Our Vets deserve better than this....

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AndrewR

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
11,157
0
0
Military medicine sucks overall, VA/CHAMPUS/Tricare/whatever. I was not terribly surprised to hear of this, after seeing several different military medical facilities, which are better funded than the VA.

And people want to move to socialized medicine...
 

cheesehead

Lifer
Aug 11, 2000
10,079
0
0
Socialized medicine would'nt have no-bid contracts, at least.

I make a point of harassing any politician I see that does'nt support veteran's rights.
 

jjzelinski

Diamond Member
Aug 23, 2004
3,750
0
0
Originally posted by: AndrewR
Military medicine sucks overall, VA/CHAMPUS/Tricare/whatever. I was not terribly surprised to hear of this, after seeing several different military medical facilities, which are better funded than the VA.

And people want to move to socialized medicine...

I know, I find it ironic too.
 

ericlp

Diamond Member
Dec 24, 2000
6,133
219
106
Uh, this crap happens in every war... Once they get home broken and abused they are quickly and quietly swept up under the carpet... Sorry, I doubt it's gonna change any time soon. HELL we can't even fix the medical program for the average citizen ... I think we need to fix them all. But I don't think it's gonna happen... Health care is not a priority for this country. WAR and GREED and religion is tho. We give billions away to the churches every year. Screw it go prey on someone else's dime lets spend the money on decent health care.


Not gonna happen. The gleeful and fuzzy feelings are over... You'll be lucky if they don't kill you when you show up at the medical center. Health care is bad getting decent service is like playing Russian roulette Feeling lucky? Well do ya punk...

As for bushes fault? Well, we are spending trillions in Iraq. Hey, what happened to spending some of that money on US?
 

AndrewR

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
11,157
0
0
Originally posted by: Cheesehead
Socialized medicine would'nt have no-bid contracts, at least.

Socialized medicine is ONE GIANT no-bid contract. Tell me: Have you ever had any experience with socialized medicine, such as in France or Great Britain?
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
Originally posted by: jjzelinski
Originally posted by: Zebo
I would say no they don't. You don't have to pay the Mujahadeen anything, they fight for free and eat falafel bread and water almost exclusivly. No fancy medivacs, USO, 30 days paid vacation, etc either. If we had something worth fighting over I would too. We need to be getting away from this mercenary Army full of underachievers our pols can use and abuse and back to the basics defense full of people who want to be there for the right reasons (Defense). You don't do that by offering craddle to grave care and benefits. Because wages are so good in USA, Maybe you should provide your own weapon and body armor too. I guess that would sorta put a bit of a damper on all this globe trotting.


??

That was an odd post, Zebo. Exactly who are you attacking here? Even if our Army was full of "under achieving mercenaries", would you really insist on assigning them the blame of bad policy decisions?

Perhaps I missed what must be huge amounts of sarcasm and hyperbole in your post...
Not sarcasm at all. My point was twofold.

a) With lavish bonuses and craddle to grave care we are attracting the wrong people by magnifying incentives that place mercenary values above patriotic values.

b) We make wars too easy to get into because mercenaries can stomach profiting from whatever conflict offensive or defensive in nature.
 

AndrewR

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
11,157
0
0
Originally posted by: Zebo
Originally posted by: jjzelinski
Originally posted by: Zebo
I would say no they don't. You don't have to pay the Mujahadeen anything, they fight for free and eat falafel bread and water almost exclusivly. No fancy medivacs, USO, 30 days paid vacation, etc either. If we had something worth fighting over I would too. We need to be getting away from this mercenary Army full of underachievers our pols can use and abuse and back to the basics defense full of people who want to be there for the right reasons (Defense). You don't do that by offering craddle to grave care and benefits. Because wages are so good in USA, Maybe you should provide your own weapon and body armor too. I guess that would sorta put a bit of a damper on all this globe trotting.


??

That was an odd post, Zebo. Exactly who are you attacking here? Even if our Army was full of "under achieving mercenaries", would you really insist on assigning them the blame of bad policy decisions?

Perhaps I missed what must be huge amounts of sarcasm and hyperbole in your post...
Not sarcasm at all. My point was twofold.

a) With lavish bonuses and craddle to grave care we are attracting the wrong people by magnifying incentives that place mercenary values above patriotic values.

b) We make wars too easy to get into because mercenaries can stomach profiting from whatever conflict offensive or defensive in nature.

