StickHead you don't even deserve a reply !!!!
And here is all of ya's proof that clock for clock the P-4 is faster Compare
We can all pull the one liner benchmark game till dooms day.
Hanky I think that this article can shed some real light on what SSE-2 has in store it even helps the Thunderbird LOL!!!!!
Zipperhead you just proved my point in real world apps the T-bird is only gainy 10% from DDR and the extra FSB. I would guess that this is what your talking about you weren't to clear. As far as the T-Bird at 150 FSB to a stock clocked P-4 that is a pretty unfair comparison of the real performance that the T-Bird if it ever makes it to this clock speed would have. I can clock my FSB up and waste the T-Bird too what's the point ???
Dexion Just exactly what is it you do ??? I would bet that your right on the money there But we all know that AMD has a long row to how to weed its way into the IT market in any force for a while and really I don't think that at this time the P-4 is aimed at that market But I could be wrong.
And here is all of ya's proof that clock for clock the P-4 is faster Compare
We can all pull the one liner benchmark game till dooms day.
Hanky I think that this article can shed some real light on what SSE-2 has in store it even helps the Thunderbird LOL!!!!!
Zipperhead you just proved my point in real world apps the T-bird is only gainy 10% from DDR and the extra FSB. I would guess that this is what your talking about you weren't to clear. As far as the T-Bird at 150 FSB to a stock clocked P-4 that is a pretty unfair comparison of the real performance that the T-Bird if it ever makes it to this clock speed would have. I can clock my FSB up and waste the T-Bird too what's the point ???
Dexion Just exactly what is it you do ??? I would bet that your right on the money there But we all know that AMD has a long row to how to weed its way into the IT market in any force for a while and really I don't think that at this time the P-4 is aimed at that market But I could be wrong.
Who said that Video Encoding with Flask that the Tbird is faster? Everyone knows that the P4 rules with 4 programs, Flask Mpeg4, Quake 3, Bapco and did I mention Quake 3!?!
Everything else its lackluster performance, and clock for clock the Tbird would beat the P4 except in Flask, Quake and Bapco, and did I mention Quake 3?!?!
What still holds strue is its very poor FPU capabilities, which is definately the straw back of this memory bandwidth behemoth.
Remember, we are still comparing this $755 processor with a sub $300 dollar affordable alternative! Its amazing how the Tbird is even comparible to the P4 at a 300Mhz lower clock speed.
What I'm waiting for is the AMD 760 MP chipset that cann run duel Tbird. Hmmmm, that would be an awesome rendering machine. AMD would definately penetrate the the corporate market at that point.
Everything else its lackluster performance, and clock for clock the Tbird would beat the P4 except in Flask, Quake and Bapco, and did I mention Quake 3?!?!
What still holds strue is its very poor FPU capabilities, which is definately the straw back of this memory bandwidth behemoth.
Remember, we are still comparing this $755 processor with a sub $300 dollar affordable alternative! Its amazing how the Tbird is even comparible to the P4 at a 300Mhz lower clock speed.
What I'm waiting for is the AMD 760 MP chipset that cann run duel Tbird. Hmmmm, that would be an awesome rendering machine. AMD would definately penetrate the the corporate market at that point.
so I'll take it you'll be doing a lot of MPEG4 encoding, since this benchmark is meaningful enough for you to buy a P4?
happy encoding... oh what was the fps/$ spent ratio again?
happy encoding... oh what was the fps/$ spent ratio again?
I was using that comparision to show that there are 2 sides to the story and without SSE-2 the race between the 2 was real close and with it the P-4 Kicked Butt. Don't ya get it.
Heh. Spending $500+ on a cpu that gets beat by an athon $200 chip in most of todays apps is just plain idiotic. Say our budget is $500 and we go shopping. You pay all of you money for a p-4 and i spend $200 of mine for a 1.2 gig, your system wont be much faster in todays apps and be slower in alot of them. Your thinking, well 3-5 months from now when them new sse2 games blah blah that come out im gonna smoke your ass. Ok 5 months go by.....you are whooping my ass in frame rates in this new game. I got $300 dollas in my pocket, i got buy the new amd 1.5 gig or whatever comes out...guess what? im whooping ur ass. But you got another $500, so you go buy a new higher clocked p-4 chip. Now yer back where you started barely beating me in framrates and performing very similar in most apps. Guess what? i got my $500, i go buy the new Nvidia Geforce4 ultra or whatevers out, and yer really smoked now cuz yer still using yer geforce2 cuz you spent all yer money on a stupid p4.
