Ordering system for my computer business site... What do you reccomend?

[Beau]

<< 2 grand for a server?!?!?!?! OMG yeah right, you don't need a dual P4 2ghz to run this thing, my friend in Texas just bought a dual 2ghz P4 and it cost him 2 grand US. for $700 CANADIAN (bit less than $500 US) you can get a 1.3ghz Duron with KT266A motherboard and 512mb of RAM which is PLENTY fast enough, if you run it on Linux, the OS is free AND RedHat Linux has a real good built in security wall. >>



Again do some research. Where's the tape drive. Is linux ready for mainstream business use, many reviews say no. Also, is the webserver that comes with it diverse enough to offer a wide variety of upgrades for growth and expansion in the future, I'd say that it was nothing like a Win2k server box.



<< another security would be a $100 US router, they block all ports except for those specified to be used as the website. >>


A simple port blocker is not an efficient hacker block. They have to leave some ports open and that's all one needs. You need to be able to monitor and decypher all traffic and where it's coming from.



<< DSL is only $17 US per month and as long as you don't actually TELL the ISP that you are running a website they don't give a crap. >>


Now that's honest. Imagine the penalties once they find out. BTW, you are required by law to disclose this information. Afterall, you don't own the line, you're just leasing it. Also, $17 won't get you a decent DSL line. Qwest business service don't start for less than $29.95, and that's the bottom of the line.

<< look at this picture of my current bandwidth use, i bought this computer on December 19 (not quite 5 months old yet) CHECK MY BANDWIDTH USE a good provider will cost you $35 US per month, running it yourself costs $600 for an initial fee and after that it is completely free. 1 year of a provider adds up to $420 US and you don't even get to keep the computer! running it yourself is the way to go. >>


How much marketing do you use? How much incoming traffic do you have? How many costumer come to your site. If he's selling computers, he also has to download and install the updates for all of his computers, which takes away from his U/D limits.

Bottom line is this:

Hosting Costs:
$99/year - hosting
$35/year - domain reg
--------------------------------
= $134 for a full year.


Running it yourself (I'll use your numbers, even though they are wrong):
$17/month - DSL line
$35/month - ISP fees
-------------------------------
$52/month
x 12 months
-----------------
$624 year
Plus $700 for the server
That's a $1300 investment for the first year, and that doesn't take into consideration the time spent maintaining and learning how to use the sh!t. That 10 times as much. Still think it's a wise investment?

 

[Chooco]

why would you need a tape drive?
why are you saying that Apache web server won't be good enough? 54% of the entire WORLD'S servers are on Apache.
my DSL is rated at 1.5mb down, 602kb up with no cap in place, they have no right to shut down the line as it is no worse than leaving kazaa on overnight, they would get destroyed in court.
i forgot to include the DNS registy cost, that is about $10 per year, sorry my bad
did you just say that Win2k servers are actually BETTER than Unix servers? lol.....LOL.....ROFL!!!!...LMGDMFAOOTFL!!!! (you don't want to know what that acronym means )

how can you say that Win2k beats Unix and keep a straight face?

 

[Beau]

<< why would you need a tape drive? >>


You really want to find out?
Name another affordable backup system that is large enough to do a full system image backup to minimize downtime in the event that the server goes down.



<< why are you saying that Apache web server won't be good enough? 54% of the entire WORLD'S servers are on Apache. >>


While apache is great for running hosted sites (which is where that 54% of the worlds servers figure comes from) because it is cheap, low maintenance and what not, but let's say he wanted to integrate it with a backend accounting software, or maybe he wanted to use ASP or another scripting language. True that he can use ChiliASP, but that's just another expense.



<< my DSL is rated at 1.5mb down, 602kb up with no cap in place, they have no right to shut down the line as it is no worse than leaving kazaa on overnight, they would get destroyed in court. >>


If you truely have no limit, I would be very surprised. Bandwidth is a very expensive thing, and it does not go unmonitored, I guarantee it.



<< i forgot to include the DNS registy cost, that is about $10 per year. >>


Included if you have your site hosted.



<< did you just say that Win2k servers are actually BETTER than Unix servers? lol.....LOL.....ROFL!!!!...LMGDMFAOOTFL!!!! how can you say that Win2k beats Unix and keep a straight face? >>


Did you actually read my post. How could it be econical for a small business owner to run UNIX (btw, when were we talking about unix. I thought we were talking about linux). Unless he wants to get into the nittygritty of learning a *nix system, he'll have to contract that out $$$. Again, it has to be scalable for his future growth and have a good abundance of software options. *nix is a great system, but is not for a small business. It requires a lot of configuration, a lot of time to do so, and a lot of patience to learn it. Win2k server is however. It also has a lot of sofware options, great connectivity to other computer types, a good web/ftp/snmp/news server, good network monitoring and logging as well as it being stable as a rock. That's how I can, and many, many others can say it and keep a straight face. There's a reason why it's quickly taking over corporate america you know.

