Pakistan cuts off NATO supply routes

[The Green Bean]

Would that then be better for Pakistan?

You have borders that you have the ability to control and have gotten rid of the "red-headed step child" that you never wanted.

Problems can then be blamed on Afghanistan if Pakistan is attacked from those areas.

And the flash point presently of NATO crossing the existing border and the accusation of Pakistan sheltering the Taliban will not exist.

Pakistan can actually draw the line at her borders to prevent the militant infiltration and create a valid pincer with NATO in the tribal areas without the politics getting in the way.

My personal opinion has been shaped through years of travelling especially in india and pakistan. I believe that india and pakistan should both be split into smaller states contolled loosely by a federation that handles currency and defence only. Look at india: some states like Gujrat are highly developed while others are really really poor. Even the Cm of gujrat told the chinese that gujrat is differrent from the rest of india. The region has such a large population that huge bureacracy results in extreme corruption.

For now, the larger the area that pakistan controls, the better. If pakistan does split up, it will not survive against india.

As for the tribal regions--peace can be brought about by development not war. Obviously youll please the american masses by killing alleged criminals but it does not make them any safer. Its just money wasted.

I think pakistan has now realized that they can not let the tribal areas exist as a state within a state and im pretty sure efforts are being made to merge them into the mainstream.

Sent from my GT-P1000 using Tapatalk

 

[cybrsage]

Increasing the standard of living, combined with education, is the key to vastly reducing extremism. When life is worth living and the future holds promise of being better for a person's children, less people become extremists.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Did this make the news down there?

"US admits mistakes over killings of Pakistan troops"

"The US military has admitted it bears significant responsibility for last month's air strike on the Afghan border that killed 24 Pakistani soldiers."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-16302197

I always hate how US news puts NATO in the headlines whenever they fucc up.
NATO MAY HAVE MESSED UP AGAIN

But if its a victory... USA CATCHES BIN LADEN

Good to see a little responsibility taken

 

[EagleKeeper]

It was plastered all over Yahoo last week.
Both sides fucked up - however, Pakistan will not admit it.

 

[Orignal Earl]

It was plastered all over Yahoo last week.
Both sides fucked up - however, Pakistan will not admit it.

I'm starting to think if you had an American soldier beating your head in with a 2x4 you would say it was mostly Pakistans fault

 

[EagleKeeper]

Your belief.

Pakistan initially admitted that they did not have proper info;
NATO also admitted that they did not.

 

[davmat787]

Your belief.

Pakistan initially admitted that they did not have proper info;
NATO also admitted that they did not.

That is my understanding as well, that both sides made mistakes. Didn't PAK forget to update their locations as well with the US? Will look for more info, but I remember reading about mistakes on all sides, unless this is a different incident.

Regardless, a very unfortunate series of mistakes all around. Makes no difference to the families of lost loved ones who is responsible for this ultimately I would imagine.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Your belief.

Pakistan initially admitted that they did not have proper info;
NATO also admitted that they did not.

Of course the US is not doing it on purpose.
It's always some kind of incompetence
I wonder how many allies in the war on terror the US has messed up and killed now

It happens what? at least once a month

US air strike kills 'Iraq allies' http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7309292.stm

US Drone Crashes in Somalia Killing 5 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQmlKOnIdeo

U.S. friendly fire kills 3 allies http://articles.cnn.com/2002-06-01/...fghan-allies-khomar-kalay-qaeda?_s=PM:asiapcf

US bomb kills allies in Afghanistan http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/1936589.stm

Friendly fire kills U.S.-allied Sunni leader http://articles.sfgate.com/2008-09-...g-councils-sunni-fighters-baghdad-governorate

US Airforce kills Afghan Allies http://hq197.wordpress.com/2008/10/22/us-airforce-kills-afghan-allies/

Afghanistan: Four Canadian Soldiers Killed By U.S. Air Strike
http://enews.fergananews.com/article.php?id=15

On 4 September the same year, Olympic athlete Private Mark Anthony Graham from the 1st Battalion The Royal Canadian Regiment was killed by a US A-10 Warthog attack aircraft in a friendly fire incident. Dozens of other Canadians were wounded in the incident. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Anthony_Graham

Lord, and the list just goes on n on

Rule #1 to all mils outside of the US
Always make sure the US is in front of you and not behind

 

[Lemon law]

We have to go back to the original Nato Pakistani agreement. Nato leased a suppl y line route into Afghanistan while promising NONE NADA NO NATO military action in Pakistan.

