Outrage in Stanford Rape Case Over Light Sentence for Attacker and Stmt by His Father

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woolfe9998

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I said earlier in this thread ( 3 years back) that it was extreme to throw this judge off the bench because we disagree with how he exercised the sentencing discretion given to him by California law. I also mentioned that a typical sentence for a sexual battery in CA is about 2 years, not 5-10 as for rape, for which Turner was not convicted because it has not been proven. In any event, time goes by, the judge was thrown off the bench by recall vote exactly as I expected he would be under this political climate. While no one would have known or cared had he handed out a 6 month sentence for, say, armed robbery. But now we have our pound of flesh and can move on, right? Wrong.

After leaving the judiciary, the ex-judge, who evidently is an accomplished tennis player, applied for a job coaching high school tennis. Met all the qualifications and was hired. Then the next day, he was fired. Apparently the school found out he was the evil man who sentenced Brock Turner to 6 months instead of the typical 2 years.


We make pariahs out of sex offenders by forcing them to register for life and be subject to potential vigilante "justice" wherever they go because their crimes involved the touching, use and/or arousal of sex organs. While those who commit murder, mayhem (dismemberment), torture, arson, armed robbery, burglary, etc. can pay their debt to society and move on. But that isn't enough. Now we must make the judge who was too lenient into a permanent and unemployable social pariah.

The excesses of the left's identity politics in this current political environment need to be contained. We've already destroyed the career of Al Franken, an excellent progressive leader. Maybe we should consider that our observation of the racism, misogyny, and homophobia on the right has caused us to react in ways which are not always healthy. Liberals are not supposed to act like angry mobs every time someone has offended a group we are trying to protect. In this case, women. We can protect and elevate those groups without giving in to the fear and hatred we see so often on the right.
 
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Viper1j

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Jul 31, 2018
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Saying those people represent the left, is like saying that Adolf Hitler represents all of the right.
 
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woolfe9998

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Saying those people represent the left, is like saying that Adolf Hitler represents all of the right.
Really? Most of the people in this thread were outraged by the judge's sentence. And a majority of citizens here voted to throw him off the bench. And then he got fired from teaching high school tennis, very likely because the school knew that hiring him would be terrible PR in these parts. What I'm talking about is the mainstream liberal reaction to this case, not a fringe element.
 

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
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@woolfe9998

I'm not at all surprised that he was fired from his new role (a little surprised that he was hired, but anyway): I would expect a person who is supposed to have a lot of experience seeing and judging scumbags like Turner to have considerable experience and be a potential asset in a high school setting with vulnerable minors (young adults too? not American, don't know the age range of 'high school'), instead he encounters an obvious predator and gives him a slap on the wrist. It's not exactly the message you want to send to high schoolers, is it: Go to this guy if you experience sexual violence, and the perp may get detention from this guy. After all, we don't want to go 'ruining the lives' of scumbags who willingly tried to destroy the well-being of other people.

I don't think this has anything to do with 'liberals', I think any conservative person running a public-facing establishment would feel a similar quandary about hiring such a guy. Excusing alleged sexual assault might have a conservative bias, but going light on convicted rapists (please don't quibble about what kind of rapist he is) is something that is generally despised IMO (ignoring cases regarding politicians).

It would be bad if this guy literally could never get another job, but any job that involves vulnerable people? This guy has shit judgement, and would have been responsible for the safety of minors. It was an open-and-shut case. There was no grey area, and he fucked up big time.
 
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dawp

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Jul 2, 2005
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I don't think he needs to be on the bench after that ruling but to prevent him from working in a completely different field is not what I think is appropriate.

And why a tennis instructor? He still should be able to practice law, just not from the bench.
 

Viper1j

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Jul 31, 2018
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Really? Most of the people in this thread were outraged by the judge's sentence. And a majority of citizens here voted to throw him off the bench. And then he got fired from teaching high school tennis, very likely because the school knew that hiring him would be terrible PR in these parts. What I'm talking about is the mainstream liberal reaction to this case, not a fringe element.
Speak for yourself. I wasn't outraged at all.
 

interchange

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
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My feeling is that this is more generational rather than political. Broadly speaking, it seems millennials identifying evil and inflexibly condemning the evil doer without hope for redemption extends well beyond sexual crimes. I agree that it's not a healthy societal trait.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
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Really? Most of the people in this thread were outraged by the judge's sentence. And a majority of citizens here voted to throw him off the bench. And then he got fired from teaching high school tennis, very likely because the school knew that hiring him would be terrible PR in these parts. What I'm talking about is the mainstream liberal reaction to this case, not a fringe element.
My feeling is that this is more generational rather than political. Broadly speaking, it seems millennials identifying evil and inflexibly condemning the evil doer without hope for redemption extends well beyond sexual crimes. I agree that it's not a healthy societal trait.
There is a significant regressive element among those who vote Democrat. They'll make fine new Republicans after that party implodes and we (hopefully) grow the Democrat base to the point on be able to agree to disagree on issues. Such as how progressive this nation needs to be. There are matters of medicare for all, and of Basic Income that we need to push for that Blue Dogs seem awfully squeamish towards.

