Pakistan thinking about showing secret copter to China

[palehorse]

Are the idiots blaming Pakistan for being the "bad ally" drones? You invade our territory without telling us and then cry foul when we give your downed planes to our real ally? Pakistan should give everything to China and then tell the USA that they are not sorry.

You're just bitter that we killed your hero, friend, and neighbor.

What were his last instructions for you? Care to share?

 

[BeauJangles]

That's why nobody likes you. You waste billions of dollars on dogs while people in Africa starve to death.

So we should feel bad because we've been successful? Please. Americans give more money abroad than any other country in the world. We have more non-profits engaged in helping the third world than anywhere else, and our government spends billions of dollars on countries like yours.


What exactly has Pakistan done for Africa lately?

 

[Svnla]

No, we just stole 1/3 of our land from Mexico.

This isn't a game of she-loves-me-she-loves-me-not. Its a business arrangement and unless the US or China is willing to make them a partner in the business its to their best advantage to play the two off each other and get the best deal they can.

And Mexico stole it from Spain and Spain stole it from the natives and the natives stole it from....See, I can play that game too.

The point is no one is saying the US is perfect, heck, no country is. But the problem I have with TGB is he was bragging about how China is a "real" ally and Pakistan should give everything to China. I just want to point out from the creation of commie China in 1949, how it invaded and annexed not one, not two, not three but many sovereign countries (name another country with same or worse expansion record in the same time frame), and fought with very much with all of its neighbors. Pakistan is more than welcome to be one of China's invaded/annexed provinces.

 

[Sinsear]

What exactly has Pakistan done for Africa lately?

What has Pakistan ever done for anyone? Besides giving N Korea nuclear technology and harboring the worlds most wanted terrorist.

 

[busydude]

You waste billions of dollars on dogs while people in Africa starve to death.

The amount you just spent on a gaming PC.. will support an average sized family staying in Sub-Sahara for 1 year minimum. Do you like other people to call you a hypocrite?

 

[Schadenfroh]

But the problem I have with TGB is he was bragging about how China is a "real" ally and Pakistan should give everything to China. I just want to point out from the creation of commie China in 1949, how it invaded and annexed not one, not two, not three but many sovereign countries and fought with very much with all of its neighbors.

Not to mention, state atheism is not exactly compatible with Islam. Pakistan will have a Taliban or Iranian style Islamic Theocracy in a decade or so if things continue going the way they are. If that is what the people want, fine, not my place to interfere. But, I really doubt that China will want to deal with a radical Islamic state, especially if the Muslims currently being oppressed within China's borders begin to seek more rights, freedoms and possibly... independence from the Communists.

 

[wuliheron]

And Mexico stole it from Spain and Spain stole it from the natives and the natives stole it from....See, I can play that game too.

The point is no one is saying the US is perfect, heck, no country is. But the problem I have with TGB is he was bragging about how China is a "real" ally and Pakistan should give everything to China. I just want to point out from the creation of commie China in 1949, how it invaded and annexed not one, not two, not three but many sovereign countries and fought with very much with all of its neighbors.

Well.... he's kinda right. The Chinese don't like Muslims and converting them all into good atheist commies is a hopeless cause. Not only that, but the whole country is riddled with terrorists who would then give the Chinese no end of grief. Talk about your poison pills.

Still, the Chinese don't want anyone else moving into Pakistan either making them their strongest allies. If India or the US ever tried to take the place the Chinese would jump right into the fray. That leaves the Pakistanis free to keep giving India no end of grief, provide a home for countless terrorists who all hate the west, and still collect money and tech from the US. Beaver Clever it ain't, but they do the best they can with a bad situation.

 

[Lemon law]

You're just bitter that we killed your hero, friend, and neighbor.

What were his last instructions for you? Care to share?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Please Paleshorse, don't be absurd, if you ever bothered to read the position of TGB, he is angry at OBL, does not like the Taliban, does not like Nato and the US, simply because his position has one common denominator. TGB wants only Pakistani Sovereignty free of foreign domination or influence. In short what everyone wants for their country.

We in the USA would get really angry, if some foreign government was running around assassinating people on US soil?

And the other thing to Note, and it may open old quarrels, but by in large, the Nato and US operation in Afghanistan, was conducted in a totally incompetent manner. And rather than put the blame on Nato tactics, lack of resources, demanding improvements, we make Pakistan into the only scapegoat. And in 2014 when Nato finally gives up defeated, its Pakistan that is going to be left with trying to fix the damages.

 

[chucky2]

I wonder how much of an impediment the mountain regions would be for a Chinese army 30-70 years in the future, with large modern rail put in ahead of time by the Chinese (purely for trade purposes of course)....

