Our supposed EV future....(updated)

[Brainonska511]

personally i dont care, i have no idea how much pollution a electric vehicle really makes since you have to ship a battery around the world and dispose of the battery later etc. But my real issue is range and how many people i can fit in a electric suv 😉 give me a 8 seats with 700 miles range and ill bite (well for less than 75k since im a cheap skate.

8 seats and 700 miles? What vehicle with a gas engine goes that far in a single tank? And why overbuy by so much (seating for 8)? Are you running a taxi service?

I feel like my fellow Americans are completely out of touch with what they need in a vehicle, especially with the popularity of land barges.

 

[K1052]

8 seats and 700 miles? What vehicle with a gas engine goes that far in a single tank? And why overbuy by so much (seating for 8)? Are you running a taxi service?

I feel like my fellow Americans are completely out of touch with what they need in a vehicle, especially with the popularity of land barges.

If maximum people transport really was the issue should not these people be out buying 15 seat Sprinter vans?

America has trouble admitting we simply love huge wasteful vehicles for their own sake so we need to tell ourselves lies like this.

 

[Ajay]

This is the type of extremism that should be avoided. You want to encourage adoption, not force it down people's throats and leave them with no choice. Good thing the Gavster is about to be recalled anyway.

Yeah, let's just kill the planet instead - because that's not extreme at all. At least we'll be able to Florida goodbye by 2100.
Oh, and let's not 'force' people to change. Just add a 100% gas tax - and put the extra money towards EV incentives. The the 'market' will sort itself out.

 

[Torn Mind]

If maximum people transport really was the issue should not these people be out buying 15 seat Sprinter vans?

America has trouble admitting we simply love huge wasteful vehicles for their own sake so we need to tell ourselves lies like this.

It's in part due to fashion. Otherwise, station wagons and minivans would be booming rather than an extinct or rare species, respectively.

I can appreciate extra space even though I don't think full-size pickups or SUVs will be on my radar unless I enter a profession or breed myself a Catholic-like family.

 

[killster1]

8 seats and 700 miles? What vehicle with a gas engine goes that far in a single tank? And why overbuy by so much (seating for 8)? Are you running a taxi service?

I feel like my fellow Americans are completely out of touch with what they need in a vehicle, especially with the popularity of land barges.

how about you worry about you and i worry about me. If you dont have a wife and kids thats fine but some people have families and go places. I would like to add 4x4 to the list, and 700 miles is slight exageration but if it is new and has 700 mile range what will the range be in 2 years? 500 miles? that would still be OK, i dont have time to charge up vehicles for hours while on the road. The honda pilot / highlander will easily go 550+ miles on a single tank, and guess what in 10 years they still will do 500+ miles on a single tank! (not that i would keep it that long but a battery wont)

here is a 8 seater with 700 miles range lulz i have a small feeling it will be out of my 75k price range tho that is a soft limit and possibly would spend more reluctantly.

Triton Model H: Electric SUV with ‘700-mile range’ launches - Electric & Hybrid Vehicle Technology International

Triton Solar, a New Jersey-based technology company, is launching its first EV SUV – Triton Model H, an electric SUV, which claims Tesla-rivalling 0-60mph

www.electrichybridvehicletechnology.com

 

[K1052]

It's in part due to fashion. Otherwise, station wagons and minivans would be booming rather than an extinct or rare species, respectively.

This is very much the reason. Automakers figured out they could sell ever larger/more expensive (and more profitable) vehicles and Americans would buy them up.

I can appreciate extra space even though I don't think full-size pickups or SUVs will be on my radar unless I enter a profession or breed myself a Catholic-like family.

The Catholic families I knew growing up that had a mess of kids all owned minivans. They seemed to work just fine.

 

[killster1]

It's in part due to fashion. Otherwise, station wagons and minivans would be booming rather than an extinct or rare species, respectively.

I can appreciate extra space even though I don't think full-size pickups or SUVs will be on my radar unless I enter a profession or breed myself a Catholic-like family.

the only problem with minivans, they dont drive on the sand or snow very well or i would own a Toyota sienna. Right now honda pilot 4x4 with a trailer hitch box for extra storage (cant even fit a ice chest with the 3rd row up.

 

[ondma]

8 seats and 700 miles? What vehicle with a gas engine goes that far in a single tank? And why overbuy by so much (seating for 8)? Are you running a taxi service?

I feel like my fellow Americans are completely out of touch with what they need in a vehicle, especially with the popularity of land barges.

I had a 2013 Altima that would get 40+mpg on the hiway and had a 17 gallon tank, so there you go. Of course that assumes open road, with no traffic jams. Granted, no seating for 8, though.
I think a lot of hybrids might be able to do it as well, since they get 50+ mpg. At least you don have to worry about running out of charge with a hybrid.