Our disagreeable comrades are not compared with today's Republican party... but it is disheartening when they become a voice of "no" towards helping people, and treat others as "us VS them", of suggesting a permanent scarlet letter, a Chinese style social credit, towards every single individual person we happen to have a disagreement with. The hostility, the anger, the fighting. It seems to be rising up and culminating towards something ugly. Personally I think it is regressive to partake in extending such divisions.

Another example is whether we help or hate the voters scammed by Trump. Whether the focus of our message, that they hear, is a path to salvation or the wrath of our eternal damnation. I would offer redemption and a path forward together. Not a stick and an impasse towards greater conflict. The United States is broadly failing the litmus test I think, for people's inclination to help or harm others.
 

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
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Some here are outraged by sexual assault but think the at home salon worker has to touch a trans person's balls.
 

woolfe9998

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Apr 8, 2013
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My feeling is that this is more generational rather than political. Broadly speaking, it seems millennials identifying evil and inflexibly condemning the evil doer without hope for redemption extends well beyond sexual crimes. I agree that it's not a healthy societal trait.
You don't think there's a different standard on the left when it comes to rape, sexual assault and, perhaps, domestic violence as opposed to other crimes? Of course there is because those crimes are bound up with feminism.

Sure, millennials are probably leading the charge because they're more socially liberal, especially on identity issues, than are older generations of liberals. But there is heightened outrage over sex crimes towards women. See the whole "me too" movement.
 

Viper1j

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Jul 31, 2018
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I'm not "speaking" for anyone in particular. All you have to do is read the thread to see what positions people took.
I'm not particularly "outraged", because too many people want to have it both ways. Women say they want "equality", and for the most part, they have it. But then they expect to be treated like innocent little waifs, lost in the woods, and every man within earshot is supposed to be Prince Valiant and protect them.

From what I read in the incident report, it appears that, or at least it was written to infer that he spent the night pouring drinks down her throat in order to get her in the condition in which she was found. I saw nothing in the media reports indicating he had any contact with her prior to be found behind the dumpster. If that's the case, she poured the damn drinks down her own damn throat.

I know it's a foreign concept to most millennial females, probably as a result of no fathers in the home, but there is this thing called "personal responsibility". Perhaps they should learn what it means, and then apply it in their lives.
 
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woolfe9998

Diamond Member
Apr 8, 2013
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@woolfe9998

I'm not at all surprised that he was fired from his new role (a little surprised that he was hired, but anyway): I would expect a person who is supposed to have a lot of experience seeing and judging scumbags like Turner to have considerable experience and be a potential asset in a high school setting with vulnerable minors (young adults too? not American, don't know the age range of 'high school'), instead he encounters an obvious predator and gives him a slap on the wrist. It's not exactly the message you want to send to high schoolers, is it: Go to this guy if you experience sexual violence, and the perp may get detention from this guy. After all, we don't want to go 'ruining the lives' of scumbags who willingly tried to destroy the well-being of other people.

I don't think this has anything to do with 'liberals', I think any conservative person running a public-facing establishment would feel a similar quandary about hiring such a guy. Excusing alleged sexual assault might have a conservative bias, but going light on convicted rapists (please don't quibble about what kind of rapist he is) is something that is generally despised IMO (ignoring cases regarding politicians).

It would be bad if this guy literally could never get another job, but any job that involves vulnerable people? This guy has shit judgement, and would have been responsible for the safety of minors. It was an open-and-shut case. There was no grey area, and he fucked up big time.
"Vulnerable people"? The guy was going to be a tennis coach for crying out loud. They didn't reverse their decision to hire him because he'd be working with vulnerable people anyway. That's your rationale, not theirs. I guaranty they did it because this judge is quite an unpopular guy and the school would have been publicly criticized for hiring him. The problem here isn't the school's decision. They acted in their own interests. It's the political climate which necessitated the decision.

I also disagree with you not wanting to distinguish rape, which involves penetration, from felony sexual battery, in this case, naked groping (clothed groping is a misdemeanor). I'm not going to argue the relative degree of depravity of each act. What's important here is how we assess the judge's decision. He didn't hand out a 6 month sentence for a crime in which you typically get 10 years. He handed out a 6 month sentence for a crime in which you typically get 2 years.

I never saw any data indicating that this judge showed a pattern of light sentences for rape and sexual battery. This was all about one case. Meaning that we are now at a stage where we must agree with every single sentence given by a judge or we fire that judge and make him unemployable.

