Pakistan thinking about showing secret copter to China

[dabuddha]

So you're for foreign countries killing thousands of Americans on US soil, to get to the terrorists we harbor?

Which terrorists do we harbor?

 

[EagleKeeper]

See for your self. Drone attacks killed 3x more civilians then terrorists.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drone_attacks_in_Pakistan
About 2k+ civils died.

This has already been discussed.

1) The number is from s US think tank; not boots on the ground.

2) Pakistani military estimates that at least half are not civilian.

3) Causalities happen when you invite a target into ones home. Such is known in advance. Why do militants feel that they should be exempt from being targeted when hiding around civilians?

If left alone; they will end up killing more that the collateral deaths. But that apparently is of no consequence.

 

[EagleKeeper]

So you're for foreign countries killing thousands of Americans on US soil, to get to the terrorists we harbor?

You have no problem allowing terrorist to be roaming around because it is not politically acceptable to exterminate them.

They will kill again and they target civilians as well vs collateral damage.

 

[tvarad]

So, the 2K+ number means we've done more killing of Pakistan's civilians than Al Queda did to the US on 9/11, proportional to population.

One of the oldest tricks in the book for a greater power to use for aggression is to use a 'threat' from its target to justify the aggressive violence.

At some point, 9/11 isn't an excuse for conquering the globe.

Dude, the Pakistani army has so much blood on it's hands it will make whatever collateral damage the U.S. inflicts in it's hunt for the criminals who instigated 9/11 and are causing mayhem in Afghanistan, look like a couple of cuts in a street-fight. Read up on the millions who were killed and the millions who were made homeless in Bangladesh in 1971. The criminals Yahya Khan and Tikka Khan in charge then should have been subjected to Nuremberg type trials and hanged, yet they lived and died peacefully in old age. So, under the circumstance, Pakistani leaders whining about collateral damage when the U.S. is going after the islamo-thugs who are responsible for killing so many innocents in homicide bombings, let alone NATO troops, is laughable.

As well, when the Pakistanis reserve the right to send islamo-thugs across the border into India and Afghanistan and even far-off places like the U.S. (the Times Square homicide bomber was the son of a Pakistani air-force officer) to kill and murder, they shouldn't complain when it's paid back with the same coin.

 

[Lemon law]

Where did this absurd notion come freom that Pakistan ever promised to be a Nato ally.

All Pakistan ever promised was to rent a land based supply line into Afghanistan.
And Nato was supposed to promptly fix the Taliban's wagon, but sent only a small fraction of the troops needed to do the job. And now the Taliban have the run of Afghanistan plus the Tribal areas of Pakistan. And because the Taliban look just like the Native people, even the Pakistani army can't tell them apart.

As for drone attacks being legal if the Taliban takes shelter with innocent people, its defined as a war crime. It is something we would never permit on US soil.

 

[tvarad]

Where did this absurd notion come freom that Pakistan ever promised to be a Nato ally.

All Pakistan ever promised was to rent a land based supply line into Afghanistan.
And Nato was supposed to promptly fix the Taliban's wagon, but sent only a small fraction of the troops needed to do the job. And now the Taliban have the run of Afghanistan plus the Tribal areas of Pakistan. And because the Taliban look just like the Native people, even the Pakistani army can't tell them apart.

As for drone attacks being legal if the Taliban takes shelter with innocent people, its defined as a war crime. It is something we would never permit on US soil.

Lemon Law,
Can you please share with us the name of the supplier of the stuff you smoke? Man, it must be good if you can come up with gems of argument like these.

 

[werepossum]

Lemon Law,
Can you please share with us the name of the supplier of the stuff you smoke? Man, it must be good if you can come up with gems of argument like these.

I'm guessing Sandos Laboratories. Probably the West Bank branch . . .

 

[routan]

'Indian/Hindu inferiority complex'? LOL..

Indians gave 1/3 of their land to ungrateful vermin who refused to coexist. Indians/Hindus could give two shits about Muslims who have destroyed everything in their wake and constantly prod India.

Pakistan was created out of hatred for India (as was Bangladesh). Pakistan, the land, will be repatriated to India. All vermin who don't like India, whether inside or outside can GTFO.

And, what does skin color have anything to do with this topic? There are many so-called Indians who are virulently anti-Indian. Most of them are Muslims but there are some 'Hindus', mainly Marxists and communists, among their cadres.

