that's only year 1. With 3 more to go, and anything but a stellar record, I'd say revolution under Obama is a very real possibility.
That being said, it would be even MORE likely under Palin. Obama is threatening our pocketbooks, and failing to meet campaign promises. Palin would be threatening our core national and individual identities...our ideology...in essence, our very souls. As a politician if you tell a vote you're going to limit his choice of healthcare he'll be irritated. If you tell him you're going to dictate policy based on your personal religious views he's going to take you out back and put two through your pan.
I suggest you reserve judgment and make your mind up in two or three years when we will know if she is actually going to run for office and evaluate what kind of a person she will be then.
...And save your bullets for deer or caribou.
No. And I'll tell you why. As much as it sucks, I'm not wrong very often, especially about this crap. I called Bush a year or two before the election. My predictions were more specific and accurate than Nostradamus and the Oracle at Delphi. I'm a scary judge of character and talent, and I'm telling you, Palin is an ignorant theocratic tool.
The only holding back I'll do is to wait and see what she runs for and when. But I'll keep calling her out on the facts until then.
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