Orielly's Dumb question about gay marriage

[Titan]

If you watched the factor tonight, his poll question at the end was "should gay marriage be legalized?."

I sent bill an email, but i'm curious what you think. here's what I said.

Bill,

The phrase "Gay marriage" is a contradictory statement. In Vermont we allow for tax breaks with "Civil Unions" since marriage is attached to religious institutions. In fact, most people don't know that our state passed a law stating that "Marriage" is defined between a man and a woman. I think the legality of a civil union is justified, however the extreme opinions I have heard arise from this controvesial topic reveal a scary truth which is that many people want being gay to be considered normal behavior. It is not the norm, and our children need to be taught that.

I'm curious to know what other people think. Frankly, I think marriage should be taken out of the lawbooks entirely, and we should just have a system where individuals can claim dependents for tax breaks. Keep sexual preference out of the law books unless we're talking molestation or rape. This was a very dividing issue in VT 4 years ago, i basically don't think that the governement should give anyone a break based on sexuality, and that would keep gays who want "marriage" away from churches and disgust people with public displays that only offend people and confuse children.

 

[Martin]

Yeah, legal unions for gays are ok with me, but I do not get why they try so hard to change religion. Religion tells you that being gay is wrong and no amount of spin will change that. These people should just realize what a bunch of BS religion is and get on with their lives.

 

[LilBlinbBlahIce]

I agree, a legal union is perfectly acceptable IMO, but you cannot change religion just to suit your needs.

 

[Mean MrMustard]

Originally posted by: LilBlinbBlahIce
I agree, a legal union is perfectly acceptable IMO, but you cannot change religion just to suit your needs.

Hehe... good one!

 

[RyanM]

Originally posted by: LilBlinbBlahIce
I agree, a legal union is perfectly acceptable IMO, but you cannot change religion just to suit your needs.

Hahahaha. Tell that to the Spanish Inquisitors, the Crusaders, Islamic Extremists, or the of dozens of offshoots from Christianity that have emerged over the years.

Religion in of itself isn't evil, but its very nature, as that of an unquestionable source, lends itself to misinterpretation by anyone with an agenda.

 

[LilBlinbBlahIce]

I did not literally mean cannot, I meant that it should not.

 

[BDawg]

Originally posted by: tkotitan2
If you watched the factor tonight, his poll question at the end was "should gay marriage be legalized?."

I sent bill an email, but i'm curious what you think. here's what I said.

Bill,

The phrase "Gay marriage" is a contradictory statement. In Vermont we allow for tax breaks with "Civil Unions" since marriage is attached to religious institutions. In fact, most people don't know that our state passed a law stating that "Marriage" is defined between a man and a woman. I think the legality of a civil union is justified, however the extreme opinions I have heard arise from this controvesial topic reveal a scary truth which is that many people want being gay to be considered normal behavior. It is not the norm, and our children need to be taught that.

I'm curious to know what other people think. Frankly, I think marriage should be taken out of the lawbooks entirely, and we should just have a system where individuals can claim dependents for tax breaks. Keep sexual preference out of the law books unless we're talking molestation or rape. This was a very dividing issue in VT 4 years ago, i basically don't think that the governement should give anyone a break based on sexuality, and that would keep gays who want "marriage" away from churches and disgust people with public displays that only offend people and confuse children.

As long as people from civil unions get the privilages as married people with employers, then I think it's a great idea.

 

[Alistar7]

In fact, most people don't know that our state passed a law stating that "Marriage" is defined between a man and a woman.

was this before or after they moved the whole state down south? Ignorance at it's finest......


I think gay couples should have no rights equal to a man/woman couple. When their "significant other" is dying in a hospital bed of course they shouldn't be allowed to visit them and say goodbye, they are gay, what's wrong with you people anyway???? lol


How wise were the founding fathers in separating religion from politics? They understood the normal religous person couldn't help but try to make everyone think and live like them, as if their perspective is somehow divine or righteous. If you are not infringing on my rights, I don't care what you do really. I have my own moral code, you have yours, I can survive not trying to impose mine on you, so keep yours out of my face already. What is the problem with relgious people and trying to impose their values on everyone else????