The judiciary not only needs to be independent from other branches of government. It also needs to be independent of the whim of the mob who gets riled up over whatever type of crime is cause celebre of the moment.
 

woolfe9998

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Apr 8, 2013
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I'm not particularly "outraged", because too many people want to have it both ways. Women say they want "equality", and for the most part, they have it. But then they expect to be treated like innocent little waifs, lost in the woods, and every man within earshot is supposed to be Prince Valiant and protect them.

From what I read in the incident report, it appears that, or at least it was written to infer that he spent the night pouring drinks down her throat in order to get her in the condition in which she was found. I saw nothing in the media reports indicating he had any contact with her prior to be found behind the dumpster. If that's the case, she poured the damn drinks down her own damn throat.

I know it's a foreign concept to most millennial females, probably as a result of no fathers in the home, but there is this thing called "personal responsibility". Perhaps they should learn what it means, and then apply it in their lives.

All of which makes your opinion rather atypical for people on the left in regards to this particular issue, meaning you aren't the sort of liberal I'm talking about here.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
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Would I be mistaken in the notion that the idea of a jury trial was to satisfy both the irrational but inevitable mob mentality of the people emotionally aroused by some injustice while also insuring that reason not passion should ultimately determine the meting of sentence after an objective assessment of guilt?

My guess is that long ago the violence of mass psychosis and the rage that appears with the manifestation of fear figured more prominently in the past before that horrible problem was civically addressed than it does today and that is why we are seeing this retrograde devolution 'all about my feelings, me too thingi. The self, the ego, always asserts itself among the ignorant and unsophisticated who learn nothing from history.

This does not mean that social structures that evolved to propel us forward and protect us from our primitive lusts can't stultify and become moribund, as for example with 'good old boy' shit. But it is the job of the real liberal to set that straight with rational change rather than by petulant childish demands. We see plenty of that in the authoritarian radical left, and the cult enslaved authoritarian right. Each demands that only their feelings matter. Rational people will get dumped on by both sides.
 

woolfe9998

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Apr 8, 2013
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I don't think he needs to be on the bench after that ruling but to prevent him from working in a completely different field is not what I think is appropriate.

And why a tennis instructor? He still should be able to practice law, just not from the bench.
He could. He probably just doesn't want to. I don't blame him. From firsthand experience, there are plenty of reasons to not like practicing law, while being a judge sounds like a pretty good gig. He probably remembered practicing law before becoming a judge and how much he hated it. And probably enjoys tennis and teaching young people.

It's also possible that he's practicing law anyway. I imagine that coaching high school tennis is a part time job.
 
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interchange

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Oct 10, 1999
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There is a significant regressive element among those who vote Democrat. They'll make fine new Republicans after that party implodes and we (hopefully) grow the Democrat base to the point on be able to agree to disagree on issues. Such as how progressive this nation needs to be. There are matters of medicare for all, and of Basic Income that we need to push for that Blue Dogs seem awfully squeamish towards.
Yes, but is there an attribution error at play here. Is this inability a generational trait (or some other source that I missed) that is manifesting as political because many millennials are also liberal?
 
Mar 11, 2004
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I'm not particularly "outraged", because too many people want to have it both ways. Women say they want "equality", and for the most part, they have it. But then they expect to be treated like innocent little waifs, lost in the woods, and every man within earshot is supposed to be Prince Valiant and protect them.

From what I read in the incident report, it appears that, or at least it was written to infer that he spent the night pouring drinks down her throat in order to get her in the condition in which she was found. I saw nothing in the media reports indicating he had any contact with her prior to be found behind the dumpster. If that's the case, she poured the damn drinks down her own damn throat.

I know it's a foreign concept to most millennial females, probably as a result of no fathers in the home, but there is this thing called "personal responsibility". Perhaps they should learn what it means, and then apply it in their lives.
Ok, Bill Cosby. :rolleyes:
 

Moonbeam

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Nov 24, 1999
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Yes, but is there an attribution error at play here. Is this inability a generational trait (or some other source that I missed) that is manifesting as political because many millennials are also liberal?
I don't think that what you are describing here that I would call, the radical authoritarian left. is liberal at all. They are reactionaries whose inner fears are not modulated by reason, same as the radical right.
 

interchange

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Oct 10, 1999
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You don't think there's a different standard on the left when it comes to rape, sexual assault and, perhaps, domestic violence as opposed to other crimes? Of course there is because those crimes are bound up with feminism.

Sure, millennials are probably leading the charge because they're more socially liberal, especially on identity issues, than are older generations of liberals. But there is heightened outrage over sex crimes towards women. See the whole "me too" movement.
I think there is a difference between liberals and conservatives as to what qualifies someone for being an inhuman other. But I don't think the issue here is selection of the proper bad guys. I think the problem is turning anyone into a non-human unworthy of basic rights, empathy, capacity for redemption, etc.
 

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