 

[Red Squirrel]

What I find funny is the demand for more seats has even hit pickup trucks now. Hard to find a 8 foot box on a pickup anymore, they're mostly super extended cab mini vans with like a 3 foot box, what is even the point lol. You can't even haul a 4x8 sheet of material.

What I'd like to see is an EV pickup with a single cab and 8 foot box but I feel that is not something that is going to ever exist.

 

[FelixDeCat]

Yeah, let's just kill the planet instead - because that's not extreme at all. At least we'll be able to Florida goodbye by 2100.
Oh, and let's not 'force' people to change. Just add a 100% gas tax - and put the extra money towards EV incentives. The the 'market' will sort itself out.

"Kill the planet?" Isnt that kind of extremist?

 

[rstrohkirch]

What I find funny is the demand for more seats has even hit pickup trucks now. Hard to find a 8 foot box on a pickup anymore, they're mostly super extended cab mini vans with like a 3 foot box.

You can still order a single cab with a 8ft bed if that's what you mean.

 

[Brainonska511]

I had a 2013 Altima that would get 40+mpg on the hiway and had a 17 gallon tank, so there you go. Of course that assumes open road, with no traffic jams. Granted, no seating for 8, though.
I think a lot of hybrids might be able to do it as well, since they get 50+ mpg. At least you don have to worry about running out of charge with a hybrid.

And all those vehicles are more appropriately sized for everyday use. We wouldn't be in as much of the current environmental predicament if people made more realistic and rational choices about the vehicles they buy. Many if the efficiency gains we've gotten from engines has gone right out the window as people chose to by bigger and bigger vehicles.

People twist themselves into pretzels to justify owning land barges to satisfy so e weird <1% of time use case.

Maybe it is a bit of telling other people what they can and cannot do, but maybe we need to stop dumping all the negative externalities of the FYGM attitude in society at large.

 

[Torn Mind]

Yeah, let's just kill the planet instead - because that's not extreme at all. At least we'll be able to Florida goodbye by 2100.
Oh, and let's not 'force' people to change. Just add a 100% gas tax - and put the extra money towards EV incentives. The the 'market' will sort itself out.

EVs are more beneficial politically in some respects, and no American should disagree a with stronger stance at the table when dealing with less than savory oil-holders.

Improving the local environments will be better.

"Saving the planet" is something they may or may not do but is great for the sensitive to spend money on them. .

 

[Torn Mind]

And all those vehicles are more appropriately sized for everyday use. We wouldn't be in as much of the current environmental predicament if people made more realistic and rational choices about the vehicles they buy. Many if the efficiency gains we've gotten from engines has gone right out the window as people chose to by bigger and bigger vehicles.

People twist themselves into pretzels to justify owning land barges to satisfy so e weird <1% of time use case.

Maybe it is a bit of telling other people what they can and cannot do, but maybe we need to stop dumping all the negative externalities of the FYGM attitude in society at large.

Trucks are usually made as a rational choice because of the expense to obtain them and the hassle to park them.

That includes the Tacoma and its obscene resale value.

Despite never owning a full-size and preferring the drivability of compact, I find the critics to be more irrational and just arguing from emotion and being "virgins".

 

[rstrohkirch]

Many if the efficiency gains we've gotten from engines has gone right out the window as people chose to by bigger and bigger vehicles.

That's not accurate. All classes of consumer vehicles have done nothing but go up in average efficiency over the last 10 years. That includes the ever growing curb weight of vehicles due to safety and tech.

 

[repoman0]

I wanted an EV for environmental reasons for the longest time, but turns out just not driving as much is far better. The pandemic has shown that as a country we can remain incredibly productive without offices or unnecessary business travel. There’s opportunity to keep it this way and eliminate the equivalent to a decade or two worth of EV adoption in GHG. Not that we can’t do both at once, but personally I’ll be keeping my 15mpg V8 6-speed parked in the garage and out of the hands of someone who will drive it far more 🙂 (and out of the junkyard where it would do a different type of environmental damage for decades)

 

[rstrohkirch]

personally I’ll be keeping my 15mpg V8 6-speed parked in the garage and out of the hands of someone who will drive it far more

If only the world had more heros like you.

 

[repoman0]

If only the world had more heros like you.

One of these days someone will make a real drivers car EV. I’m holding out hope that they’ll be fun at some point.

 

[ondma]

That's not accurate. All classes of consumer vehicles have done nothing but go up in average efficiency over the last 10 years. That includes the ever growing curb weight of vehicles due to safety and tech.

What he is saying, obviously, is that some of the efficiency gains have been cancelled out by people buying larger vehicles, which I think is accurate.

