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Our nation's debt and spending our childrens' money

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
21,030
1
61
As our nation's debt grows and grows, there is no doubt that we are leaving massive expenditures for those who are not yet of age to vote, even those not yet born into the world.

Is this fair to them? They have no voice, no representation, no choice. Children are born in this country already in debt, as long as they decide to stay in the USA, and decide to work for a living, they will owe money on expenditures decided upon before they ever had a vote.

This isn't just unfair, this is immoral. This goes against the very principles upon which this country was founded. "No taxation without representation." Have we forgot what that means? If it is impossible for future American taxpayers to have representation, it should be impossible for us to spend their money.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
2
0
as long as they decide to stay in the USA
Believe it or not, but a US citizen could move when they're 20 to another country, never return, and they're still legally compelled to file US taxes each and every year, though they can get tax credits to avoid double taxation.

Anyway, what you speak of is democratic because the citizens here allow it. Moral? Not really, but you'll be wasting time asking for sympathy from a populous who's average credit card debt is $8k and despite being in the richest country on the planet most families live merely a few paychecks away from incredible financial problems.
 

Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
17,999
1,394
126
Entitlement programs = largest federal outlays.

How to fix it? Spend less but everyone know it won't happend.
 

Vette73

Lifer
Jul 5, 2000
21,503
8
0
Originally posted by: Svnla
Entitlement programs = largest federal outlays.

How to fix it? Spend less but everyone know it won't happend.
Entitlement.. oh like the big ones Defense/military and Social Security. Mind you the SS is what people paid into so its more of a return then a entitlement.
 

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
21,030
1
61
Originally posted by: Marlin1975
Originally posted by: Svnla
Entitlement programs = largest federal outlays.

How to fix it? Spend less but everyone know it won't happend.
Entitlement.. oh like the big ones Defense/military and Social Security. Mind you the SS is what people paid into so its more of a return then a entitlement.
That may be true if our government had not spent the incoming SS revenues on other things.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
20,990
853
126
Originally posted by: Skoorb
as long as they decide to stay in the USA
Believe it or not, but a US citizen could move when they're 20 to another country, never return, and they're still legally compelled to file US taxes each and every year, though they can get tax credits to avoid double taxation.

Anyway, what you speak of is democratic because the citizens here allow it. Moral? Not really, but you'll be wasting time asking for sympathy from a populous who's average credit card debt is $8k and despite being in the richest country on the planet most families live merely a few paychecks away from incredible financial problems.
youre only half right FYI. There are only 35 countries with which the US has a tax treaty. There is also a foreign income exclusion within these 35 countries. If you have full time residence, you can exclude about $80,000 in income as taxable. If married, you can exclude another $80k. Standard living expenses are also deductable i.e. rent, utilities, etc, up to $1300.

Just FYI.
 

jonks

Lifer
Feb 7, 2005
13,918
18
81
Hey, if I'm able to abort them in utero, why can't I spend their money?
 

Wreckem

Diamond Member
Sep 23, 2006
9,333
791
126
Originally posted by: Marlin1975
Originally posted by: Svnla
Entitlement programs = largest federal outlays.

How to fix it? Spend less but everyone know it won't happend.
Entitlement.. oh like the big ones Defense/military and Social Security. Mind you the SS is what people paid into so its more of a return then a entitlement.
Medicare trumps both Defense and SS.

Fact of the matter is the Department of Health and Human Services(which houses both MediCare and SS), is the single biggest budgetary item equaling 40% of the federal budget. The precentage of the budget increases drastically over the next 20-30 years.
 

Vette73

Lifer
Jul 5, 2000
21,503
8
0
Originally posted by: Wreckem
Originally posted by: Marlin1975
Originally posted by: Svnla
Entitlement programs = largest federal outlays.

How to fix it? Spend less but everyone know it won't happend.
Entitlement.. oh like the big ones Defense/military and Social Security. Mind you the SS is what people paid into so its more of a return then a entitlement.
Medicare trumps both Defense and SS.

Fact of the matter is the Department of Health and Human Services(which houses both MediCare and SS), is the single biggest budgetary item equaling 40% of the federal budget. The precentage of the budget increases drastically over the next 20-30 years.
Wrong on the medicare.
It only made up 14% in 2007. Defense was 19% with SS just a hair above at 20%. by the chart on Wiki

On Washington Post (says it came from OPM) Defense and SS both were at 21% and medicare was 12%
http://www.washingtonpost.com/...5/AR2007020501552.html


So either way I am not sure where you got your medicare numbers from.
 

Vette73

Lifer
Jul 5, 2000
21,503
8
0
Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
How is it that NONE of the candidates are talking REAL fiscal responsibility?
Dems know they have to cut a lot and raise money (i.e. fees/taxs) to get out of Bushs mess. That message makes Bush look bad but makes people not vote for them.

Repulicans think man if Bush got away with that so can I, better not bring it up as i want the votes as well.
 

GenHoth

Platinum Member
Jul 5, 2007
2,106
0
0
Originally posted by: Marlin1975
Originally posted by: Wreckem
Medicare trumps both Defense and SS.

Fact of the matter is the Department of Health and Human Services(which houses both MediCare and SS), is the single biggest budgetary item equaling 40% of the federal budget. The precentage of the budget increases drastically over the next 20-30 years.
Wrong on the medicare.
It only made up 14% in 2007. Defense was 19% with SS just a hair above at 20%. by the chart on Wiki

On Washington Post (says it came from OPM) Defense and SS both were at 21% and medicare was 12%
http://www.washingtonpost.com/...5/AR2007020501552.html


So either way I am not sure where you got your medicare numbers from.
You'll notice he said that medicare and SS make up 40% of the budget, from your numbers they make up 34% Which isn't that big a difference!
 