Nothing more Nothing less. But when Nato violates Pakistani territory in hot pursuit of the Taliban, and Pakistani soldiers fire warning shots at Nato for its tresspass inside of Pakistan, there is no Nato excuse, for calling in air strikes on Pakistani Territory.

 

[EagleKeeper]

We have to go back to the original Nato Pakistani agreement. Nato leased a suppl y line route into Afghanistan while promising NONE NADA NO NATO military action in Pakistan.

Nothing more Nothing less. But when Nato violates Pakistani territory in hot pursuit of the Taliban, and Pakistani soldiers fire warning shots at Nato for its tresspass inside of Pakistan, there is no Nato excuse, for calling in air strikes on Pakistani Territory.

Were they warning shots. Blanks?
How would NATO tell the difference?

 

[Lemon law]

Were they warning shots. Blanks?
How would NATO tell the difference?

====================================================================
A Totally irrelevant and moot argument EK, when the only thing that matters is which side of the border Pakistani troops were. And which side of the Border Nato troops were.

As soon as Nato operated militarily inside of Pakistan, Nato is dead wrong.

END OF STORY. NO EXCUSES. NO NATO LEG TO STAND ON. AS PAKISTAN HAS EVERY RIGHT TO TERMINATE THE NATO SUPPLY LINE.

When Nato admits it was totally wrong and agrees to stop violating its agreement, then Pakistan might re open the supply line. And that applies to US drones also as Pakistan has made clear.

 

[Ozoned]

I really wish the world really did operate in harmony with your politically correct dream world.

Pakistan is a shit hole. Nobody cares.

 

[EagleKeeper]

====================================================================
A Totally irrelevant and moot argument EK, when the only thing that matters is which side of the border Pakistani troops were. And which side of the Border Nato troops were.

As soon as Nato operated militarily inside of Pakistan, Nato is dead wrong.

END OF STORY. NO EXCUSES. NO NATO LEG TO STAND ON. AS PAKISTAN HAS EVERY RIGHT TO TERMINATE THE NATO SUPPLY LINE.

When Nato admits it was totally wrong and agrees to stop violating its agreement, then Pakistan might re open the supply line. And that applies to US drones also as Pakistan has made clear.

For an arm chair soldier to say; ignore being shot at, turn around and walk away.

• One, in a firefight, no one is looking at the GPS locations.
• Two, when fired on; you respond in kind; destroy the enemy.
• Three, you do not have GPS locations of the enemy in a firefight, especially at night
• Four, both NATO and Pakistan have stated that the actual borders there are unclear. There are no signposts

 

[Kadarin]

I wonder how much of that report was politically fabricated to allow Pakistan to save face.

 

[chucky2]

If the US/NATO is chasing someone into Pakistan who they're fighting, why would the Pakistani's engage US/NATA instead of engaging whoever the US/NATA is chasing into Pakistan?????

If the Pakistani's don't want these F'ers in their country, and they know we're engaged with them, then when they cross into Pakistan the Pakistani's should be the anvil to our hammer, not engaging us instead so these people can disengage while we're now being engaged by Pakistan.

Good for the US/NATO...more messages like this need to keep being sent. Fire on us, we blow up your whole base. Don't like it? Sweet. Help us instead of trying to F us....

 

[Lemon law]

All well and fine of you,chucky2, to put the smack down on Pakistan while beating your chest and screaming its your way or the highway.

But Pakistan has a better idea, if Nato can't follow the rules of engagement, Nato supplies can sit in a Pakistani port, but that is the closest those supplies will get to Afghanistan.

Air freight gets real, expensive.

Nato has terminated paying for the Pakistani land route in and Pakistan has shut down the Nato supply line down for the past 15 days or so. Waiting not only for a real apology but also total NATO compliance with its agreements.