Ok, let me start off by saying that you're a dipsh!t with no idea about who is in the military nor do you apparently have any clue about military life in general. Would you have the government stop paying the military and just have us work for free? The reason we have the best military the world has ever seen is because there are incentives for intelligent people to stay in and become proficient at the jobs. If we go back to any semblance of conscription or rely on "patriotic values" (and the military has more patriotism per capita than any other segment of society), body counts will rise, and the military will be incapable of completing the tough missions. Wow, that's a brilliant idea. The US military works because it is composed of professionals, not conscripts who die foolishly.

Have you ever taken a look at the military pay scales? Enlisted folks don't make a great deal of money so I'm not entirely sure where you get this idea that their coffers are overflowing. Officers make a good salary, at least at the mid-grades, but that's a minority of the force and needed to keep those with marketable degrees and experience from bolting for higher paying jobs.

As for your idealistic view of the insurgents, many of the ones currently fighting in Iraq are doing so for money -- sounds like mercenary behavior to me. The Afghan Army has had trouble with desertions because the Taliban pays more. Sounds awfully mercenary there, too. Al Qaida pays very well, from what I've read, which is why their recruitment is so successful among the poor. Remember the suicide bombers in Israel? They used to be funded by Saddam, who gave their families huge payouts after the bombers killed themselves. Pull your head out of your @ss and try using some facts to bolster your idiotic arguments.

Incidentally, what's a "craddle"?
 
Oct 30, 2004
11,442
32
91

As was mentioned on a men's activism website, it should be noted that the government's lack of support for the VA could be seen as a form of discrimination against men. After all, if the VA serviced women, might the VA not receive more resources and provide better treatment?
 

Trianon

Golden Member
Jun 13, 2000
1,789
0
71
www.conkurent.com

I guess the soldiers should've kept their mouths shut?

Army Times

Walter Reed patients told to keep quiet

By Kelly Kennedy - Staff writer
Posted : Tuesday Feb 27, 2007 22:09:20 EST

Soldiers at Walter Reed Army Medical Center?s Medical Hold Unit say they have been told they will wake up at 6 a.m. every morning and have their rooms ready for inspection at 7 a.m., and that they must not speak to the media.

?Some soldiers believe this is a form of punishment for the trouble soldiers caused by talking to the media,? one Medical Hold Unit soldier said, speaking on the condition of anonymity.

....................

The soldiers said they were also told their first sergeant has been relieved of duty, and that all of their platoon sergeants have been moved to other positions at Walter Reed. And 120 permanent-duty soldiers are expected to arrive by mid-March to take control of the Medical Hold Unit, the soldiers said.

............

The Pentagon also clamped down on media coverage of any and all Defense Department medical facilities, to include suspending planned projects by CNN and the Discovery Channel, saying in an e-mail to spokespeople: ?It will be in most cases not appropriate to engage the media while this review takes place,? referring to an investigation of the problems at Walter Reed.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
Originally posted by: AndrewR
Originally posted by: Zebo
Originally posted by: jjzelinski
Originally posted by: Zebo
I would say no they don't. You don't have to pay the Mujahadeen anything, they fight for free and eat falafel bread and water almost exclusivly. No fancy medivacs, USO, 30 days paid vacation, etc either. If we had something worth fighting over I would too. We need to be getting away from this mercenary Army full of underachievers our pols can use and abuse and back to the basics defense full of people who want to be there for the right reasons (Defense). You don't do that by offering craddle to grave care and benefits. Because wages are so good in USA, Maybe you should provide your own weapon and body armor too. I guess that would sorta put a bit of a damper on all this globe trotting.


??

That was an odd post, Zebo. Exactly who are you attacking here? Even if our Army was full of "under achieving mercenaries", would you really insist on assigning them the blame of bad policy decisions?

Perhaps I missed what must be huge amounts of sarcasm and hyperbole in your post...
Not sarcasm at all. My point was twofold.

a) With lavish bonuses and craddle to grave care we are attracting the wrong people by magnifying incentives that place mercenary values above patriotic values.

b) We make wars too easy to get into because mercenaries can stomach profiting from whatever conflict offensive or defensive in nature.