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
21,030
1
61
Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
How is it that NONE of the candidates are talking REAL fiscal responsibility?
They don't need to. The American people will stupidly offer their blind support to candidates because they are ignorant of the important issues facing this country. "America, fuck yeah," never was just a Republican mantra.
 

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
21,030
1
61
Originally posted by: GenHoth
Originally posted by: Marlin1975
Originally posted by: Wreckem
Medicare trumps both Defense and SS.

Fact of the matter is the Department of Health and Human Services(which houses both MediCare and SS), is the single biggest budgetary item equaling 40% of the federal budget. The precentage of the budget increases drastically over the next 20-30 years.
Wrong on the medicare.
It only made up 14% in 2007. Defense was 19% with SS just a hair above at 20%. by the chart on Wiki

On Washington Post (says it came from OPM) Defense and SS both were at 21% and medicare was 12%
http://www.washingtonpost.com/...5/AR2007020501552.html


So either way I am not sure where you got your medicare numbers from.
You'll notice he said that medicare and SS make up 40% of the budget, from your numbers they make up 34% Which isn't that big a difference!
And those numbers will do nothing but skyrocket starting this year.
 

techs

Lifer
Sep 26, 2000
28,561
3
0
Heck, if the right wing wackos want to give fetuses the same rights as the living, then lets give future people the right to vote.
I just checked. My future kids voting for Hilary.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,563
9
81
Originally posted by: techs
Heck, if the right wing wackos want to give fetuses the same rights as the living, then lets give future people the right to vote.
I just checked. My future kids voting for Hilary.
Then it's a good thing abortion is legal.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
20,990
853
126
Originally posted by: bamacre
Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
How is it that NONE of the candidates are talking REAL fiscal responsibility?
They don't need to. The American people will stupidly offer their blind support to candidates because they are ignorant of the important issues facing this country. "America, fuck yeah," never was just a Republican mantra.
QFT
 

Vette73

Lifer
Jul 5, 2000
21,503
8
0
Originally posted by: GenHoth
Originally posted by: Marlin1975
Originally posted by: Wreckem
Medicare trumps both Defense and SS.

Fact of the matter is the Department of Health and Human Services(which houses both MediCare and SS), is the single biggest budgetary item equaling 40% of the federal budget. The precentage of the budget increases drastically over the next 20-30 years.
Wrong on the medicare.
It only made up 14% in 2007. Defense was 19% with SS just a hair above at 20%. by the chart on Wiki

On Washington Post (says it came from OPM) Defense and SS both were at 21% and medicare was 12%
http://www.washingtonpost.com/...5/AR2007020501552.html


So either way I am not sure where you got your medicare numbers from.
You'll notice he said that medicare and SS make up 40% of the budget, from your numbers they make up 34% Which isn't that big a difference!

And you notice he said "Medicare trumps both Defense and SS" which I stated is false, because it is.


But none the less it all needs to be brought down but most people only think on single dumb issues that seem to require more money so polticans say what will get them the votes and do what they need to do to get reelected.
 

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
21,030
1
61
Originally posted by: techs
Rudy Guiliani as President would be like throwing gasoline on a burning building.
How do you NOT understand that voting for Clinton is the same thing?
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
11
76
Originally posted by: bamacre
Originally posted by: techs
Rudy Guiliani as President would be like throwing gasoline on a burning building.
How do you NOT understand that voting for Clinton is the same thing?
Blinded by partisanship.

Even Pabster and Prof John realize there are no good candidates on either side of the election. Techs and Senseamp still seem doggedly loyal to their Democrat masters.
 

jonks

Lifer
Feb 7, 2005
13,918
18
81
Originally posted by: Nebor
Originally posted by: bamacre
Originally posted by: techs
Rudy Guiliani as President would be like throwing gasoline on a burning building.
How do you NOT understand that voting for Clinton is the same thing?
Blinded by partisanship.

Even Pabster and Prof John realize there are no good candidates on either side of the election. Techs and Senseamp still seem doggedly loyal to their Democrat masters.
Pabst has been quite vocal in his support of Obama actually. Haven't seen much of PJ lately. Must be on, ahem, sabbatical.
 

Ozoned

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2004
5,578
0
0
Originally posted by: bamacre
As our nation's debt grows and grows, there is no doubt that we are leaving massive expenditures for those who are not yet of age to vote, even those not yet born into the world.

Is this fair to them? They have no voice, no representation, no choice. Children are born in this country already in debt, as long as they decide to stay in the USA, and decide to work for a living, they will owe money on expenditures decided upon before they ever had a vote.

This isn't just unfair, this is immoral. This goes against the very principles upon which this country was founded. "No taxation without representation." Have we forgot what that means? If it is impossible for future American taxpayers to have representation, it should be impossible for us to spend their money.
Perhaps if all people would follow the rules society sets for them, we wouldn't have to discuss it. You know, like having a small business and avoiding taxes by not reporting. Like selling stuff for profit and not collecting sales tax. Like having income from small business and not paying social security. The list goes on and on. I recall reading somewhere that this costs federal coffers 350 to 500 billion in direct receipts each year.
 

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