 

[routan]

Above is the quote of yours that started the number crunching. I have highlighted the actual statement that I took offense to.

the word tens is used - to me that means multiples of 10. at a minimum 20 thousand.

Yet your link should less than 2300. Drone attacks have been going on for less than 10 years.

Averaging out - according to the Wiki numbers, that is 230 people per year. And according to the Pakistani military at least half of those are militants.

Now when you take your statement - you are off by a factor of 10 to 20. That type of number inflating is the problem. It is spewed across the boards and picked up as the truth by those that will not analyze are such numbers reasonable - they accept such at face value.

You are discrediting the fact by indulging in a semantical argument.

I stated "the fact is thousands, if not tens of thousands...". The fact remains, and was proven by you, that thousands HAVE died in drone attacks. Any attempt to argue that is just reducing the merits of my post into a semantic juggling act. I feel idiotic in participating in this argument which leads to no conclusion, except going back and confirming what I originally stated as fact.

 

[Craig234]

Americans give more money abroad than any other country in the world. We have more non-profits engaged in helping the third world than anywhere else, and our government spends billions of dollars on countries like yours.

This is an old myth that gets repeated. The confusion largely comes from the wealth gap, so it matters whether you look at absolute dollars, or share of the economy.

The US is a much wealthier nation than others; and it ends up that its gifts in absolute dollars are large, but as a share of the economy are smaller than others.

Here's a link to an article a few years old but I doubt it's changed much.

http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=2676

It doesn't even get into how much of our aid is military, is often used for repression; is require to be spent with US defense companies, etc.

Just looking at charity, it mentions a study of the world's 22 wealthiest nations, our giving as a share of the economy was in last place the year before, then up to 21st.

However, as you simply say we're 'the most generous', it also mentions a poll taken earlier showing Americans THOUGHT the federal budget's share for foreign aid was 20%. That's a huge number, affecting statements like how 'we're the most generous', and the politics of aid. In fact the figure was 1%.

And were the recipients the poor? The top two recipients of aid have long been Israel and Egypt (under Mubarak) - serving our power interests more than 'charity'.

The US gave $350 million in Tsunami relief, fitting the 'largest in dollars, not in share of the economy' pattern - but that was after a lot of pressure over the first $15M offer.

It mentions how a country like Norway gives much less than the US in dollars - with 2% of the US GDP; but that it gives 0.96 of its economy, above the UN recommendation for countries of 0.7%, while the US has never come close to the 0.7% figure, and they give five times as much as Americans per person.

 

[Craig234]

You are discrediting the fact by indulging in a semantical argument.

I stated "the fact is thousands, if not tens of thousands...". The fact remains, and was proven by you, that thousands HAVE died in drone attacks. Any attempt to argue that is just reducing the merits of my post into a semantic juggling act. I feel idiotic in participating in this argument which leads to no conclusion, except going back and confirming what I originally stated as fact.

The fact is, thousands, if not billions, have been killed by drone attacks.

Routan, if there is no basis at all for the 'tens of thousands' possibility, if it's clearly false, it's worth criticizing its inclusion - and inferring that you might not have a good understanding of the facts because you think it is possible. It's not a semantic argument, it's a fair one on the substance - you gave him the ammunition for it.

You can criticize him for ONLY concentrating on the issue of your 'if not tens of thousands' phrase while pretending that the 'mere' thousands are so small as not worth worrying about, but your response on the issue of that phrase IMO is not reasonable - unless you can offer any evidence that there's some reasonable chance - I'd take 10%, maybe even less, but not effectively zero - that it's correct, you should acknowledge the phrase was an error and move on to discussing the real number.

On the other hand, his knowledge of the English language is wrong when it comes to numbers.

One might think, as he says, that "tens of thousands" means at least 20 thousand, because tens of thousand is plural, meaning at least two of 'ten thousand', but that's not the accepted definition. In fact, "hundreds" starts at 101, "thousands" starts at 1001, and "tens of thousands" would start at 10,001.

 

[tvarad]

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
......And in 2014 when Nato finally gives up defeated, its Pakistan that is going to be left with trying to fix the damages.

It would have been a defeat only if bin Laden hadn't been bagged. Now that it's clear that the CIA's network in Af-Pak doesn't need the beloved patriot-army and the ISI to p*mp for them, it's only a matter of time before the likes of Al-Zawahiri and Mullah Omar's heads are put on pikes. Nato can walk out tomorrow if it decides to. The last decade was Pakistan's best chance to clean house with U.S. help; too bad it can't cry Al-Qaeda wolf anymore and expect the manna to rain down from Washington.