Ok, let me start off by saying that you're a dipsh!t with no idea about who is in the military nor do you apparently have any clue about military life in general. Would you have the government stop paying the military and just have us work for free? The reason we have the best military the world has ever seen is because there are incentives for intelligent people to stay in and become proficient at the jobs. If we go back to any semblance of conscription or rely on "patriotic values" (and the military has more patriotism per capita than any other segment of society), body counts will rise, and the military will be incapable of completing the tough missions. Wow, that's a brilliant idea. The US military works because it is composed of professionals, not conscripts who die foolishly.

Have you ever taken a look at the military pay scales? Enlisted folks don't make a great deal of money so I'm not entirely sure where you get this idea that their coffers are overflowing. Officers make a good salary, at least at the mid-grades, but that's a minority of the force and needed to keep those with marketable degrees and experience from bolting for higher paying jobs.

As for your idealistic view of the insurgents, many of the ones currently fighting in Iraq are doing so for money -- sounds like mercenary behavior to me. The Afghan Army has had trouble with desertions because the Taliban pays more. Sounds awfully mercenary there, too. Al Qaida pays very well, from what I've read, which is why their recruitment is so successful among the poor. Remember the suicide bombers in Israel? They used to be funded by Saddam, who gave their families huge payouts after the bombers killed themselves. Pull your head out of your @ss and try using some facts to bolster your idiotic arguments.

Incidentally, what's a "craddle"?


The only dipsh1t here is the one who thinks we have the best army in the world spending 500 Billion while a group of 10-15K or so "dead enders" spending an estimated 200 million on their efforts hands the former their ass, both politically and militarily. Maybe you mean best at sucking the teet with no results to show for their efforts?
 

jjzelinski

Diamond Member
Aug 23, 2004
3,750
0
0
Originally posted by: Zebo
Originally posted by: AndrewR
Originally posted by: Zebo
Originally posted by: jjzelinski
Originally posted by: Zebo
I would say no they don't. You don't have to pay the Mujahadeen anything, they fight for free and eat falafel bread and water almost exclusivly. No fancy medivacs, USO, 30 days paid vacation, etc either. If we had something worth fighting over I would too. We need to be getting away from this mercenary Army full of underachievers our pols can use and abuse and back to the basics defense full of people who want to be there for the right reasons (Defense). You don't do that by offering craddle to grave care and benefits. Because wages are so good in USA, Maybe you should provide your own weapon and body armor too. I guess that would sorta put a bit of a damper on all this globe trotting.


??

That was an odd post, Zebo. Exactly who are you attacking here? Even if our Army was full of "under achieving mercenaries", would you really insist on assigning them the blame of bad policy decisions?

Perhaps I missed what must be huge amounts of sarcasm and hyperbole in your post...
Not sarcasm at all. My point was twofold.

a) With lavish bonuses and craddle to grave care we are attracting the wrong people by magnifying incentives that place mercenary values above patriotic values.

b) We make wars too easy to get into because mercenaries can stomach profiting from whatever conflict offensive or defensive in nature.

Ok, let me start off by saying that you're a dipsh!t with no idea about who is in the military nor do you apparently have any clue about military life in general. Would you have the government stop paying the military and just have us work for free? The reason we have the best military the world has ever seen is because there are incentives for intelligent people to stay in and become proficient at the jobs. If we go back to any semblance of conscription or rely on "patriotic values" (and the military has more patriotism per capita than any other segment of society), body counts will rise, and the military will be incapable of completing the tough missions. Wow, that's a brilliant idea. The US military works because it is composed of professionals, not conscripts who die foolishly.

Have you ever taken a look at the military pay scales? Enlisted folks don't make a great deal of money so I'm not entirely sure where you get this idea that their coffers are overflowing. Officers make a good salary, at least at the mid-grades, but that's a minority of the force and needed to keep those with marketable degrees and experience from bolting for higher paying jobs.

As for your idealistic view of the insurgents, many of the ones currently fighting in Iraq are doing so for money -- sounds like mercenary behavior to me. The Afghan Army has had trouble with desertions because the Taliban pays more. Sounds awfully mercenary there, too. Al Qaida pays very well, from what I've read, which is why their recruitment is so successful among the poor. Remember the suicide bombers in Israel? They used to be funded by Saddam, who gave their families huge payouts after the bombers killed themselves. Pull your head out of your @ss and try using some facts to bolster your idiotic arguments.

