Pakistan cuts off NATO supply routes

[Nebor]

Karzai has been engaging in peace talks with the Taliban for years. The US officially encourages and funds it. The problem is that the Taliban is now as decentralized as Al Qaeda. No one person can control or speak for the entire organization. And so we, and Karzai has given millions of dollars in "peace money" to people claiming to represent certain groups, who turned out to be nothing more than con men. *shrug*

 

[davmat787]

Let us all face the facts here, because it little matters if the Taliban uses Pakistan as a safe haven, because it means those set of Taliban can't cause trouble inside of Afghanistan.

Matters little? Not sure about that. What does it say about Pakistan that the Taliban finds safe harbor within that border?

 

[Lemon law]

Matters little? Not sure about that. What does it say about Pakistan that the Taliban finds safe harbor within that border?

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Your delusion Davemat is that Pakistan has total military control of its tribal regions. Its sort of like our wild west in 1860. A vast area and no troops to control it. Made even worse when Nato air power indiscriminately bombs women, children, houses and villages on both side of the border. Leaving the local people hopping mad at Nato and not at the Tliban who do not engage in that type of indiscriminate killing.

At the same time Nato has too few troops to police but a tiny percent of Afghan territory.
But since the Border between Afghanistan and Pakistan is just a line, it may have length, but still as a line, it does have that second dimension of width to make it a large number of square miles.

So Nato can effectively keep the Taliban from entering from Pakistan.

And then Nato then just scapegoat Pakistan for their Nato's own incompetence and inability to control their own border.

 

[chucky2]

I don't think NATO would have a problem if by some godly mandate, the Taliban would just stay on the Pakistani side of the border - I think many would consider that justice for the way Pakistan has behaved in regards to US/NATO and Afghanistan.

The problem US/NATO/Afghanistan has is when Pakistan helps AQ/Taliban against our forces, such as leaking intelligence we've got on them, stike details, actually firing on us, etc. That is far worse a pill to swallow than not being able to control an admitedly porus border.

You didn't answer my previous question to you btw...

 

[Lemon law]

I don't think NATO would have a problem if by some godly mandate, the Taliban would just stay on the Pakistani side of the border - I think many would consider that justice for the way Pakistan has behaved in regards to US/NATO and Afghanistan.

The problem US/NATO/Afghanistan has is when Pakistan helps AQ/Taliban against our forces, such as leaking intelligence we've got on them, stike details, actually firing on us, etc. That is far worse a pill to swallow than not being able to control an admitedly porus border.

You didn't answer my previous question to you btw...

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I am not sure what question you asked, but if you refer to my using the phrase Pakistan has a better idea? If so, point granted, I should have said a Pakistan had a different point of view.

But my observation is you seem to be proceeding on the assumption that Pakistan sold its self to the USA as it swore an undying oath to be a junior junior Nato partner. When in fact all Pakistan did is leased the Nato a land based supply route into Pakistan. Its not Pakistani job or part of any lease deal for Pakistan to fight the very Taliban Nato chased into Pakistan.

Maybe look at it this way. You are a landlord and you rent an apartment to Nato. Except Nato can't control his own children in his own apartment. So instead Nato thinks he can go into your apartment, next door buildings not owned by you, and public streets and indiscriminately drop bombs. And if you were such a landlord, the first thing anyone would do as the landlord would be to terminate the lease of Nato.

Then chucky2, you have the unmitigated gall to assume I am rooting for the Taliban when I am just explaining why the USA and Nato wears out its welcome as it fails to earn the help and support they need to win. Its all well and fine for you to believe your own propaganda,
but when you do that 10 year reality check disconnect, the only person the propaganda fools is you.

Its not hard to understand how other think, all you have to do is imagine you were in their shoes, and ask, if Nato treated me that way, how would you think?

 

[The Green Bean]

The Pakistanis have seized the American equipment that had been stranded. Apparently the Americans were trying to get it out of the country:

http://tribune.com.pk/story/314202/pakistan-rangers-seize-us-military-equipment/

 

[EagleKeeper]

The Pakistanis have seized the American equipment that had been stranded. Apparently the Americans were trying to get it out of the country:

http://tribune.com.pk/story/314202/pakistan-rangers-seize-us-military-equipment/

Pakistan Rangers have seized sensitive military equipment belonging to the US and Nato on security grounds

What security grounds - Pakistan's?

The storage yards have been shown to not be secure - supplies have been destroyed while being under control/protection of Pakistan.

Seems like the stuff is going to be held hostage/ransomed.
If the US is pulling out; Pakistan may want a last payoff before leverage is lost.

 

[Lemon law]

The Pakistanis have seized the American equipment that had been stranded. Apparently the Americans were trying to get it out of the country:

http://tribune.com.pk/story/314202/pakistan-rangers-seize-us-military-equipment/

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IMHO, probably a unwise move for Pakistan. Even if Pakistan is terminating their lease of a Pakistani supply route into Afghanistan, Pakistan has to give Nato a reasonable amount of time to remove their property.

But we all know journalists, they may have it wrong here, as maybe Pakistan is only taking steps to secure and safe guard Nato Property until a means can be found for Nato to remove their property from Pakistan. So maybe we must wait for clarification.

And then the side question comes up, since the alternate Nato supply route is a railroad link, rail roads are very vulnerable to terrorists attacks every inch of the way. And if terrorists can derail the train itself, it can take weeks to clean up the mess.