<< I was using that comparision to show that there are 2 sides to the story and without SSE-2 the race between the 2 was real close and with it the P-4 Kicked Butt. Don't ya get it. >>
Well actually, theres only 1 story. Its only 4 pages of the book(Flask, Quake3, Bapco and did I meention Quake 3?!?!). Other than that, the Tbird performs comparible or better than the P4 on 15 other benchmarks, not enough to even justify the costs over the Tbird. SSE-2 does look interesting, however it definately takes alott of time before every software made would run with SSE-2 optimization. Infact, what % of all programs are even SSE-1 optimized now? It definately takes several years, infact, MMX and 3Dnow has proven this. How often are there new OSes and New Software released? Once every year or so.
By then, I believe that AMD would have Hammer SSE-2 out in the market to compete with the 2Ghz P4. Infact, Intel would be promoting SSE-2 so much that it would infact help AMD in the long run.
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Um, NOS, did you forget to check the rest of the article you posted? The benchmark you posted was the old benchmark. Tom's updated benchmark shows very different results. And also notice his overall conclusions!
But it is true, << Pentium 4 is really good in Quake 3 >>.
But it is true, << Pentium 4 is really good in Quake 3 >>.
Zipperhead
They were OEM test bed CPU's and Ram. That someone got ahold of and sold them as soon as I heard about them I Jumped and got a hell of a deal on the CPU and ram and then the motherboard cost me 238.00 shipped from my favorite vendor with my discount. Hell they are already cheaper then that on pricewatch wish I waited a week or more.
Dexion I'm sure your right it will be a long while before most of today's apps if ever support SSE-2. But thats not the point what you don't seem to understand is that most "COMMONLY USED" apps are sitting there waiting for you the user to input data with 500 mhz CPU and have no real need for any muscle. The P-4 is more than enough to handle any Office app or whatever and when the newer stuff comes out it will smoke at that. Now I'm sure that in some big data base operation or whatever there may be a draw back but that means nothing to me.
They were OEM test bed CPU's and Ram. That someone got ahold of and sold them as soon as I heard about them I Jumped and got a hell of a deal on the CPU and ram and then the motherboard cost me 238.00 shipped from my favorite vendor with my discount. Hell they are already cheaper then that on pricewatch wish I waited a week or more.
Dexion I'm sure your right it will be a long while before most of today's apps if ever support SSE-2. But thats not the point what you don't seem to understand is that most "COMMONLY USED" apps are sitting there waiting for you the user to input data with 500 mhz CPU and have no real need for any muscle. The P-4 is more than enough to handle any Office app or whatever and when the newer stuff comes out it will smoke at that. Now I'm sure that in some big data base operation or whatever there may be a draw back but that means nothing to me.
Ken_g6 your mistaken there that is not the final review from toms hardware the link I post below is the final Sorry you better go back and read them all !!!!!!!
<< But thats not the point what you don't seem to understand is that most "COMMONLY USED" apps are sitting there waiting for you the user to input data with 500 mhz CPU and have no real need for any muscle. The P-4 is more than enough to handle any Office app or whatever and when the newer stuff comes out it will smoke at that. Now I'm sure that in some big data base operation or whatever there may be a draw back but that means nothing to me. >>
Exactly my point. Why buy the P4 now then? If it comes out ontop months or a year later thats fine, but since this currrent P4 is soon being phased out with a newer socket and chipset. Your paying premium from someeething that isn't mature yet. Your basically purchasing something that isn't a great performing, nor will it be top of the line a year from now with the newer P4 platform/chipset. Any 800mhz system including a Celeron(which is the slowest CPU in the market right now) can handle office apps that are currently being used. The question is, when is this newer apps/software you speak of coming out? Definately games will come out in hordes, but a Tbird can run those just fine withh a Top line Video card(that you can purchase with the spare change left over from the CPU), there is such thing as "minimum and recommended" requirements.
Well i wouldnt buy a p4 now couse ive always liked amd and the price is to high, but if you really did get the p4 for that price then cool.Good deal.If i could get that price i would have a p4 in my system now also. The whole point is we alll know the p4 doesnt smoke the athlon.They both have there +'s and -'s besides the price.