 

[Kadarin]

All well and fine of you,chucky2, to put the smack down on Pakistan while beating your chest and screaming its your way or the highway.

chucky2 is right in that the Pakistani military has no intention of fighting against the militants/taliban. For this alone, they deserve as much ammunition and ordnance as we can rapidly deliver to them.

 

[Lemon law]

chucky2 is right in that the Pakistani military has no intention of fighting against the militants/taliban. For this alone, they deserve as much ammunition and ordnance as we can rapidly deliver to them.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wow or Wow my country right or wrong on steroids.

That why thee USA must military take over Cuba, Egypt, Syria, North Korea, China, Russia, Germany, Iran, Japan, Great Britain, and every country on earth that does not give us total and slavish obedience. In short every Country in the world.

But wait, we in the USA can't even competently handle our quagmires in Iraq and Afghanistan.

But surely quagmires get cheaper by the dozen, so a dozen dozen or a gross must be cheaper and Easier too. And that will be still 47 short of the other 192 nations in the UN
Nor does that count the various insurgency groups rebelling against their respective nations. Groups like the old Mujaheddin we labeled freedom fighters or just plain terrorists
which require a certain degree of judgment.

But I volunteer you Kadarin to personally break the bad news to various Mexican drug cartels that the USA is taking over. Surely they will welcome you with open arms, and retreat in abject terror at your moral force. Maybe Dick Cheney will lend you a fully automatic weapon and some ammunition to enhance your courage of your own convictions. Who knows, the folks who run the Darwin awards may even recognize your achievements.

 

[chucky2]

Er, don't really understand your reply to me LL. My point is that basically every civilized, even halfway civilized, country does not view the Taliban in any type of favorable light. Which means, they will have to be either defeated, or, mitigated. To mitigate them means to have them exist in Afghanistan/Pakistan but subservient to and abiding by these countries laws and culture, so as to keep the peace and have a stable society (well, as stable as one could hope for in these countries)....something the Taliban is quite clearly at very strong odds with.

Which leaves defeating them; the third option, which is the one Pakistan has taken, is letting militant fundi's run around your country gathering power at the expense of societal cohesiveness...a strategy that obviously is easy to make for short term political gains, but really bad for your country long term.

Given all that, and, all that IS a given, why would you EVER say, "Pakistan has a better idea..."?????

Your response to me just makes like zero logical sense, unless you are rooting for the Taliban or the Taliban sympathizing parts of Pakistan......is that where you're coming from?

Chuck

 

[Nebor]

A new railroad just opened into Afghanistan from the North, and with new deals worked out with the nations to the North, it's looking like we'll get by just fine without supply routes through Pakistan. It's been reported that most of the supplies coming in through Pakistan were "non-military" supplies anyway, due to the extremely high incidence of theft and loss.

 

[cybrsage]

Good, time to take our toys and go home...and our toys includes our money.

 

[The Green Bean]

Good, time to take our toys and go home...and our toys includes our money.

Yea, get the fuck out.

 

[chucky2]

Until your next natural disaster, right?

 

[Kadarin]

Yea, get the fuck out.

I'm ok with getting the fuck out. I'm also ok with not giving Pakistan any foreign aid, and not donating anything the next time Allah blesses Pakistan with a flood or earthquake that kills thousands of people.

I'm also ok with you keeping your fucked up religion in your own cesspool of a country.

 

[Lemon law]

Let us all face the facts here, because it little matters if the Taliban uses Pakistan as a safe haven, because it means those set of Taliban can't cause trouble inside of Afghanistan. And if Nato wants to keep those Taliban rascals from returning into Afghanistan, Let Nato patrol the border, and stop the Taliban from coming into Afghanistan. And even if a few Taliban members filter back into Afghanistan, no one will object if Nato, in hot pursuit, chases them even further inside of Afghanistan.

After all, no one accuses Pakistani soldiers of sneaking into Afganistan and attacking Nato outposts.

But wait that may not be true in the future as the Karazai government NOW is directly engaging in peace talks with the Taliban with no Pakistani or Nato inputs. And its possible if those talks with Karzai result in a deal with Karzai and the Taliban, it may be Karazai saying to Nato, leave Afghanistan and take your troops and money with you. And no waiting until 2014 or so, get out ASAP, early in 2012.