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Outrage in Stanford Rape Case Over Light Sentence for Attacker and Stmt by His Father

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brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
16,115
5,880
136
Maybe if we didn't attempt to shield victims from any amount of blame whatsoever then perhaps some of them (and even some other people) might learn something and we'd have less victims in the future.
I truly hope no one in your family is ever victimized at the same time since you have long demonstrated an inability to empathize with your fellow humans in the abstract maybe you would actually grow a little bit if it did happen.

Your FYGM is really just a symptom of your inability to empathize.
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,228
975
126
I truly hope no one in your family is ever victimized at the same time since you have long demonstrated an inability to empathize with your fellow humans in the abstract maybe you would actually grow a little bit if it did happen.

Your FYGM is really just a symptom of your inability to empathize.
Don't worry unlike you I'll actually advise them not to do things like get blackout drunk which could contribute mightily to their own victimization. It's part of not infantilizing half the species.
 

MrPickins

Diamond Member
May 24, 2003
8,819
193
106
Don't worry unlike you I'll actually advise them not to do things like get blackout drunk which could contribute mightily to their own victimization. It's part of not infantilizing half the species.
Advising women against putting themselves at risk is not incompatible with not blaming the victim after the fact.
 

jackstar7

Lifer
Jun 26, 2009
11,600
1,882
126
Don't worry unlike you I'll actually advise them not to do things like get blackout drunk which could contribute mightily to their own victimization. It's part of not infantilizing half the species.
"Hey, little lady, you gotta watch your liquor." - guy who is not infantilizing half of the species
 
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Viper1j

Platinum Member
Jul 31, 2018
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"Hey, little lady, you gotta watch your liquor."
Along with, "Don't drink anything you didn't make or see made (in a bar) yourself. Don't leave your drink unattended,. Don't sleep behind dumpsters, unless you're homeless. And don't be afraid to say when you've had enough.
 

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
12,915
2,482
126
Along with, "Don't drink anything you didn't make or see made (in a bar) yourself. Don't leave your drink unattended,. Don't sleep behind dumpsters, unless you're homeless. And don't be afraid to say when you've had enough.
It's just possible that you're such a Dunning-Kruger posterboy that you think you thought of this yourself or you think that adult women don't already know these things.
 
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brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
16,115
5,880
136
Don't worry unlike you I'll actually advise them not to do things like get blackout drunk which could contribute mightily to their own victimization. It's part of not infantilizing half the species.
Like I said you are completely incapable of empathizing unless you've experienced the negative outcome in your own life. Since you can't empathize with victims yet your first and only response is "they must have done something wrong" to be in that position in the first place.
 
Mar 11, 2004
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Like I said you are completely incapable of empathizing unless you've experienced the negative outcome in your own life. Since you can't empathize with victims yet your first and only response is "they must have done something wrong" to be in that position in the first place.
Oh, so his weird tantrum adamantly claiming that there was rampant abuse where guys in the military were getting sex changes in order to pass a PT test suddenly makes a lot more sense.
 
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Viper1j

Platinum Member
Jul 31, 2018
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It's just possible that you're such a Dunning-Kruger posterboy that you think you thought of this yourself or you think that adult women don't already know these things.
I can cite at least one "adult" woman that didn't know those things..
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,228
975
126
It's just possible that you're such a Dunning-Kruger posterboy that you think you thought of this yourself or you think that adult women don't already know these things.
We have pediatricians give lectures to gun owners about proper firearm storage when they already know these things. And yet kids still get shot by unsupervised firearms and women still get blackout drunk and raped behind dumpsters.
 

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
12,915
2,482
126
We have pediatricians give lectures to gun owners about proper firearm storage when they already know these things. And yet kids still get shot by unsupervised firearms and women still get blackout drunk and raped behind dumpsters.
If you were someone else, I'd assume your thinking would soon go full-circle from the above statement and realise that rapists are going to rape and victim-blaming is utterly pointless, counter-productive to their recovery, and shifts the focus from vilifying rapists and would-be rapists who often are spurred on by the idea that their victims deserve it for whatever reason enters their fucked-up heads while getting mixed signals from the society they live in about whether people really deserve to be treated like that (such as from victim-blamers such as yourself).