Incidentally, what's a "craddle"?


The only dipsh1t here is the one who thinks we have the best army in the world spending 500 Billion while a group of 10-15K or so "dead enders" spending an estimated 200 million on their efforts hands the former their ass, both politically and militarily. Maybe you mean best at sucking the teet with no results to show for their efforts?

Zebo, you're way off base. Whether or not you harbor certain resentments against stereotypes regarding military personnel, and whether or not that's even fair or even rational, you can't just blame military personnel for how THEY are being used. The military is an extension of the exeuctive branch of our elected government and the strategic (and tactical these days...) decisions are made at that level.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,545
6,144
126
Originally posted by: GoPackGo
Originally posted by: Arglebargle
Originally posted by: GoPackGo
Originally posted by: jjzelinski
Originally posted by: GoPackGo
To the Ultra-Left, these war criminals are getting what they deserve.

more asinine hyperbole...

Main Entry: hy·per·bo·le
Pronunciation: hI-'p&r-b&-(")lE
Function: noun
Etymology: Latin, from Greek hyperbolE excess, hyperbole, hyperbola, from hyperballein to exceed, from hyper- + ballein to throw -- more at DEVIL
: extravagant exaggeration (as "mile-high ice-cream cones")

The left have treated soldiers as war criminals since Vietnam.

Gee, which debate trick is that...Hmn Straw Man? Hasty Generalization. Composition. False attribution. Appeal to emotion...


You doubt the truthiness, do you?

GoPackGo is right. All five people on the ultra left feel that way about our troops.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,545
6,144
126
Originally posted by: ericlp
Uh, this crap happens in every war... Once they get home broken and abused they are quickly and quietly swept up under the carpet... Sorry, I doubt it's gonna change any time soon. HELL we can't even fix the medical program for the average citizen ... I think we need to fix them all. But I don't think it's gonna happen... Health care is not a priority for this country. WAR and GREED and religion is tho. We give billions away to the churches every year. Screw it go prey on someone else's dime lets spend the money on decent health care.


Not gonna happen. The gleeful and fuzzy feelings are over... You'll be lucky if they don't kill you when you show up at the medical center. Health care is bad getting decent service is like playing Russian roulette Feeling lucky? Well do ya punk...

As for bushes fault? Well, we are spending trillions in Iraq. Hey, what happened to spending some of that money on US?

I think this is factual. It is only political heat from the American people that can change it. The fact is that people do not want to pay the real price of war and we will vote out of office anybody who shows us the real bill. You support the troops when we go to war because the public fears terrorism and you forget about the damaged when they come home because the public fears the bill. It's just another form of welfare.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,095
513
126
Let this be a lesson to all who think we should let govt run our healthcare system. The Vet system is supposed to be the best for our defenders of American Democracy and look how the govt performed.

If you think they will do a better job for some low income slob living in a trailor park, you are dreaming.

 

imported_Shivetya

Platinum Member
Jul 7, 2005
2,978
1
0
Welcome to a preview of "universal healthcare"


remember, this is GOVERNMENT RUN AND ADMINISTERED HEALTHCARE.



Gotta complaint, here, fill out a form.
 

Sinsear

Diamond Member
Jan 13, 2007
6,439
80
91
Originally posted by: Shivetya
Welcome to a preview of "universal healthcare"


remember, this is GOVERNMENT RUN AND ADMINISTERED HEALTHCARE.



Gotta complaint, here, fill out a form.

Yep. Standard prescription and cure-all for everything: Motrin

 

imported_Shivetya

Platinum Member
Jul 7, 2005
2,978
1
0
(from a locked thread, response I tried to make)

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Bahahahahaha gotta love the wingnuts.

Is Hillary the President?

Did she put in place this Drug anti-plan debacle?

At least with Universal Care you won;lt have half the Country without health care.

To those with money and used to the current system, too bad, get over it.

Got to love your choice of words.

All the country has health care available to them. No one does without, that is what your emergency rooms pickup - people who seem to think cable/satellite/cell phones and such are more important than health insurance.


As far as your last quote, we will probably end up with a system similar to england. The public gets the Walter Reed style units while those who continue private insurance or part of government gets special treatment (and yes I have friends with first hand experience - they got to boot "non-insured" from a room while having a stay in one of GB's finest)


univseral health care means mediocre health for all of us