Overclocking Probs With New Rig (?)

[Elfear]

Looks like you guys have a great forum here. I'm very new to overclocking (as I'm sure you'll be able to tell in this and future posts) and I'm running into a few problems trying to get my rig to overclock.

The first thing I did was to determine the max stable point for the Vcore voltage. After I reduced the memory timing and stuck the FSB at stock speeds (to single out the mobo for testing), I cranked the Vcore voltage up to 1.625 (what MSI deems to be within performance settings but not critical yet) from the BIOS and tried running 3DMark2001 to put some load on the CPU. Well it crashed after only 30 seconds and gave an error message of too much heat. Tried it at 1.6125 and now when I set the Vcore voltage in the BIOS, my Core Center pumps the volts up too so when I look at the current settings it says 2.XX!! I'm a little scared to mess with it if the Core Center and the BIOS aren't communicating.

My other concern is the heat. I have a Zalman CNPS7000A HS that I had to modify slightly to fit next to the Northbridge HS. I have four 80mm case fans and I get idle temps of ~40C and full load temps of ~52C at stock settings. Seems a bit high, but then again I am pretty new to this stuff.

Any advice for a noob?

 

[SickBeast]

Well, I'd imagine you're overclocking the P4 in your signature, in which case I won't be of very much help unfortunately as I have never pwned one.

In any event, it seems that you are using voltages that are way too high for your cooling setup. I think only the guys using watercooling bump the voltage up that high. Be careful as you might end up frying something.

Now, you're using the 3.2C I'm guessing, and that CPU is not well known for it's overclocking prowess. You *should* be able to pull 3.5ghz out of it, and if you're lucky you'll get 3.6. What voltage does it require to be stable at 3.44?

AFAIK most guys use the 5:4 divider when overclocking a P4. I don't know if that will help.

 

[yourdeardaniel]

you should try another temperature monitoring program like mbm5 and check the temperatures and vcore. 40-50 isn't that bad. i have my vcore set at 1.675 but that is on a 2.8c. do you have a northwood or prescott for your p4? i think northwood u can up voltage to as high as 1.65 and 1.7 before it gets in danger zone. u should check the temps again and make sure u set up your 7000A correctly.

for overclocking, i think you have to up the FSB by 5mhz increments with default vcore until it starts rebooting or has errors, then u raise the vcore slowly by like .25 or whatever increment your mobo uses until you don't get reboots or errors. also raise the vdimm to like 2.7 or 2.8 whatever ur ram's max voltage is specified at. i think u also have to raise vagp or whatever to 1.55 or 1.6, mine is 1.65 max. hope that helps. i could be wrong lol.

 

[Elfear]

Thanks guys. The 3.44GHz was achieved using stock voltage (1.55) and it is a Northwood chip. I'll look at the 7000A and see if it's mounted correctly and try MBM5 to see if the Core Center is reading correctly. Does anyone have an MSI board and use the Core Center for overclocking?

 

[jhurst]

You should be able to get 3.6-3.8ghz from that chip. Northwoods are very good overclockers, my 2.8C gets up to 3.6ghz without adding too much voltage (1.65v instead of 1.525v). I would try not to go over 1.65v, and certainly nothing above 1.7v. Above 1.7 and you can get sudden P4C death. Don't touch your AGP voltage...keep it at 1.55. Your RAM should be set at something like 3-4-4-8 @ 2.7 or 2.8v.

Also, since you have PC4200 RAM, you do not need a 5:4 divider, you will definitely want to run 1:1, that is the reason for getting high speed RAM.

Are you using good thermal paste underneath your Zalman?

I wouldn't worry too much about temps, idling @ 40C is good, load prolly shouldn't go above 55C to be supersafe.

To test your system stability, use Prime95, not 3dMark. 3dMark stresses video components as well, which adds another variable.

 

[Elfear]

Thanks jhurst. After seeing everyone get 3.6 pretty easy I thought mine should do at least that too. I'm using Artic Silver but I think I may have put too much on. I'll pull the HS off and reapply a very thin layer. How do get the HS off with out pulling the CPU with it? That Artic Silver is so sticky that when I tried to remove the HS last time it pulled the CPU out with it!! Bad, I know, but none of the pins were bent so I stuck it back in.

Also, if the RAM is rated at CAS latency 2.5 should I run it at the slower CAS 3?

 

[MichaelZ]

No, if it's rated at 2.5, run it at the rated cas. P4 doesn't suffer much if put into 5:4 divider, but your ram can handle any FSB that CPU can dish out, so it's not a problem.

After seeing everyone get 3.6 pretty easy I thought mine should do at least that too.

See here: link Notice that the exact same eSpec chip has large variation?

Overclocking is a gamble, your OC depends on your chip and the ones that do overclock are the ones you hear about and those without a good chip sit back and just settle for what they can get.

Everyone is hardly the correct term to use. Just look at that topic for example.

Not to mention that CPU Jhurst has is a M0 stepping 2.8C which is almost expected to OC well out of the box. Thugs has a 2.8C M0 running 3.53 @ 1.52V which he obtained after some searching. Now that's a great chip

If you already have the zalman with AS under it and 4 case fans, Vcore @ 1.625V (assuming if this is the real Vcore) then you're pretty much done. You won't be able to squeeze much more out of it. Just a note that running at 1.65V is the absolute maximum unless you want to noticably shorten the life of the CPU. hell even 1.65 is a bit high. I read somewhere that Zebo's 2.8C died at this voltage after only a few months.