Pakistan and Bangladesh are never "independent". They are beggars that suck the dick of China and the US/UK.

Pakistan and Bangladesh, along with that shit-hole Saudi Arabia, are countries nobody wants to visit. India is one of the most visited places on the planet.

And, Kashmir was always an integral part of India. Too bad the madrassa you studied in didn't teach you that instead of justifying torture and violence against non-Muslims.

Another example of the inferiority complex.

India didnt give land to anyone. The British motherland created India and Pakistan. Before that, the entire land was ruled over by minority Muslims, i.e. the Mughals. Hundreds of years of subjugation by some party or another has filled the Indians/Hindus with hatred.

This is also obvious by your comments about Muslims, who form roughly 20% of India's population. Didnt the nutbag Hindus of India tear down a mosque, kill thousands of people in Gujrat? Seems like you have a lot of homegrown problem, some which you even cite, i.e. Marxists, Communist and all.

India as it is today has only existed for roughly 60 years.

At the minimum, at least speak out of fact, and not nonsense.

 

[routan]

Just to end this thread, it is now confirmed that Pakistan will be returning the tail to our government.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503543_162-20063339-503543.html

Kudos to our "ally"... more like our puppet, lol

 

[routan]

dp

 

[chucky2]

Chinese and/or Russians and/or Iranians have finally got done with the quick examination, why not send it back?

 

[routan]

Dude, the Pakistani army has so much blood on it's hands it will make whatever collateral damage the U.S. inflicts in it's hunt for the criminals who instigated 9/11 and are causing mayhem in Afghanistan, look like a couple of cuts in a street-fight. Read up on the millions who were killed and the millions who were made homeless in Bangladesh in 1971. The criminals Yahya Khan and Tikka Khan in charge then should have been subjected to Nuremberg type trials and hanged, yet they lived and died peacefully in old age. So, under the circumstance, Pakistani leaders whining about collateral damage when the U.S. is going after the islamo-thugs who are responsible for killing so many innocents in homicide bombings, let alone NATO troops, is laughable.

As well, when the Pakistanis reserve the right to send islamo-thugs across the border into India and Afghanistan and even far-off places like the U.S. (the Times Square homicide bomber was the son of a Pakistani air-force officer) to kill and murder, they shouldn't complain when it's paid back with the same coin.

wow, another beyond ridiculous post, another example of the inferiority complex of the whacked out indians/hindus.

Everything wrong in India is pointed to their neighbors. I suppose the entire ISI is also embedded in North-East India where there is quite an insurgency. Just between 1992 and 2000, 599 civilians, 235 security forces, and 862 terrorists have lost their lives in just Nagaland.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_India

Seven states out of twenty-eight... seems like almost a fourth of India doesnt even want to be with India

 

[werepossum]

Just to end this thread, it is now confirmed that Pakistan will be returning the tail to our government.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503543_162-20063339-503543.html

Kudos to our "ally"... more like our puppet, lol

Glad to hear we had the winning bid. I mean, um, just another friendly action in a relationship spanning more than half a century.

wow, another beyond ridiculous post, another example of the inferiority complex of the whacked out indians/hindus.

Everything wrong in India is pointed to their neighbors. I suppose the entire ISI is also embedded in North-East India where there is quite an insurgency. Just between 1992 and 2000, 599 civilians, 235 security forces, and 862 terrorists have lost their lives in just Nagaland.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_India

Seven states out of twenty-eight... seems like almost a fourth of India doesnt even want to be with India

Good point, Communists are as violent and as wedded to terrorism as are Muslims.

What? That was your point, wasn't it?

 

[Lemon law]

Its one think to recover the tail, but its my understanding the radar evading skin was largely hauled off by local civilians as souvenirs of the raid.

Its basic military 101, if you have a top secret weapon, don't use it in actual use or allow it to crash, because every Country in the world will rapidly copy the technology as a direct result.

So doing what we do now is about as effective as closing the barn door after the horses escaped.

 

[The Green Bean]

So we should feel bad because we've been successful? Please. Americans give more money abroad than any other country in the world. We have more non-profits engaged in helping the third world than anywhere else, and our government spends billions of dollars on countries like yours.


What exactly has Pakistan done for Africa lately?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_peacekeeping_missions_involving_Pakistan

Current deployment exceeds 10,000. They're keeping peace while your troops are on murdering sprees across multiple countries.