 

[Craig234]

The amount you just spent on a gaming PC.. will support an average sized family staying in Sub-Sahara for 1 year minimum. Do you like other people to call you a hypocrite?

Sorry, but people are entitled to spend on essentials like food, medicine, and gaming PCs.

 

[cirrrocco]

well, i guess this is a fight between you and the other indian. make up your mind, India wants/does not want Pakistan to prosper.

if it walks like a TSP supporter , Quacks like a TSP supporter, then it is a beloved patriot terrorist.

Only Pakistanis from the terrorist state of Pakistan use the word Hindu. Pakis cannot comprehend secular countries where laws trump religion. I bet he would go into a rage if I say I shat on a koran and say piss be upon him.

*TSP = Terrorist state of Pakistan [the only country in this world , which is owned by a Army]

 

[werepossum]

The fact is, thousands, if not billions, have been killed by drone attacks.

Routan, if there is no basis at all for the 'tens of thousands' possibility, if it's clearly false, it's worth criticizing its inclusion - and inferring that you might not have a good understanding of the facts because you think it is possible. It's not a semantic argument, it's a fair one on the substance - you gave him the ammunition for it.

You can criticize him for ONLY concentrating on the issue of your 'if not tens of thousands' phrase while pretending that the 'mere' thousands are so small as not worth worrying about, but your response on the issue of that phrase IMO is not reasonable - unless you can offer any evidence that there's some reasonable chance - I'd take 10%, maybe even less, but not effectively zero - that it's correct, you should acknowledge the phrase was an error and move on to discussing the real number.

On the other hand, his knowledge of the English language is wrong when it comes to numbers.

One might think, as he says, that "tens of thousands" means at least 20 thousand, because tens of thousand is plural, meaning at least two of 'ten thousand', but that's not the accepted definition. In fact, "hundreds" starts at 101, "thousands" starts at 1001, and "tens of thousands" would start at 10,001.

Quoted so that all can enjoy the massive stupidity. Perhaps the voices in Craig's head will even tell us which of the approximately six billion humans have been killed by drone attacks.

A billion is a quantity; billions means at least two of that quantity. By your statement, roughly one person in three across the whole Earth has been killed by drone attack. Even by your weasel definition, one person in six has died in drone attacks. One person in six of the whole freakin' Earth.

 

[cirrrocco]

Also in the same article:



Farhat Taj is a research fellow at the Centre for Interdisciplinary Gender Research, University of Oslo, but her "research" on drone warfare must get precedence

Farhan Taj has a lot of ears in the region. Read the paper. She says that people like that the american are droning the terrorist bastards [like the new word droning] and they support the americans for that.

Gender research entails working with locals or do you think that gender research means just spouting off on a tech board and then passing it off a fact [fart]

What we always see in Pakistan in tons of fake bearded mullahs tramping and burning american flags and we never see/ hear what the women think of the whole drone attacks.

Farhan Taj is able to bring to the fore what people really think of the taliban / al qaeda goat fuckers getting smacked down by the drones

 

[dabuddha]

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Please Paleshorse, don't be absurd, if you ever bothered to read the position of TGB, he is angry at OBL, does not like the Taliban, does not like Nato and the US, simply because his position has one common denominator. TGB wants only Pakistani Sovereignty free of foreign domination or influence. In short what everyone wants for their country.

We in the USA would get really angry, if some foreign government was running around assassinating people on US soil?

And the other thing to Note, and it may open old quarrels, but by in large, the Nato and US operation in Afghanistan, was conducted in a totally incompetent manner. And rather than put the blame on Nato tactics, lack of resources, demanding improvements, we make Pakistan into the only scapegoat. And in 2014 when Nato finally gives up defeated, its Pakistan that is going to be left with trying to fix the damages.

If Hitler was hiding out next to west point and the Canadian Seals (I know!) came flying in, assassinated the piece of shit, and flew back out, I'd be grateful. And I'd be embarrassed at how incompetent we were letting the world's most hated war criminal hide next door to one of our military academies. And I'd be highly suspicious of our government for pretending to now know about it.

As far as Pakistan trying to fix the damages, it was already a shithole before the war. That's what you get when you support mass murderers and terrorist groups.

 

[Craig234]

And Mexico stole it from Spain and Spain stole it from the natives and the natives stole it from....See, I can play that game too.

And so if the Taliban stole that 1/3 of the US, you would have no grounds to complain?

The point is no one is saying the US is perfect, heck, no country is.

In fact, any wrong by any nation should just be dismissed as 'not perfect'?

