Our nation's debt and spending our childrens' money

[bamacre]

As our nation's debt grows and grows, there is no doubt that we are leaving massive expenditures for those who are not yet of age to vote, even those not yet born into the world.

Is this fair to them? They have no voice, no representation, no choice. Children are born in this country already in debt, as long as they decide to stay in the USA, and decide to work for a living, they will owe money on expenditures decided upon before they ever had a vote.

This isn't just unfair, this is immoral. This goes against the very principles upon which this country was founded. "No taxation without representation." Have we forgot what that means? If it is impossible for future American taxpayers to have representation, it should be impossible for us to spend their money.

 

[CitizenKain]

You know, if you make another 8 or 9 threads about the same topic, it might not come true.

 

[nageov3t]

why should I pay for what someone else's children's children can take care of?

 

[StageLeft]

as long as they decide to stay in the USA

Believe it or not, but a US citizen could move when they're 20 to another country, never return, and they're still legally compelled to file US taxes each and every year, though they can get tax credits to avoid double taxation.

Anyway, what you speak of is democratic because the citizens here allow it. Moral? Not really, but you'll be wasting time asking for sympathy from a populous who's average credit card debt is $8k and despite being in the richest country on the planet most families live merely a few paychecks away from incredible financial problems.

 

[Svnla]

Entitlement programs = largest federal outlays.

How to fix it? Spend less but everyone know it won't happend.

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: Svnla
Entitlement programs = largest federal outlays.

How to fix it? Spend less but everyone know it won't happend.

Entitlement.. oh like the big ones Defense/military and Social Security. Mind you the SS is what people paid into so its more of a return then a entitlement.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: Svnla
Entitlement programs = largest federal outlays.

How to fix it? Spend less but everyone know it won't happend.

Entitlement.. oh like the big ones Defense/military and Social Security. Mind you the SS is what people paid into so its more of a return then a entitlement.

That may be true if our government had not spent the incoming SS revenues on other things.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

as long as they decide to stay in the USA

Believe it or not, but a US citizen could move when they're 20 to another country, never return, and they're still legally compelled to file US taxes each and every year, though they can get tax credits to avoid double taxation.

Anyway, what you speak of is democratic because the citizens here allow it. Moral? Not really, but you'll be wasting time asking for sympathy from a populous who's average credit card debt is $8k and despite being in the richest country on the planet most families live merely a few paychecks away from incredible financial problems.

youre only half right FYI. There are only 35 countries with which the US has a tax treaty. There is also a foreign income exclusion within these 35 countries. If you have full time residence, you can exclude about $80,000 in income as taxable. If married, you can exclude another $80k. Standard living expenses are also deductable i.e. rent, utilities, etc, up to $1300.

Just FYI.

 

[jonks]

Hey, if I'm able to abort them in utero, why can't I spend their money?

 

[Wreckem]

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: Svnla
Entitlement programs = largest federal outlays.

How to fix it? Spend less but everyone know it won't happend.

Entitlement.. oh like the big ones Defense/military and Social Security. Mind you the SS is what people paid into so its more of a return then a entitlement.

Medicare trumps both Defense and SS.

Fact of the matter is the Department of Health and Human Services(which houses both MediCare and SS), is the single biggest budgetary item equaling 40% of the federal budget. The precentage of the budget increases drastically over the next 20-30 years.

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: Wreckem

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: Svnla
Entitlement programs = largest federal outlays.

How to fix it? Spend less but everyone know it won't happend.

Entitlement.. oh like the big ones Defense/military and Social Security. Mind you the SS is what people paid into so its more of a return then a entitlement.

Medicare trumps both Defense and SS.

Fact of the matter is the Department of Health and Human Services(which houses both MediCare and SS), is the single biggest budgetary item equaling 40% of the federal budget. The precentage of the budget increases drastically over the next 20-30 years.

Wrong on the medicare.
It only made up 14% in 2007. Defense was 19% with SS just a hair above at 20%. by the chart on Wiki

On Washington Post (says it came from OPM) Defense and SS both were at 21% and medicare was 12%
http://www.washingtonpost.com/...5/AR2007020501552.html


So either way I am not sure where you got your medicare numbers from.

 

[GTaudiophile]

How is it that NONE of the candidates are talking REAL fiscal responsibility?

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
How is it that NONE of the candidates are talking REAL fiscal responsibility?

Dems know they have to cut a lot and raise money (i.e. fees/taxs) to get out of Bushs mess. That message makes Bush look bad but makes people not vote for them.

Repulicans think man if Bush got away with that so can I, better not bring it up as i want the votes as well.

 

[GenHoth]

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: Wreckem
Medicare trumps both Defense and SS.

Fact of the matter is the Department of Health and Human Services(which houses both MediCare and SS), is the single biggest budgetary item equaling 40% of the federal budget. The precentage of the budget increases drastically over the next 20-30 years.

