Outback vs. Forester

[Elfear]

I'm looking for a good winter vehicle that I can use to haul my three kids and for Home Depot duty. I've heard a lot of good stuff about Subarus so I'm pretty set on an older Outback or Forester, somewhere in the 1997-2001 range. They seem like similar models with the body being the big differentiator, but admittedly I don't know much about them.

Besides the difference between the two models, how many miles are too many on an older Subaru? Anything I should look out for?

 

[Kaervak]

Mileage on a Scooby isn't much of an issue, they tend to go forever. We bought an 03 Forester XS with 144k on it this past October that spent its life as a fleet vehicle. It's pretty much fine, thanks to regular company maintenance.

A couple things that you do need to lookout for are head gaskets, piston slap and the timing belt. I don't remember exactly when, but I think the head gasket issue has been taken care of with the 2002+ line IIRC. The older ones had issues with leaking/weeping coolant at something like 60k.

For the piston slap issue, it's not that easy of a fix unfortunately. There are oversized pistons that Subaru makes, but you need to pull apart the engine to replace them. If you need the head gaskets replaced anyway and you have piston slap, might as well knock them all out at the same time. Our Forester has a bit of slap, but nothing I'm too worried about as it goes away when the engine warms up. If it sounds like there are incredibly loud marbles knocking around under the hood when you first start it up, run the hell away.

If it's over 100k miles, make sure the timing belt has been replaced as the Boxer engines are interference engines. When the belt breaks the valves and pistons tend to plow into each other making one hell of a mess. Change out the water pump at the same time too since it's driven by the timing belt. Again, while you're in there might as well change it out.

Also, Foresters seem to have issues with wheel bearings. Ours is making a groaning from the rear going around corners and looking through the service history the right rear bearing has been replaced before, might need a replacement again unfortunately.

There are other small issues here and there to look out for, but for the most part the Outback and Forester are very solid vehicles. Check out http://www.subaruforester.org/vbulletin/ Tons of great info on just about everything you can think of for the Forester and a lot of the info applies to the Outback as well since they both use the exact same power & drive train.

 

[Elfear]

Thanks for the link. There are some good deals in the for sale forum.

I've read about the head gasket issues and the piston slap. Sounds like there is almost 100% guarantee that you'll have an issue with head gaskets for the 1st-gen 2.5L engines. Little scary but I guess all vehicles have their issues.

Any notable differences between the Outback and Forester besides body shape?

 

[jlee]

What's your price range? I much prefer the next generation body style (03+, I think) for the Forester, but obviously that's a personal preference.

The Forester is built on the Impreza chassis; I think the earlier Outbacks were built on the Legacy platform (bigger) but I could be wrong.

 

[NutBucket]

What kind of differences are you after? As stated, they are mechanically very similar. Drive them both and get the one you like better.

A note with the headgaskets; if they haven't failed they likely will but there is an updated gasket that is a lot less likely to fail. Honestly, my opinion is that at this point most cars you run across will likely have had the headgaskets replaced already anyway. The question is whether the updated gasket was used.

 

[Bignate603]

My mom has a Forester of the generation that you're considering. It's back seat is not really a nice place to be for an adult. If you have younger kids they may fit ok, but I did not like to be back there.

 

[Kaervak]

What's your price range? I much prefer the next generation body style (03+, I think) for the Forester, but obviously that's a personal preference.

The Forester is built on the Impreza chassis; I think the earlier Outbacks were built on the Legacy platform (bigger) but I could be wrong.

That seems right since the Forester and Impreza are built in Japan and the Legacy and Outback are built in Indiana.

Edit:
Just remembered another thing that might be an issue, the fuel filler neck on the Foresters can rust apart. Take off the wheel well splash shield and take a look at the filler neck.