 

[Nitemare]

That is one of my few knocks on the conservative religious front...is their borderline homophobia.

Gays have every right to marry as do heterosexuals....let's just keep it to ourselves though. You don't see me throwing on solid colored clothing and marching down main street carrying straight and proud signs, so they can do their own thing and we can do our own thing and live in harmony...

 

[Alistar7]

"...let's just keep it to ourselves though."

what does that mean?

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: Nitemare
That is one of my few knocks on the conservative religious front...is their borderline homophobia.

Gays have every right to marry as do heterosexuals....let's just keep it to ourselves though. You don't see me throwing on solid colored clothing and marching down main street carrying straight and proud signs, so they can do their own thing and we can do our own thing and live in harmony...

They have a "right"? A Constitutional right? I didn't notice that anywhere in the Constitution...

Hence the question, it would need to be legalized first, so should it be?

It's another one of those nasty questions with no right answers

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: Nitemare
That is one of my few knocks on the conservative religious front...is their borderline homophobia.

Gays have every right to marry as do heterosexuals....let's just keep it to ourselves though. You don't see me throwing on solid colored clothing and marching down main street carrying straight and proud signs, so they can do their own thing and we can do our own thing and live in harmony...

They have a "right"? A Constitutional right? I didn't notice that anywhere in the Constitution...

Bill of Rights
Amendment IX:
"The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people."

 

[RyanM]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: Nitemare
That is one of my few knocks on the conservative religious front...is their borderline homophobia.

Gays have every right to marry as do heterosexuals....let's just keep it to ourselves though. You don't see me throwing on solid colored clothing and marching down main street carrying straight and proud signs, so they can do their own thing and we can do our own thing and live in harmony...

They have a "right"? A Constitutional right? I didn't notice that anywhere in the Constitution...

Hence the question, it would need to be legalized first, so should it be?

It's another one of those nasty questions with no right answers

The bill of rights also says, "All men are created equal."

Which explains why women make 25% less on average than us. ;-)

 

[DZip]

From what I have seen and heard, gays want the same rights as married people like insurance, tax advantages, and the right to raise children. This is fair, but why change the sacrament of marriage to fit social acceptance. Give them the same rights; protect the sanctity of marriage, call it a civil union.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: Nitemare
That is one of my few knocks on the conservative religious front...is their borderline homophobia.

Gays have every right to marry as do heterosexuals....let's just keep it to ourselves though. You don't see me throwing on solid colored clothing and marching down main street carrying straight and proud signs, so they can do their own thing and we can do our own thing and live in harmony...

They have a "right"? A Constitutional right? I didn't notice that anywhere in the Constitution...

Bill of Rights
Amendment IX:
"The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people."

Let's interpret
"retained by the people" implies rights already defined correct? And nowhere in the Constitution are those rights defined.

Now, most state laws define marriage as between 2 opposite sex people. Those laws have not been defined as negating this article.

Polygamy, generally outlawed, can be taken in the same context as homosexual marriages. Polygamy doesn't "hurt anyone", but is generally considered "outside of the norm". It is a reflection of the general beliefs of the community expressed in legislation. But it isn't discussed in the Constitution. It isn't a "right".

Technically, heterosexual marriage isn't a right expressed in the Constitution! Uh oh...

What I'm getting at, is that laws regulate marriage. Laws are enacted by legislation. If a state wants to pass a law, fine. But don't start saying it is a Constitutional Right.

 

[Nitemare]

Originally posted by: Alistar7
"...let's just keep it to ourselves though."

what does that mean?

Do I flaunt my sexuality in front of you? No?...then please do me the same common courtesy. I think that if gays weren't as flamboyant trying to make everything a gay thing, then heterosexuals and homophobes would pretty much let them be.

That's not the case though, ever see the number of rainbow colored bumper stickers, gay and proud T-Shirts, gay awareness week, gay parades....Enough already, you are gay, big whooptidoodah, get way over it already...

I don't wear T-shirts claiming my affinity for eating at the Y, so why remind me of what you like to do behind closed doors?

 

[Fencer128]

I guess marriage is just a religious acceptable religious civil union. Given that I'm agnostic I guess that means I couldn't care less if I'm "married" to my wife or she's my "civil union partner" - so long as the rights of each are equal. Its all language. Let religion keep the term "marriage" if it makes them feel better about the whole situation.