 

[K1052]

Its basic military 101, if you have a top secret weapon, don't use it in actual use or allow it to crash, because every Country in the world will rapidly copy the technology as a direct result.

What use is a radar evading chopper if you never actually intend on using it to evade a fucking radar, yet paid handsomely to develop it anyway?

 

[Craig234]

Dude, the Pakistani army has so much blood on it's hands it will make whatever collateral damage the U.S. inflicts in it's hunt for the criminals who instigated 9/11 and are causing mayhem in Afghanistan, look like a couple of cuts in a street-fight. Read up on the millions who were killed and the millions who were made homeless in Bangladesh in 1971. The criminals Yahya Khan and Tikka Khan in charge then should have been subjected to Nuremberg type trials and hanged, yet they lived and died peacefully in old age. So, under the circumstance, Pakistani leaders whining about collateral damage when the U.S. is going after the islamo-thugs who are responsible for killing so many innocents in homicide bombings, let alone NATO troops, is laughable.

As well, when the Pakistanis reserve the right to send islamo-thugs across the border into India and Afghanistan and even far-off places like the U.S. (the Times Square homicide bomber was the son of a Pakistani air-force officer) to kill and murder, they shouldn't complain when it's paid back with the same coin.

First, ya, massive killing was done - in the 1970's, from Wiki:

Beginning with the start of Operation Searchlight on 25 March 1971 and continuing throughout the Bangladesh Liberation War, there were widespread violations of human rights in East Pakistan (now Bangladesh) perpetrated by the Pakistan Army with support from local political and religious militias. Time reported a high U.S. official as saying "It is the most incredible, calculated thing since the days of the Nazis in Poland."[1]

Bangladeshi authorities claim that 3 million people were killed,[2] while the Hamoodur Rahman Commission, an official Pakistan Government investigation, put the figure as low as 26,000 civilian casualties.[3] The international media and reference books in English have also published figures which vary greatly from 200,000 to 3,000,000 for Bangladesh as a whole.[2] A further eight to ten million people fled the country to seek safety in India.[4]

Many of the murdered intellectuals were victims of the collaborators within the West Pakistan Army: Razakars, Al-Shams and Al-Badr forces,[5] at the instruction of the Pakistani Army.[6] There are many mass graves in Bangladesh, and more are continually being discovered (such as one in an old well near a mosque in Dhaka, located in the non-Bengali region of the city, which was discovered in August 1999).[7] The first night of war on Bengalis, which is documented in telegrams from the American Consulate in Dhaka to the United States State Department, saw indiscriminate killings of students of Dhaka University and other civilians.[8]

Numerous women were raped, tortured and killed during the war. The exact numbers are not known and are a subject of debate with some sources quoting figures as high as 400,000. One of the more horrible revelations concerns 563 young Bengali women, some only 18, who were held captive inside Dhaka's dingy military cantonment since the first days of the fighting. They were seized from Dhaka University and private homes and forced into military brothels, with some of the women carrying war babies being released.[9]

There was significant sectarian violence not only perpetrated by the West Pakistani army,[10] but also by Bengali nationalists against non-Bengali minorities, especially Biharis...

Every major publication and newspaper in Bangladesh and some international publications on genocide and human rights abuses use the term genocide to describe the event.

Second, though, you argue that somehow this justifies the US killing civilians.

You sound basically just filled with hate justifying the killing of civilians in the group you hate.

It sounds partly like a terrible genocide, partly a 'cycle of violence', for example:

In 1947, at the time of partition, Bihari Muslims, many of whom were fleeing the violence that took place during partition, fled to the newly independent East Pakistan.

This Urdu speaking people held a disproportionate number in the new country's population. Biharis were adverse to the Bengali language movement and the subsequent nationalist movements as they maintained allegiance toward West Pakistani rulers.

Between December 1970 and March 1971, Bengali nationalists subjected non-Bengali minorities, especially Biharis, to systematic persecution. It is estimated that between 15,000 and 50,000 Biharis were killed during this period, and is believed by some that elements of the Mukti Bahini, with active support from the BSF and Indian intelligence, either led or failed to stop the violence against the Biharis.[11] When the war broke out in 1971, the Biharis sided with the Pakistan army. Some of them joined Razakar and Al-Shams militia groups and participated in the persecution and genocide of their Bengali countrymen including the widespread looting of Bengali properties and abetting in other criminal activities against them.