The logic of victim-blamers such as yourself is to blame people for what happened to them, with no apparent logical boundary. If Brock Turner hadn't found this victim unconscious (assuming that's what happened), then logically he would have up'd his game to date-rape drugs (given his cowardly nature and attitude towards sexual consent), to which you'd say "hmm, got to watch your drinks", but the fact of the matter is that as soon as one starts drinking, one's inhibitions and sense of caution starts to slip and mistakes are made. Logically therefore you would advise no alcohol, even though a date-rape drug could easily be slipped into a non-alcoholic drink, to which you'd therefore advise that it's best for women to avoid going to places that serve drinks. Carry this logic on a few more steps, and logically women should never trust men sufficiently for any potential sexual interaction to occur and they should never leave the house. Maybe it would be better if they never left their father's house unattended until he has found someone to marry them off to?

If there was a logical and direct cause-and-consequence connection between the victim's irresponsibility and them getting raped, frankly IMO victim-blaming is like walking up to someone diagnosed with terminal lung cancer after smoking 60-a-day for 20 years and telling them that if they hadn't smoked so much then they wouldn't be in that fix. Technically one would very likely be correct, but it doesn't change the fact the 'blamer' is a TOTAL ARSEHOLE, and any decent bystander would knock/kick that motherfucker out before any more stupid shit escapes them to hurt a person who is grieving. Considering that there is no logical and direct cause-and-consequence connection between the rape victim's irresponsibility and being raped, the victim-blamer is being a TOTAL ARSEHOLE as well as wrong.
 
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Nov 8, 2012
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If you were someone else, I'd assume your thinking would soon go full-circle from the above statement and realise that rapists are going to rape and victim-blaming is utterly pointless, counter-productive to their recovery, and shifts the focus from vilifying rapists and would-be rapists who often are spurred on by the idea that their victims deserve it for whatever reason enters their fucked-up heads while getting mixed signals from the society they live in about whether people really deserve to be treated like that (such as from victim-blamers such as yourself).

The logic of victim-blamers such as yourself is to blame people for what happened to them, with no apparent logical boundary. If Brock Turner hadn't found this victim unconscious (assuming that's what happened), then logically he would have up'd his game to date-rape drugs (given his cowardly nature and attitude towards sexual consent), to which you'd say "hmm, got to watch your drinks", but the fact of the matter is that as soon as one starts drinking, one's inhibitions and sense of caution starts to slip and mistakes are made. Logically therefore you would advise no alcohol, even though a date-rape drug could easily be slipped into a non-alcoholic drink, to which you'd therefore advise that it's best for women to avoid going to places that serve drinks. Carry this logic on a few more steps, and logically women should never trust men sufficiently for any potential sexual interaction to occur and they should never leave the house. Maybe it would be better if they never left their father's house unattended until he has found someone to marry them off to?

If there was a logical and direct cause-and-consequence connection between the victim's irresponsibility and them getting raped, frankly IMO victim-blaming is like walking up to someone diagnosed with terminal lung cancer after smoking 60-a-day for 20 years and telling them that if they hadn't smoked so much then they wouldn't be in that fix. Technically one would very likely be correct, but it doesn't change the fact the 'blamer' is a TOTAL ARSEHOLE, and any decent bystander would knock/kick that motherfucker out before any more stupid shit escapes them to hurt a person who is grieving. Considering that there is no logical and direct cause-and-consequence connection between the rape victim's irresponsibility and being raped, the victim-blamer is being a TOTAL ARSEHOLE as well as wrong.
No one is directly blaming the victims and saying it is their fault that assholes exist in the world. Fucking no one. None.

What we are stating is that this world is a shit ass place. And no matter how much you want to make believe that there is some kind of la-la-land with magical unicorns flying around and pixie dust farts where no one hurts or steals from anyone - that simply isn't the case. Take a step outside the western world so that you can quickly jump back to reality when you start realizing that this world is a shithole - and if anything you should be blessed to live in such lands.

With that finally said - the ultimate point we are stating is that one should do whatever one can to prevent or reduce the chances of a crime occurring. This isn't limited to rape detective dipshit. I hate having to go back to this point because it's been reiterated time and time again - but It seems I have to because you dumb fucks are tone deaf to facts:

If I leave my home unlocked, I don't expect that someone will rob my house. That doesn't mean that I shouldn't lock my house - because that is a precautionary factor for those that are searching to do robberies. So if by chance you leave for 5 days on a trip and leave your door unlocked - you come home and all your shit is gone. So you call the cops to report the incident since someone stole from you. One of the first questions out of the cops mouth is going to be "Did you lock your doors?"

The cop isn't asking that question because they are blaming you as the victim. They are asking you that because he wants to know if you did preventative measures.