Short of taking 100% of a nation and killing all inhabitants, is there a much more serious wrong than aggressively stealing 1/3 of a nation by a war you start?

Maybe we should ask Ulysses Grant, who fought in it:

"I was bitterly opposed to the measure, and to this day, regard the war, which resulted, as one of the most unjust ever waged by a stronger against a weaker nation."

Maybe we should ask Abraham Lincoln, who was one of the leaders in Congress against the war as wrong.

Maybe we should recall that the war was the cause behind Henry David Thoreau's famous act and book, taught to schoolchildren ever since largely unlike the history of the leaders' above opposition, about not paying his taxes as civil disobedience, saying it was better to go to jail for civil disobedience than to be part of paying for a wrongful war.

Nah, all those people should not have stood up for any morality on war and just said any wrongful war is just 'no country is perfect' and not opposed it.

Indeed, we should have no sympathy or praise for Germans or Japanese or Italians who opposed their countries' starting WWII. No nation is perfect.

 

[fskimospy]

if it walks like a TSP supporter , Quacks like a TSP supporter, then it is a beloved patriot terrorist.

Only Pakistanis from the terrorist state of Pakistan use the word Hindu. Pakis cannot comprehend secular countries where laws trump religion. I bet he would go into a rage if I say I shat on a koran and say piss be upon him.

*TSP = Terrorist state of Pakistan [the only country in this world , which is owned by a Army]

Uhmm, even if it were true, Pakistan is nowhere near the only country in the world owned by an Army.

The term 'beloved patriot' is also a racial slur, so I'm glad to see you're keeping it classy.

 

[cirrrocco]

What has Pakistan ever done for anyone? Besides giving N Korea nuclear technology and harboring the worlds most wanted terrorist.

I think you are underselling Pakistanis. You forget that they are the biggest IT exporters in the world. They have specialized programs with Phd and MS programs in IT

Other exports include

*Chinese CICH4 weapon design exported to Libya / N Korea
*Funding the missiles of N Korea
*Fomenting terrorism in Afghanistan / India /
*Paint ball jihadists in Virginia
*London is called Londonistan because of all the Pakistani terrorists sitting there and collecting funds
* London Train Bombs
* The army pimps itself to various sheiks and runs security and gets even more radicalised
* Exports American cruise missile technology to China. F-16 tech already incorporated in the J-10.

*IT = International terrorism

 

[actuarial]

Quoted so that all can enjoy the massive stupidity. Perhaps the voices in Craig's head will even tell us which of the approximately six billion humans have been killed by drone attacks.

A billion is a quantity; billions means at least two of that quantity. By your statement, roughly one person in three across the whole Earth has been killed by drone attack. Even by your weasel definition, one person in six has died in drone attacks. One person in six of the whole freakin' Earth.

Quoted so all can enjoy the complete lack of detecting sarcasm.

 

[cirrrocco]

Uhmm, even if it were true, Pakistan is nowhere near the only country in the world owned by an Army.

The term 'beloved patriot' is also a racial slur, so I'm glad to see you're keeping it classy.

Sorry I did not realize it was a racial slur. I see a lot of people using it in the thread and i was tired of typing "Pakistanis"

haha..

Also it is the only country in the world that has been owned by the army for most of its post independence life. I believe in the last 60 years, civilians were in real control only for about 7 years. which other country can even come close to that.

 

[Craig234]

If Hitler was hiding out next to west point and the Canadian Seals (I know!) came flying in, assassinated the piece of shit, and flew back out, I'd be grateful.

And if a terrorist who blew up a civilian passenger airliner, set off at least dozens of bombs killing civilians, attempted to assassinate a president, were living openly in the US, and the nations whose people he had killed came into the US and killed him, you would be grateful too, right?

Because that's the case - but I haven't seen you call for his assassination, as info was laid out in another thread (google 'padilla terrorist', he's one of a number.

In fact, we sponsor a whole COMMUNITY of terrorists, largely turning a blind eye (sometimes arresting some, but Pakistan has arrested many Al Queda) - including our President's son, Jeb Bush, building his career to be governor of a state by pandering to these terrorists, indeed asking his father for and receiving a PARDON for Padilla (after which, yes, he became governor - and ended up helping his brother steal the presidency, such as illegally disenfranchising tens of thousands of Democratic voters).

But funny thing, we are not consistent about this 'go kill the terrorist' thing.

 

[Craig234]

Quoted so all can enjoy the complete lack of detecting sarcasm.

Thank you, Actuarial. I have a low bar for some posters, but I'm surprised anyone did not understand the point I was making, in showing how that's a *wrong* thing to say.