Stay around 1.55V vcore for peace of mind. Hell i run my 3.0C @ 1.52V~1.53V, running 3.7ghz for daily use. It was however a specific purchase I made at work by going through all the 3.0Cs we had in stock and finding the one with the earliest box date with 30 caps. That's just increasing chances of getting a good OC by getting a specific chip. Even then, there are some with the 30 cap 3.0Cs whom couldn't get a good OC out of it. Luck of the draw indeed.

 

[jhurst]

True I do have an M0, but I had a 2.8 D1 before, and it would do 3.4ghz on stock voltage (and stock cooling for that matter). If the some of the 3.0's don't overclock to beyond 3.5ghz, I would send it back or something and get a 2.8C. Almost everyone I have read with a 2.8C is easily able to push it beyond 3.4ghz, most of the time 3.5 (even with a D1).

It just seems to me that the 3.0 Northwoods would be equally good overclockers than the 2.8. I realize that they may not be able to get 700-800mhz overclock, or like a ghz overclock like the 2.4 chips, but it still seems like they should be able to overclock 600mhz quite easily. But like lazyboy said, you don't want to push your voltage up too high, and you want to monitor that voltage regularly, mine stays in between 1.60-1.63 (MBM5), and the chip stays cool, so I feel pretty safe right now.

 

[Elfear]

Ya, maybe 3.6 is wishful thinking with my chip. I think I'll try to remount the heatsink and add another fan or two to see if I can get temps down. I'm hoping for something like 45-46C at full load. I tried running Prime95 at a FSB of 217 (stock voltage) and my computer automatically shut down because temps got up to 59C! Either I have something very wrong with the cooling (very likely) or the Zalman I got isn't that great (not likely). Anyway, thanks for the advice guys.

 

[jhurst]

59C isn't what is causing your computer to shut down. That temp is well within P4 temp. specs. The Zalman HSF is one of the best (only behind the SP94 IMO) out right now for the P4, that isn't your problem. What program are you using when your temps get up to 59C?

What PSU are you using? Sometimes a weak PSU can not provide stable power for an OC'ed system.

 

[SickBeast]

I dunno, 59C sounds very hot to me. On my Athlon XP Mobile, once I hit the mid-50s my computer crashes and/or hard reboots. Granted, the P4s may have different thermal properties, but regardless that sounds very hot.

From the sounds of it your cooling is amiss. Aren't the Zalman's generally designed to minimize noise? I don't think of them as overclocking coolers. Since you're getting such poor results it might be worth looking into something from Thermalright. I have been very happy with my SLK-800A.

The arctic silver stuff requires a very specific method of application, and from the sounds of it you're not following the directions. Check out the website for details.

Basically, you need to clean the cpu with a lint free cloth and some rubbing alcohol. You then take some saran wrap, and massage some AS into your heatsink where it will contact the CPU. You then put a very small amount onto the P4 core, and spread it with either the saran wrap or an exacto blade. Never touch any of the surfaces with your bare finger.

I don't know if that will help. If you're hitting 3.43 at stock voltage, you *should* be hitting much much higher with a voltage boost. I would say 3.6 at the very least.

 

[Elfear]

After I messed with the Core Center program a bit I found that it has a CPU temp alarm that shuts the computer down if I hit a certain temp. I raised it to 64C but 59C still worries me.

The PSU (500W) is the one that came with my $30.00 JPac case so it's probably not the best.

The Zalman HS has very good reviews on the net, not just for noise, but also for cooling ability. I'll try to reapply the Arctic Silver (Ceramique) and do like you guys said with the saran wrap.

I've read a few places about a "burn in" period. Do you guys know what that means?

 

[SickBeast]

Burn-in is all bunk IMO. It's a theory that states that by overvolting a chip for awhile, it will somehow magically allow it to hit higher overclocks. Bunk I tell you, bunk.

 

[MichaelZ]

wise man once said:

Burn-in is all bunk IMO.

as for your temperature, is that using software? a lot of motherboards over read or under read the temperatures. just disable the safety shut down and re-apply some AS. this time just dobule check that zalman is sitting correctly. sometimes when you screw it on, the clip can slide slightly out of the bracket and that's when you might have problems.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: i82lazyboy
wise man once said:

Burn-in is all bunk IMO.

 

[jhurst]

Yes, don't concern yourself with 59C. And don't listen to the AMD users whos MB's severely under-temp everytime. You will hear of people running their CPU's under load @ like 35C. That is basically impossible. CPU's generate heat, that is just what they do. I would use the "grain of rice" application like on the arctic silver website. Just put a small dab of AS on the center of the heat spreader (right over the die) and it will spread evenly on its own. Disable the software shutdown program, I have mine set at 70C (and that is with ABIT over-temping). I think the only way mine would ever get that high is if the Zalman broke and fell to the bottom of my case (which btw could happen with how much the damn thing ways).

Also, the Zalman is a GREAT HSF for overclocking. It is second to the SP94 IMO. Plus, its cheaper, quieter, and looks cooler than the SP94. I have one on my 2.8 @ 3.6 and I get fine temps (even with ABIT over-temping).

 

[MichaelZ]

I just got a SP94, ASUS P4C Deluxe, some fans, coolermaster rounded cables and neons off my friend for a hundred bucks

I'm definatly not switching out my Zalman for the SP94 as the amount of work required to do that makes it unworthwhile since my 3.0 @ 3.7 is running stable. Now that I got all this stuff, I can finally dump that cruddy Albatron board in my spare rig, home to many dead slots. Now gonna use this SP94 and see how much higher of an overclock my faithful 2.4B will go.