Quick example: Everytime I ever travel - be it to Europe or South America, the one thing I know is that people pick-pocket like fucking crazy in both of those continents. That is something I never have to worry about in the states really. So what do I do? I make preventative measures - I NEVER leave ANYTHING in my rental cars. I NEVER put anything in my back pockets. I ONLY bring the minimum that I need to get by. That is preventative measures. I also know that driving/walking around in a Brazil favela is about as smart as putting a gun to my forehead. I do not do that when I am there. That is preventative measures.
 
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mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
12,915
2,482
126
No one is directly blaming the victims and saying it is their fault that assholes exist in the world. Fucking no one. None.
Starting with a straw man is always a worrying start.

Regarding the rest of your post, there's no evidence that you actually read my post, since a good portion of it is already a counterpoint to what you wrote after it.
 
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Viper1j

Platinum Member
Jul 31, 2018
2,282
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IMO victim-blaming is like walking up to someone diagnosed with terminal lung cancer after smoking 60-a-day for 20 years and telling them that if they hadn't smoked so much then they wouldn't be in that fix. Technically one would very likely be correct, but it doesn't change the fact the 'blamer' is a TOTAL ARSEHOLE, and any decent bystander would knock/kick that motherfucker out before any more stupid shit escapes them to hurt a person who is grieving. Considering that there is no logical and direct cause-and-consequence connection between the rape victim's irresponsibility and being raped, the victim-blamer is being a TOTAL ARSEHOLE as well as wrong.
And since there are only extremes on your home world, then the cancer sufferer is entitled to millions of dollars from the tobacco companies for daring to sell a product he chose to buy of his own free will.

And rape "victims' should get a free pass on everything resembling responsibility, lest they be "blamed". May their lives be totally unfettered, and live in a land of fairies and unicorns..
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,228
975
126
If you were someone else, I'd assume your thinking would soon go full-circle from the above statement and realise that rapists are going to rape and victim-blaming is utterly pointless, counter-productive to their recovery, and shifts the focus from vilifying rapists and would-be rapists who often are spurred on by the idea that their victims deserve it for whatever reason enters their fucked-up heads while getting mixed signals from the society they live in about whether people really deserve to be treated like that (such as from victim-blamers such as yourself).

The logic of victim-blamers such as yourself is to blame people for what happened to them, with no apparent logical boundary. If Brock Turner hadn't found this victim unconscious (assuming that's what happened), then logically he would have up'd his game to date-rape drugs (given his cowardly nature and attitude towards sexual consent), to which you'd say "hmm, got to watch your drinks", but the fact of the matter is that as soon as one starts drinking, one's inhibitions and sense of caution starts to slip and mistakes are made. Logically therefore you would advise no alcohol, even though a date-rape drug could easily be slipped into a non-alcoholic drink, to which you'd therefore advise that it's best for women to avoid going to places that serve drinks. Carry this logic on a few more steps, and logically women should never trust men sufficiently for any potential sexual interaction to occur and they should never leave the house. Maybe it would be better if they never left their father's house unattended until he has found someone to marry them off to?

If there was a logical and direct cause-and-consequence connection between the victim's irresponsibility and them getting raped, frankly IMO victim-blaming is like walking up to someone diagnosed with terminal lung cancer after smoking 60-a-day for 20 years and telling them that if they hadn't smoked so much then they wouldn't be in that fix. Technically one would very likely be correct, but it doesn't change the fact the 'blamer' is a TOTAL ARSEHOLE, and any decent bystander would knock/kick that motherfucker out before any more stupid shit escapes them to hurt a person who is grieving. Considering that there is no logical and direct cause-and-consequence connection between the rape victim's irresponsibility and being raped, the victim-blamer is being a TOTAL ARSEHOLE as well as wrong.
Yeah because no one who smokes 60/day for 20 years and gets lung cancer is stupid enough to continue smoking and get mouth cancer also. If you’re enough of an idiot and to do something stupid and get victimized the first time it’s probably wise to educate them about their idiocy so (hopefully) they don’t continue to do it. Someone who gets blackout drunk and passes out behind a dumpster would qualify for idiot status.
 

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
12,915
2,482
126
viper1j, your straw man aside, I find it interesting how you spent pages upon pages splitting hairs about and saying that Brock Turner wasn't a rapist only to then start putting quotes around the word victim even with regard to rape. As for the rest of your response, you can find various counterpoints to it in my responses to glenn1 earlier in this thread.

glenn1, you seem to have ignored most of what I wrote (in not just my previous post) so there's nothing more to say.
 