Hard to see how genocide in the 1970's justifies killing civilians today.

Should we take it back further to the massive violence done by, say, the British against these colonies justifying the London subway attack or more killing people in England?

You need a better argument than 'they have blood on their hands' on this.

The Germans had a lot more blood on their hands in 1945 than these Pakistanis, but I don't condone the mass rape of German women by the Soviet troops that followed.

 

[Svnla]

......
Thousands of years of crap you mean. China's always been a powerhouse .....

Since you made such ignorant statements so I will bite. Give us some neutral unbiased sources to dispute what I said so far in this thread about the history of China and how it has a long proven history of invaded/annexed its neighbors. No you may not use Xinhua or People Daily as sources. Wiki is acceptable in this case.

China's always been a powerhouse? Oh really, do tell us how China fought with a competent military force from a much smaller nation such as Mongolia, Manchuria, Britain, Japan or the little adventure against Vietnam in 1979. What were the results? One more thing, do you know how many Chinese live in absolute poverty? Yup, very powerhouse right there. <chuckling>

 

[wuliheron]

China's always been a powerhouse? Oh really, do tell us how China fought with a competent military force from a much smaller nation such as Mongolia, Manchuria, Britain, Japan or the little adventure against Vietnam in 1979. What were the results?

They certainly haven't been a powerhouse in the industrial revolution and a hundred years of the communist party didn't help matters, but they're making up for lost time now.

Before that about the only time the Mongols ever invaded China was when they were starving to death. Not exactly an indication of how weak China was. Kubla Khan became emperor of China, but it still went back to being a separate nation like it always has because the territory is just too hard to hold onto. Now horses and starving peasants aren't enough anymore and China owns Mongolia for the foreseeable future.

The real question remaining is how will their water shortage impact things. They have all the resources required to be a superpower, but their population is too high and they're running out of water. It could either mean the end of China as a world power, or a chance to reinvent themselves for the fourth time. That's what I mean by they've always been a powerhouse. They take a licking and keep on ticking and have for six thousand years. That's the big picture that makes the 200 years of US history look like a flash in the pan.

 

[Svnla]

They certainly haven't been a powerhouse in the industrial revolution and a hundred years of the communist party didn't help matters, but they're making up for lost time now.

Before that about the only time the Mongols ever invaded China was when they were starving to death. Not exactly an indication of how weak China was. Kubla Khan became emperor of China, but it still went back to being a separate nation like it always has because the territory is just too hard to hold onto. Now horses and starving peasants aren't enough anymore and China owns Mongolia for the foreseeable future.

The real question remaining is how will their water shortage impact things. They have all the resources required to be a superpower, but their population is too high and they're running out of water. It could either mean the end of China as a world power, or a chance to reinvent themselves for the fourth time. That's what I mean by they've always been a powerhouse. They take a licking and keep on ticking and have for six thousand years. That's the big picture that makes the 200 years of US history look like a flash in the pan.

Then you should use the word "resilience" instead of the bragging word "powerhouse". Besides Mongolia, Machuria won, Britain won, Japan won....and they were much smaller than China. Heck, China couldn't even swallow little tiny Vietnam for good (BTW, the same little Vietnam beat the fearsome Mongolia hordes not one, not two, but three times)...for the last few thousands years and they tried and tried and tried.

Still waiting for you to bring neutral sources to dispute my previous posts in this thread about several thousands years of history/China behavior toward its smaller neighbors that you called "crap".

 

[wuliheron]

Then you should use the word "resilience" instead of the bragging word "powerhouse". Besides Mongolia, Machuria won, Britain won, Japan won....and they were much smaller than China. Heck, China couldn't even swallow little tiny Vietnam for good (BTW, the same little Vietnam beat the fearsome Mongolia hordes not one, not two, but three times)...for the last few thousands years and they tried and tried and tried.

Still waiting for you to bring neutral sources to dispute my previous posts in this thread about several thousands years of history/China behavior toward its smaller neighbors that you called "crap".

You can't have it both ways. Either they're wimps or conquerors. If this is Zen koan or something give me a hint.

The same thing goes for your attempt to split semantic hairs over "powerhouse" and "resilience". Europe and Russia repeatedly had their asses handed to them by the Mongols, but that doesn't mean they're merely "resilient". They're powerhouses just like China that occasionally manage to give everybody around them a hard time and nobody has managed to keep down forever.