 

[ondma]

One of these days someone will make a real drivers car EV. I’m holding out hope that they’ll be fun at some point.

Depends on your definition of "fun", I guess. But a lot of EVs, (like the Tesla performance models) would be very competitive, if not smoke that monster, and put it to shame on a handling course.

 

[repoman0]

Depends on your definition of "fun", I guess. But a lot of EVs, (like the Tesla performance models) would be very competitive, if not smoke that monster, and put it to shame on a handling course.

I am well aware, but that’s not fun to me personally on a street car (or a track car for that matter). Ludicrous acceleration numbers and skid pad gs are the last things that matter on the street, and a playful lightweight RWD chassis with good steering feel (and ideally a manual transmission but obviously that is sacrificed in EV land) is what I’m looking for on the circuit. Haven’t seen that yet.

 

[Ajay]

"Kill the planet?" Isnt that kind of extremist?

Good point - it'll probably just be 100s of millions of people and other species that'll die. Unless the agricultural business craters, then it's billions. But, you know, with the stakes that low - maybe it is worth taking a chance on continuing to use fossil fuels. /S

 

[thecoolnessrune]

here is a 8 seater with 700 miles range lulz i have a small feeling it will be out of my 75k price range tho that is a soft limit and possibly would spend more reluctantly.

Triton Model H: Electric SUV with ‘700-mile range’ launches - Electric & Hybrid Vehicle Technology International

Triton Solar, a New Jersey-based technology company, is launching its first EV SUV – Triton Model H, an electric SUV, which claims Tesla-rivalling 0-60mph

www.electrichybridvehicletechnology.com

If I just just fudge around with napkin math and say it costs Tesla around $6,500 (2018 numbers) for it's Model 3 Long range battery, and they are far ahead of the competition in Volume. That's an 82kWh pack. The Triton is going for Suburban size class. The Model 3 LR is rated for 353 miles of range. This is going for twice the range, and a huge size (and airflow) difference. Therefore, I'd say they're aiming for a 200kWh pack. That means at Model 3 volumes and economies at scale it'd be roughly a $16,000 battery. I'm going to go out on a limb and say the battery along will cost Triton around $20,000, and as such, I think this will be at least a $150,000 truck.

EDIT: After making this, I thought why not just look up the company and check? According to https://www.tritonev.co/model-h/, yes, they're planning on using 200kWh batteries. So yeah, guessing this is going to be at least $150,000 if it makes it to market.

 

[iCyborg]

There is no "no new ICE by 20XX" statement for Canada. So your deadline is imaginary.

OTOH, municipalities have already been mandating 100% EV infrastructure for new residential construction.

So the situation is opposite to what you suggest, there is no ICE deadline, but infrastructure growth is being mandated. Examples from BC:

Not true for all of Canada: Quebec has a ban for new ICE car sales in 2035, B.C. has set for 2040, Montreal is banning ICE in downtown core in 2030, although no such country-wide ban currently officially proposed, there has been talk about 2040 at a federal level.
So it doesn't take "an incredible leap of imagination" to see that such laws are very likely coming to Ontario too.

Infrastructure laws for new construction are great, but it doesn't address existing buildings. And even here you can see a city here and there with their own plans and policies, i.e. an uncoordinated effort of various entities.
Yes, there's still 15-20 years, I'm not saying we need to panic, but retrofitting an existing building isn't an "afternoon's worth of laying some cable", and in condo-style buildings it will certainly be coming out of tenant's pockets, people do have a right to worry about it even if it's just about the cost. And if this is left to each building to figure it out, I can guarantee not every case will go smoothly or in time.

 

[Heartbreaker]

Montreal is banning ICE in downtown core in 2030

I think it's proposal, but good for them. But you know they would probably even better to just work on car free zones. Those are awesome.

Yes, there's still 15-20 years, I'm not saying we need to panic, but retrofitting an existing building isn't an "afternoon's worth of laying some cable", and in condo-style buildings it will certainly be coming out of tenant's pockets, people do have a right to worry about it even if it's just about the cost. And if this is left to each building to figure it out, I can guarantee not every case will go smoothly or in time.

And more FUD. You act like unless every single parking spot in a city has a charger, it's some kind of epic disaster.

The new construction being required to have 100% EV charging is only part of the infrastructure drive that is going on, there is also charger installation incentives for older buildings, there is more chargers every day in every city, so even without a dedicated spot, you will more than likely be able to charge at a public charger, and charging speeds keep increasing as well, so you probably need less time at a public charger than you do today, and factor in that in 15-20 years there is a good chance that self driving EV Taxi service will drastically reduce car ownership as well, as it will probably be cheaper to just take a Robo-Taxi than it is to own a car.

This is already being hit from multiple angles, and we are still 15 years from a deadline. It really isn't a serious worry.