Viper1j

Platinum Member
Jul 31, 2018
2,282
976
96
I know your crystal ball tells you Turner was going to ass rape the poor child as a pay per view event, he just didn't have enough time to get the party started. Maybe he was, maybe he wasn't.. Who can say? Oh wait, YOU can say. If you're so psychic, why aren't you at the race track making millions?

I don't know what he WAS GOING TO DO, I only know what he was actually caught doing. And what he was actually caught doing doesn't rise to the level of "rape".

Maybe this summer, you should make a road trip to Pennsylvania and talk to a few victims of Catholic priests..

Maybe then , you'll get a clue.
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,228
975
126
glenn1, you seem to have ignored most of what I wrote (in not just my previous post) so there's nothing more to say.
Yes I read what you wrote but your argument is basically “it would embarrass the victim”. And as for the “logical boundary” it seems a good place to set it would be where they were irresponsible and led them to being victimized in the first place. No need to go into spiked drinks and such when this persons demonstrated irresponsibility involved getting blackout drunk. Sorta like how if someone was speeding you educate then on that and not parallel parking although the later could be a problem area also.
 

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
12,915
2,482
126
Yes I read what you wrote but your argument is basically “it would embarrass the victim”.
No, you didn't get my point. To say something that mind-bogglingly insensitive to someone who is grieving is not something I should have to tell any adult with an ounce of common sense is a fucking stupid idea.

My point was also this: Something truly horrifying has happened to someone: they've been raped. You're taking the time to talk about them getting drunk. This implies that the important thing here is not that they were raped (which is not their fault by any stretch of the imagination), but that they made a silly mistake, and very definitely implies that if they could avoid being raped if they hadn't made that silly mistake, and is very definitely a case of you wanting to wag your finger at them instead of comforting a victim.

And as for the “logical boundary” it seems a good place to set it would be where they were irresponsible and led them to being victimized in the first place. No need to go into spiked drinks and such when this persons demonstrated irresponsibility involved getting blackout drunk.
Yeah, you didn't get my point there either.

Victim-blamers will always find a way to blame the victim. Take the Cosby situation for example, the victim-blamers decided that the focus should be on his victims going to his hotel room rather than the fact that he spiked their drinks in order to get into their pants. Victim-blamers in my experience are never content with playing the role of Captain Obvious / the personification of the 'bargaining' stage of grief and trying to boil victims in their own grief and self-blame as if they weren't managing that perfectly well themselves already, many of them will even go a step further and invent more reasons to vilify the victim (viper1j is an example of that in this thread, talking about her being a 'spoiled prom queen').

IMO it's mostly this fantasy that victim-blamers like to live in that if they live their lives in as wise and careful fashion as possible that they can avoid anything bad ever happening to them.

Surely you should be able to acknowledge that a risk-free lifestyle is a) not a life and b) not possible.

Sorta like how if someone was speeding you educate then on that and not parallel parking although the later could be a problem area also.
Aren't you critiquing your own point here? Someone has just been raped and you're talking to them about drinking, or wearing a short dress, or those heels, or going to a guy's room, or accepting a drink a guy has bought for them, or walking home alone at night, or rejecting a guy's advances bluntly or otherwise, or going on multiple dates with a guy and now he expects for her to have sex with him, or any number of other things that they should be able to do without getting raped.

The fact of the matter is you have no idea whether Brock Turner's victim's drink(s) was spiked (not necessarily by Brock Turner, some fuckwits think it's funny to do that or say help someone "loosen up" because they're so uptight generally), and yet you've spent pages upon pages arguing that people shouldn't get blackout drunk. Other possibilities like a conflict with medication or combination with food intolerance that they're not aware of. Yet you think you've still got a sufficient insight to cast judgement on them?

Furthermore, people don't generally choose to get blackout drunk. It could be that they haven't eaten recently enough for their metabolism to work through the alcohol as well as it usually does, or them having not enough experience with alcohol and say drinking as much as they usually do on a lively night out but in a shorter period of time. The one time I got blackout drunk it was because I made the mistake of trying to vaguely keep pace with a guy whose alcohol threshold was definitely higher than mine (I learnt in hindsight). I have no memory of the rest of the evening and threw up in my sleep. Do you really need I needed some stupid fuckwit who thinks they're worldly wise to tell me that was a bad idea? Now imagine that happening to someone and they got raped, and you're talking to them about the relative parking ticket.
 
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