 

[Svnla]

......The same thing goes for your attempt to split semantic hairs over "powerhouse" and "resilience". Europe and Russia repeatedly had their asses handed to them by the Mongols, but that doesn't mean they're merely "resilient". They're powerhouses just like China that occasionally manage to give everybody around them a hard time and nobody has managed to keep down forever.

No, you were the one that made bragging and ignorant statements like this

....China's always been a powerhouse.....

and I pointed out that was not true and then you backpaddled......

and now you made another ignorant statement.... that China occasionally manage to give everybody around them a hard time? Do you know or learn anything about Southeast Asia history? Anything at all? Obviously you did not or you would not say bullcraps like that.

How about you google "history of Vietnam" and "history of Korea" and see how China tried and tried and tried to invade/annexed those two countries throughout their history. Then you can google "Inner Mongolia", "Xinjiang", "Tibet" just to name a few, to see how commie China blatantly invaded and annexed those sovereign countries. Name a country that behaving such as China from 1949 to present time, I am waiting.

Here is how China behaving with smaller neighbors = http://the-diplomat.com/china-power/2010/09/10/china-fishing-for-outrage/

Imagine US behaving like that in Gulf of Mexico or Italy in Mediterranean Sea.

You kept saying you are a baby boomer so you must be in your 40s at least yet your knowledge of history is pathetic.

One more thing, I am still waiting for your sources/links to back up your statement of

Thousands of years of crap you mean..

 

[wuliheron]

No, you were the one that made bragging and ignorant statements like this

and I pointed out that was not true and then you backpaddled......

and now you made another ignorant statement.... that China occasionally manage to give everybody around them a hard time? Do you know or learn anything about Southeast Asia history? Anything at all? Obviously you did not or you would not say bullcraps like that.

How about you google "history of Vietnam" and "history of Korea" and see how China tried and tried and tried to invade/annexed those two countries throughout their history. Then you can google "Inner Mongolia", "Xinjiang", "Tibet" just to name a few, to see how commie China blatantly invaded and annexed those sovereign countries. Name a country that behaving such as China from 1949 to present time, I am waiting.

What a joke. The US has been involved in so many wars since 1949 I can't even keep track of them all. We haven't needed to actually invade countries and take them over when we can use imperialism to get what we want. Hell, we even threatened to bomb poor little Haiti back to the stone age because they elected a damn socialist president.

The only reason we haven't invaded Mexico and South America is we've got better things to do with our time and money.

Here is how China behaving with smaller neighbors = http://the-diplomat.com/china-power/2010/09/10/china-fishing-for-outrage/

Imagine US behaving like that in Gulf of Mexico or Italy in Mediterranean Sea.

You kept saying you are a baby boomer so you must be in your 40s at least yet your knowledge of history is pathetic.

One more thing, I am still waiting for your sources/links to back up your statement of

You can wait till the crows fly home asshole. You can demand a new car and a million bucks while you're at it and see how far it gets you. You don't answer my questions, so I see little point in answering yours unless I feel like it.

Korea, invaded by everyone. Vietnam, invaded by everyone. The world is just a nasty place unless you haven't noticed it yet with everyone and their brother looking for who they can invade or otherwise exploit next. The only thing that brings any real order to the chaos is when empires like the US force all the little guys to behave.

 

[Svnla]

You can wait till the crows fly home asshole. .....

Ah, can't provide links or sources to back up your ignorant and stupid statements, therefore, calling name.

Just like PC Surgeon said about you (Being intellectually dishonest or making claims you are unable to backup ), and you have been here for how long? Thanks for playing, troll. Pathetic.

 

[Lemon law]

Weliheron may have been on a roll until he said, "The only thing that brings any real order to the chaos is when empires like the US force all the little guys to behave."

What a dishonest and Absurd thing to say, when anyone who is honest realize most of the US track record has been to take regional conflicts and pump them up to far bigger problems. Sad to say as a US citizen, the USA does not give a damn about the people of Afghanistan, Pakistan, or India. All we care about is advancing a short sighted and untenable US foreign policy. That sadly backfires on the USA ever damn time.

Sad to say, the USA used to know how to make the world a better place, but we in the USA have been taking stupid pills ever since 1980.