Wrong on the medicare.
It only made up 14% in 2007. Defense was 19% with SS just a hair above at 20%. by the chart on Wiki

On Washington Post (says it came from OPM) Defense and SS both were at 21% and medicare was 12%
http://www.washingtonpost.com/...5/AR2007020501552.html


So either way I am not sure where you got your medicare numbers from.

You'll notice he said that medicare and SS make up 40% of the budget, from your numbers they make up 34% Which isn't that big a difference!

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
How is it that NONE of the candidates are talking REAL fiscal responsibility?

They don't need to. The American people will stupidly offer their blind support to candidates because they are ignorant of the important issues facing this country. "America, fuck yeah," never was just a Republican mantra.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: GenHoth

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: Wreckem
Medicare trumps both Defense and SS.

Fact of the matter is the Department of Health and Human Services(which houses both MediCare and SS), is the single biggest budgetary item equaling 40% of the federal budget. The precentage of the budget increases drastically over the next 20-30 years.

Wrong on the medicare.
It only made up 14% in 2007. Defense was 19% with SS just a hair above at 20%. by the chart on Wiki

On Washington Post (says it came from OPM) Defense and SS both were at 21% and medicare was 12%
http://www.washingtonpost.com/...5/AR2007020501552.html


So either way I am not sure where you got your medicare numbers from.

You'll notice he said that medicare and SS make up 40% of the budget, from your numbers they make up 34% Which isn't that big a difference!

And those numbers will do nothing but skyrocket starting this year.

 

[heyheybooboo]

As of this very moment YOU, the US Taxpayer, has ""borrowed"" 4,081,894,247,586.11 from SS and Medicare ...

Federal Debt to the Penny from the US Treasury Dept

 

[techs]

Heck, if the right wing wackos want to give fetuses the same rights as the living, then lets give future people the right to vote.
I just checked. My future kids voting for Hilary.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: techs
Heck, if the right wing wackos want to give fetuses the same rights as the living, then lets give future people the right to vote.
I just checked. My future kids voting for Hilary.

Then it's a good thing abortion is legal.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
How is it that NONE of the candidates are talking REAL fiscal responsibility?

They don't need to. The American people will stupidly offer their blind support to candidates because they are ignorant of the important issues facing this country. "America, fuck yeah," never was just a Republican mantra.

QFT

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: GenHoth

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: Wreckem
Medicare trumps both Defense and SS.

Fact of the matter is the Department of Health and Human Services(which houses both MediCare and SS), is the single biggest budgetary item equaling 40% of the federal budget. The precentage of the budget increases drastically over the next 20-30 years.

Wrong on the medicare.
It only made up 14% in 2007. Defense was 19% with SS just a hair above at 20%. by the chart on Wiki

On Washington Post (says it came from OPM) Defense and SS both were at 21% and medicare was 12%
http://www.washingtonpost.com/...5/AR2007020501552.html


So either way I am not sure where you got your medicare numbers from.

You'll notice he said that medicare and SS make up 40% of the budget, from your numbers they make up 34% Which isn't that big a difference!

And you notice he said "Medicare trumps both Defense and SS" which I stated is false, because it is.


But none the less it all needs to be brought down but most people only think on single dumb issues that seem to require more money so polticans say what will get them the votes and do what they need to do to get reelected.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: techs
Rudy Guiliani as President would be like throwing gasoline on a burning building.

How do you NOT understand that voting for Clinton is the same thing?

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: techs
Rudy Guiliani as President would be like throwing gasoline on a burning building.

How do you NOT understand that voting for Clinton is the same thing?

Blinded by partisanship.

Even Pabster and Prof John realize there are no good candidates on either side of the election. Techs and Senseamp still seem doggedly loyal to their Democrat masters.

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: techs
Rudy Guiliani as President would be like throwing gasoline on a burning building.

How do you NOT understand that voting for Clinton is the same thing?

Blinded by partisanship.

Even Pabster and Prof John realize there are no good candidates on either side of the election. Techs and Senseamp still seem doggedly loyal to their Democrat masters.

Pabst has been quite vocal in his support of Obama actually. Haven't seen much of PJ lately. Must be on, ahem, sabbatical.

 

[Ozoned]

Originally posted by: bamacre
As our nation's debt grows and grows, there is no doubt that we are leaving massive expenditures for those who are not yet of age to vote, even those not yet born into the world.

Is this fair to them? They have no voice, no representation, no choice. Children are born in this country already in debt, as long as they decide to stay in the USA, and decide to work for a living, they will owe money on expenditures decided upon before they ever had a vote.

This isn't just unfair, this is immoral. This goes against the very principles upon which this country was founded. "No taxation without representation." Have we forgot what that means? If it is impossible for future American taxpayers to have representation, it should be impossible for us to spend their money.

Perhaps if all people would follow the rules society sets for them, we wouldn't have to discuss it. You know, like having a small business and avoiding taxes by not reporting. Like selling stuff for profit and not collecting sales tax. Like having income from small business and not paying social security. The list goes on and on. I recall reading somewhere that this costs federal coffers 350 to 500 billion in direct receipts each year.