 

[Black2na]

1st gen 2.5 motors are more or less problematic if you do get one i would actully buy one were it wasnt done HG and Timing belt or if it was make sure it used OEM parts the cheap parts store parts DO not last but people buy them cause its like 700 for all the parts from subaru wholesale which doesnt even get into the labor outside of that watch out for the rear subframe they love to rot off in salt belt country. and wheel bearings seem to be fairly week but if you take the time find a nice one that was well taken care of it will be worth it and be a great car and go with the outback over the forester and get a 2000+ just a nicer car

 

[Doppel]

It's only anecdotal but I swear that the bodies on subarus are more prone to rust than most brands. It seems to me that most of the ones I see more than 5-8 years old have rust around wheel wells, etc., more than some other import brands.

 

[fbrdphreak]

1st gen 2.5 motors are more or less problematic if you do get one i would actully buy one were it wasnt done HG and Timing belt or if it was make sure it used OEM parts the cheap parts store parts DO not last but people buy them cause its like 700 for all the parts from subaru wholesale which doesnt even get into the labor outside of that watch out for the rear subframe they love to rot off in salt belt country. and wheel bearings seem to be fairly week but if you take the time find a nice one that was well taken care of it will be worth it and be a great car and go with the outback over the forester and get a 2000+ just a nicer car

Dude....PUNCTUATION, IT'S YOUR FRIEND.

 

[Elfear]

What's your price range? I much prefer the next generation body style (03+, I think) for the Forester, but obviously that's a personal preference.

The Forester is built on the Impreza chassis; I think the earlier Outbacks were built on the Legacy platform (bigger) but I could be wrong.

My price range is around $4k but I would be willing to go $5k for a nice clean example.

Here are the cars I'm considering:

2001 Outback Limited - 159k miles, needs a catalytic converter, small oil leak but not enough to drip onto garage floor, local car, asking $4000

2001 Forester L - 109k miles, looks very clean from the pics on Ebay, dealer isn't sure if the head gasket has ever been changed but says it runs like a top, located in New York so shipping would be ~$700, asking $4300

1998 Forester S - 109k miles, owned by ASE Master mechanic who put a long list of new parts on it (new Headgaskets, intake manifold gaskets, valve cover gaskets, exhaust manifold gaskets, crankshaft seal, oil pump resealed with new o-ring, camshaft seals, oil separator plate, timing belt, timing belt tensioner, center timing belt cover, alternator and a/c drive belts, spark plugs, spark plug wires, upper and lower radiator hoses and clamps, water pump and thermostat, both front inner axle CV boots, fuel tank filler neck, front wiper blades), rust on passenger rear wheel well, interior has a few missing or broken pieces, located in IL so shipping would be ~$500, asking $3700 but is negotiable.

Unfortunately there really aren't many Subarus around the Kansas City area. I'd like to see the car first but I may be stuck buying it over the internet. The '98 sounds like it would require the least amount of maintenance costs but it's the oldest and has more cosmetic issues.

Thoughts?

 

[kalrith]

The Forester is built on the Impreza chassis; I think the earlier Outbacks were built on the Legacy platform (bigger) but I could be wrong.

You're right. The Outback Sport was also built on the Impreza platform. OP, if looking for a larger vehicle, I'd stay away from the older Forester and Outback Sport.

If you compare the wheelbase of the different models, that will clue you in as to which platform they use. The 2001 Legacy and Outback have a wheelbase of 104.3"; and the 2001 Impreza, Forester, and Outback Sport have a wheelbase of ~99.2" (the Forester was slightly extended to 99.4").

The Legacy Wagon would also be a good option to throw in there.

Edit: Here's one in your area (albeit a little pricey): http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.j...pe=b&num_records=25&cardist=13&standard=false

 

[BigSmooth]

It's definitely a plus that the Forester you're looking at has had the HG done, and overall it would likely be a bit cheaper to repair since tons of Impreza parts are a direct swap. I love my Forester.

However, if you have three kids I'd lean towards an Outback or Legacy wagon. I don't know how old your kids are, but in general pre-09 Foresters are just a bit too small in the back seat if you have people riding back there regularly.