Cheers,

Andy

 

[Nitemare]

Originally posted by: MachFive

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: Nitemare
That is one of my few knocks on the conservative religious front...is their borderline homophobia.

Gays have every right to marry as do heterosexuals....let's just keep it to ourselves though. You don't see me throwing on solid colored clothing and marching down main street carrying straight and proud signs, so they can do their own thing and we can do our own thing and live in harmony...

They have a "right"? A Constitutional right? I didn't notice that anywhere in the Constitution...

Hence the question, it would need to be legalized first, so should it be?

It's another one of those nasty questions with no right answers

The bill of rights also says, "All men are created equal."

Which explains why women make 25% less on average than us. ;-)

The bill of rights said "men" too. It did not say "white men and not all those other mf's they brought from Africa, they don't count". Yet it wasn't until Lincoln and Douglass where anyone made any political move against slavery...roughly 100 years later.

Times change, man in historical documents has referred to all of mankind....black, white, Asian and with or without penis. I might disapprove of 2 men being together, but they are after all consenting adults who can do pretty much anything they want in the confines of their own home.

 

[ConclamoLudus]

Originally posted by: Nitemare
That is one of my few knocks on the conservative religious front...is their borderline homophobia.

Gays have every right to marry as do heterosexuals....let's just keep it to ourselves though. You don't see me throwing on solid colored clothing and marching down main street carrying straight and proud signs, so they can do their own thing and we can do our own thing and live in harmony...

Agreed. Let them have their pursuit of happiness. I am not going to love my wife less because there are two dudes at the Honeymoon Suite down the street. People need to get over it.

 

[Bulk Beef]

The bill of rights also says, "All men are created equal."

Actually, I think that's the Declaration of Independence.

 

[RigorousT]

Originally posted by: Fencer128
I guess marriage is just a religious acceptable religious civil union. Given that I'm agnostic I guess that means I couldn't care less if I'm "married" to my wife or she's my "civil union partner" - so long as the rights of each are equal. Its all language. Let religion keep the term "marriage" if it makes them feel better about the whole situation.

You're right, the wording is meaningless.... until one partner wants to tell how he got "married" the past week but instead has to say the gays "unionized." :Q

But seriously, they can do what they need to do as long as it doesn't require anything from me. I'm not a big fan of their "unionized" rights, because....

I personally view homosexuality as I do suicide -- the government should protect you from yourself, which in turn, protects itself. You can't have everyone turn gay or the population would decline severely I would imagine.. Just as you couldn't encourage everyone to go off and kill themselves or else the country wouldn't last very long.

But as we modernize, contemporary issues alter the course of our nation... and things change. It's inevitable that there will be some arrangement made to accomodate the benefits of unions even for alternative lifestyle couples.

 

[HombrePequeno]

Did you see the poll results though? There's only 19% that said it should be legalized. Legal union, same sex marriage it doesn't matter what you call it, it means the same thing. I guess I just don't understand why 81% of people don't think gays should have the same rights. Granted people visiting O'Reilly's site are probably a tad more conservative than most but that number is more than likely pretty close to the actual number.

 

[abaez]

a tad more conservative heehe and for rigorous, nobody encourages being gay or killing themselves..

 

[przero]

I wonder if "Adam and Steve" will have to pay the same marrige tax penalty my wife and I pay? I will never vote to legalize that particular union, but if that's what the majority votes I can live with it.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Nitemare
That is one of my few knocks on the conservative religious front...is their borderline homophobia.

Gays have every right to marry as do heterosexuals....let's just keep it to ourselves though. You don't see me throwing on solid colored clothing and marching down main street carrying straight and proud signs, so they can do their own thing and we can do our own thing and live in harmony...

Damn nitemare it's not often I agree with you but stop the press. I'm not sure though how much it's a homophobic issue (however I'm sure to support such initiatives could open you up to charge of homosexuality which many find uncomfortable) I think it's primarly an economic issue. With Same sex partners given full recongonition it will cost everyone more money. From heath insurance benefits to social security.

Like all issues which are consentual I don't care what you do as long as it doe not directly harm any third parties.