<< Hanky I think that this article can shed some real light on what SSE-2 has in store >>
What I wanted to say is that SSE-2 is completely UNinteresting for some applications and will also stay UNinteresting in the future. And because of its weak FPU, the P4 has at least one SERIOUS problem.
Anyway, the P4 might be a great CPU if a lot of compilers and a lot of other FPU-intensive applications support SSE-2, but the K6-2 would have been a very good CPU as well (at its time) with better 3Dnow! support. And I mean "very good" when saying "very good"...remember how poor the K6-2 was...
Oh you know sse2 will take off.its intels instructions. 3dnow is from amd and the software company's could have done alot more coding in the 3dnow insructions.Just like Q3 for example is highly optimized for sse and not 3dnow.Remember the Q2 patch that amd made.It had the little lower clocked k6's spanken some ass.Thats what will happen with sse2.Its to bad to.If you take away all the 3dnow and sse2 code the athlon will smoke the p4 in the fpu programs.
<< Now I'm sure that in some big data base operation or whatever there may be a draw back but that means nothing to me >>
Means a whole lot to the corporate world, thats where more than 50% of all sales are. Infact what good would the CPU be if its only good for games like Quake 3?
Dexion.. I really don't remember the title of this thread ever having anything to do with telling people to go out and buy a P-4 .........
Hanky
<<<<<What I wanted to say is that SSE-2 is completely UNinteresting for some applications and will also stay UNinteresting in the future. And because of its weak FPU, the P4 has at least one SERIOUS problem.
Anyway, the P4 might be a great CPU if a lot of compilers and a lot of other FPU-intensive applications support SSE-2, but the K6-2 would have been a very good CPU as well (at its time) with better 3Dnow! support. And I mean "very good" when saying "very good"...remember how poor the K6-2 was...>>>>>
This is a real good point and points to a serious flaw in AMDs support program and points to the supiority of Intels. If AMD would make descent Compilers for there 3Dnow than maybe software coder would use it.
BW Quake 3 is optimised for SSE and 3Dnow dude !!!!!!!!
Dexion and who owns the corporate world as the Computer is concer......... Oh thats Intel LOL!!!!!!!
Hanky
<<<<<What I wanted to say is that SSE-2 is completely UNinteresting for some applications and will also stay UNinteresting in the future. And because of its weak FPU, the P4 has at least one SERIOUS problem.
Anyway, the P4 might be a great CPU if a lot of compilers and a lot of other FPU-intensive applications support SSE-2, but the K6-2 would have been a very good CPU as well (at its time) with better 3Dnow! support. And I mean "very good" when saying "very good"...remember how poor the K6-2 was...>>>>>
This is a real good point and points to a serious flaw in AMDs support program and points to the supiority of Intels. If AMD would make descent Compilers for there 3Dnow than maybe software coder would use it.
BW Quake 3 is optimised for SSE and 3Dnow dude !!!!!!!!
Dexion and who owns the corporate world as the Computer is concer......... Oh thats Intel LOL!!!!!!!
nos440-man-you need to get laid or something.if you didn't spend so much on computer equipement
you could have gotten a great hooker or 2 for $580.(LOL)
you could have gotten a great hooker or 2 for $580.(LOL)
<< remember how poor the K6-2 was >>
Another example of a myth about AMD
The K6-2 was a very excellent cpu. It was pretty much on par with a celeron A clock for clock in integer preformance. To say it was "poor" is a pretty ignorant statement. For e.g. offcie apps and internet the K6-2 was a better alternative to anyting Intel offered at the time. Ofcourse Intel then jacked up clockspeed to gain an advantage, but never matched AMD in cost effectiveness.
<< Dexion and who owns the corporate world as the Computer is concer......... Oh thats Intel LOL!!!!!!! >>
Your right! Intel does own most of the business market share currently, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't change in the future. Since the business market requires more "calculations" and less SSE-2 or any instruction set optimization, more companies may look at AMD instead since its Floating Point and its affordability is much more attractive. Which brings up the point of Multi-CPU Processors, AMD or VIA will most likely be releasing this sometime this year. It would definately change things.
Dexion I seriously doubt that your predictions will ever happen. The only way that this could happen is if and I mean IF AMD can produce a ROCK SOLID dual processor platform and I seriously doubt that it will happen anytime soon.
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