 

[Black2na]

i would go for the forester with the long service history. the peace of mind of knowing all that has been done with receipts to prove it is best. all the small piddly body stuff is something you can tackle yourself on a weekend out of the 3 the forester is the best bet and the only one i would be looking at

 

[Elfear]

Well I had a chance to test drive the '01 Outback and also a '99 Outback at a dealer. The '99 needed a left CV joint, big thrumming sound at speed (wheel bearings?), and the heater directional controls didn't work. They wanted $4900 and wouldn't budge so I left.

The '01 had a pretty straight body except for a dent near the fuel door and a spot or two of rust. I found out it is a salvage title (thus the cheap price). The missing catalytic converter was noticeable and may have been producing the fuel smell inside the car. Brakes surged when applied which probably means new pads and rotors. The CV joint made a few small sounds but it didn't happen very often and wasn't clicking a lot. Never overheated after a 15-minute drive in 95 degree weather. Hopefully that means the head gaskets are ok. I talked him down to $3500 but I'm still not sure whether I want to buy it or not.

I forgot to mention that the '98 Forester has some piston slap at idle. The owner (master mechanic) said it doesn't affect performance but that worries me a bit.

It's definitely a plus that the Forester you're looking at has had the HG done, and overall it would likely be a bit cheaper to repair since tons of Impreza parts are a direct swap. I love my Forester.

However, if you have three kids I'd lean towards an Outback or Legacy wagon. I don't know how old your kids are, but in general pre-09 Foresters are just a bit too small in the back seat if you have people riding back there regularly.

Thanks for the info. I'll have to try and test drive a Forester soon to see if that will be an issue.

 

[Black2na]

honestly i would avoid all 3 of those cars then.
Forester:
piston slap is very common and could never effect anything or could chomp the motor quickly. hard saying not knowing subaru are not the cheapest cars to repair or have repaired.
01 Outback
cats are expensive and wouldnt cause a fuel smell that means there is a fuel leak. brakes on all 4 corners expect about 2-300 depends on how crazy you wanna go with the quality. and salvage title which concerns me unless i repaired it i usually stay away from the rebuilds.
99 outback
that is a rediclous price for how much is wrong with it granted easy fixes but way to much money for that kind of money you should be able to find a nice clean one.
take my advice or not i do work for a small dealership and the mechanic is a good friend of mine and i help him out quite a bit and end up doing all the body work on there cars they had to have sold 15-20 subarus this past winter from 1997-2004 outback, legacys and only 2 foresters. some nicer then others but about 6-10 of them needed the timing belt and head gasket service. and basicly all the same work the cars your looking at need so take your time find a clean nice example and you wont regret it. dont be afraid to pay a bit more upfront and pay less in repairs!

 

[Elfear]

honestly i would avoid all 3 of those cars then.
Forester:
piston slap is very common and could never effect anything or could chomp the motor quickly. hard saying not knowing subaru are not the cheapest cars to repair or have repaired.
01 Outback
cats are expensive and wouldnt cause a fuel smell that means there is a fuel leak. brakes on all 4 corners expect about 2-300 depends on how crazy you wanna go with the quality. and salvage title which concerns me unless i repaired it i usually stay away from the rebuilds.
99 outback
that is a rediclous price for how much is wrong with it granted easy fixes but way to much money for that kind of money you should be able to find a nice clean one.
take my advice or not i do work for a small dealership and the mechanic is a good friend of mine and i help him out quite a bit and end up doing all the body work on there cars they had to have sold 15-20 subarus this past winter from 1997-2004 outback, legacys and only 2 foresters. some nicer then others but about 6-10 of them needed the timing belt and head gasket service. and basicly all the same work the cars your looking at need so take your time find a clean nice example and you wont regret it. dont be afraid to pay a bit more upfront and pay less in repairs!

Thanks for all the advice. I decided to avoid all of them and grabbed a 2001 Legacy Outback with the 3.0L. With shipping it will be a couple hundred more than I wanted to spend but, like you said, it's better to pay a little more up front for better quality. From what I read the 3.0L has no issues with head gaskets and it uses a timing chain so no worries about snapping belts. It should be here in the next couple weeks and I'll post up my impressions.

 

[Black2na]

awsome! those are torqey little buggers and i like the 00+ body style of the outbacks look forward to pics