 

[Nebor]

The Pakistanis have seized the American equipment that had been stranded. Apparently the Americans were trying to get it out of the country:

http://tribune.com.pk/story/314202/pakistan-rangers-seize-us-military-equipment/

Who cares? It's less than $100m worth of military hardware and ammo. We'll use alternate routes from now on and Pakistan can go fuck itself.

Once we've formally terminated our relationship with Pakistan, expect a lot more of your soldiers to die on the border.

 

[The Green Bean]

Who cares? It's less than $100m worth of military hardware and ammo. We'll use alternate routes from now on and Pakistan can go fuck itself.

Once we've formally terminated our relationship with Pakistan, expect a lot more of your soldiers to die on the border.

So you expect to get away with killing our soldiers?

I think they have seized the supplies to prevent them from being attacked by a third party. It just makes me wonder why are anti-aircraft equipment being transported. I thought the Taliban did not have aircraft. I also thought only non-combat equipment was being transported through Pakistan.

This seizure also coincides with the courts unofficial verdict that the Pakistani ambassador to the USA was probably guilty of treason by sending a memo to Mullen telling him to reign in the Pakistani military.

Things have changed on the ground here too. The government is weak and the military and masses both want it out. The main opposition party said that they would never resume supplies. However, a new rising force, imran Khan wants nothing to do with thye USA. Will be an interesting few days.

Sent from my GT-P1000 using Tapatalk

 

[MotF Bane]

Yea, get the fuck out.

Until the next time you get a flood, earthquake, or who knows what, and come in here begging for American money.

 

[Nebor]

So you expect to get away with killing our soldiers?

I think they have seized the supplies to prevent them from being attacked by a third party. It just makes me wonder why are anti-aircraft equipment being transported. I thought the Taliban did not have aircraft. I also thought only non-combat equipment was being transported through Pakistan.

This seizure also coincides with the courts unofficial verdict that the Pakistani ambassador to the USA was probably guilty of treason by sending a memo to Mullen telling him to reign in the Pakistani military.

Things have changed on the ground here too. The government is weak and the military and masses both want it out. The main opposition party said that they would never resume supplies. However, a new rising force, imran Khan wants nothing to do with thye USA. Will be an interesting few days.

Sent from my GT-P1000 using Tapatalk

US combat equipment isn't being transported through Pakistan, it's too valuable and much of it too sensitive to be subjected to the high loss rates of Pakistani transport. The Air defense equipment is old soviet stuff that we've purchased (or has been donated by ISAF members) for the Afghan Air Defense Artillery Corps. Even the Pakistanis probably have better stuff than that.

 

[Lemon law]

Until the next time you get a flood, earthquake, or who knows what, and come in here begging for American money.

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You have a fine heaping helping of stinking thinking MotF Bame, as you try to politicize the arbitrary and capricious actions of Momma Nature. Who is usually kind, but can dump on the people of every nation on earth. Just a partial list of weapons in Momma natures arsenal are fires, floods earth quakes, Volcanoes, Pyroclastic flows, Tsunamis, famine, crop failures, global warming, and need I go on. Nor will the USA long remain immune, as we are due and overdue for major earth quakes on our West Coast.

Even if we hate the Government of North Korea, is no reason to hate the people of North Korea. And if the USA and other nations don't step up to the plate when Momma Nature deals a card off the bottom of the deck to any nation on earth, we lose an opportunity to repair past hostilities.

 

[Nebor]

Even if we hate the Government of North Korea, is no reason to hate the people of North Korea.

Wait just a second, this isn't like that at all. The government of Pakistan is pretty much ok. It's the people that we hate.

 

[The Green Bean]

Until the next time you get a flood, earthquake, or who knows what, and come in here begging for American money.

This is an international forum. There are many non-USA citizens here. We want to have as little to do with the meagre American alms that our government begs for as you do. The irony is in the fact that you call yourself a free country when I can't sell you my goods even thought they might be better and cheaper than those that you are forced to buy. The American empire is powered by their expansive capitalistic policies. In reality, it is you that is living off our share and not the other way round.

 

[The Green Bean]

Wait just a second, this isn't like that at all. The government of Pakistan is pretty much ok. It's the people that we hate.

Reading comments like yours earns the dead American soldiers no sympathy--one less scum bag to deal with.

 

[cybrsage]

The US helps nations during disasters because we have so much and most nations have so little. We SHOULD help them during times of need. Regardless of how hateful a nation is towards us, help during need should be given.

 

[Nebor]

Reading comments like yours earns the dead American soldiers no sympathy--one less scum bag to deal with.

We need your sympathy like we need your supply routes.

Here's to Musharraf, wish he was still keeping you savages in line. :thumbsup:

 

[The Green Bean]

We need your sympathy like we need your supply routes.

Here's to Musharraf, wish he was still keeping you savages in line. :thumbsup:

I have a feeling Musharraf is going to team up with Imran Khan (who is not too fond of America). Today while shopping around I overheard 5 men talking about their predictions for the next coming elections: they unanimously agreed on Imran Khan.

If Musharraf was here, he would have taken an even tougher stance against American savagery.

 

[Nebor]

I have a feeling Musharraf is going to team up with Imran Khan (who is not too fond of America). Today while shopping around I overheard 5 men talking about their predictions for the next coming elections: they unanimously agreed on Imran Khan.

If Musharraf was here, he would have taken an even tougher stance against American savagery.

Well, I'm glad we agree that Musharraf should still be running Pakistan.