 

[Beau]

Anyway, I'm done arguing with you. I've made my point. I'll check back on this tomorrow. It's 2:30 am here and I'm off to bed.

 

[Chooco]

ok you win the tape drive thing but that is all
if you need to run ASP then you get the PLUGIN for apache, apache supports anything there is: HTML, PHP, Perl, ASP or any other type of thing you can think of.
Linux basically IS Unix, it has the exact same commands, it has the same power and it runs the exact same applications, if you can get it for Unix, you can get it for Linux. learning Linux is not that hard, my buddy bought a $50 book (like $30 US) that explained absolutely EVERYTHING relating to Linux.
you can very easily host a DNS from your Linux computer, the how-to is in the later chapters of the book. if you RTFM, you will never go wrong unless you are missing files or misinterpreted something, that is why so many people love Linux (partly).
no my bandwidht is not monitored, on the webpage for my ISP it says in these exact word "maximum download of 5GB per month and maximum upload of 1GB per month" i have exceeded that limit 23 times every month
with Linux he could also create a mailing list by using a FREE mail server, i have only see 2 mail servers for windows and NEITHER of them actually work, the starting price is like $120 for one that you pay for (US dollars)

 

[joohang]

<< Well, if you are just learning, I'd recommend starting out with ASP. It's based on Visual Basic, which is very easy to pick up with. >>


ASP is actually an ISAPI extension. What is based on VB is VBScript, which is the scripting engine that interprets the script code in ASP pages.

Just being picky.

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Instead of immediately putting all drivers and stuff on the site itself you can just put up links to the download pages of those companies. You can always later on provide the downloads yourself, but this will allow you to get it up and running faster.
Also you might, if you have no coding experience whatsoever, want to start off with just setting up a basic webform where they select the different components and then can mail those to you with a submit button. Building a site like Dell's may take a bit more knowledge.

For hard-/software I'd also recomment a not too expensive system with just a lot of memory, maybe a SCSI harddisk or two (RAID 1, so your business doesn't go down when the harddisk crashes), and Linux as OS. A basic Linux webserver is very easy to setup, and is pretty fast. Or you could try checking a company like Webaxxs which provides a webserver with good speed and uptime for about $30/month. If it goes down they'll fix the problems, and you have always a helpdesk to fall back on in case you have questions.

 

[Beau]

<<

<< Well, if you are just learning, I'd recommend starting out with ASP. It's based on Visual Basic, which is very easy to pick up with. >>

ASP is actually an ISAPI extension. What is based on VB is VBScript, which is the scripting engine that interprets the script code in ASP pages. Just being picky. >>



Okay, you got me there but I was trying to not confuse him

 

[Beau]

<< ok you win the tape drive thing but that is all if you need to run ASP then you get the PLUGIN for apache, apache supports anything there is: HTML, PHP, Perl, ASP or any other type of thing you can think of. >>


So can IIS. The question is does Apache (on a *nix box) support COM+ Objects? How about connections to MS Access databases?



<< Linux basically IS Unix, it has the exact same commands, it has the same power and it runs the exact same applications, if you can get it for Unix, you can get it for Linux. >>


The difference between Linux and Unix is that Unix has been matured and is acceptable to use as a business software. The jury is still out out on the fledgling linux.



<< learning Linux is not that hard, my buddy bought a $50 book (like $30 US) that explained absolutely EVERYTHING relating to Linux. >>


Not hard comared to what? Microsoft did something right when they designed the Windows OS, they made it easy and self-managed.

Now don't get me wrong, I really like *nix, but I wouldn't recommend it for use on a small business computer. Enterprise maybe, but not small business, especially on a server. Running Linux on a workstation that does not have critical data is alright.



<< you can very easily host a DNS from your Linux computer >>


You can do it with Win2k server as well. But the point is the hassle of trying to do it. If you host, you don't have to bother with it.



<< the how-to is in the later chapters of the book. if you RTFM, you will never go wrong unless you are missing files or misinterpreted something, that is why so many people love Linux (partly). >>


While it's true that you can learn Linux, it's a question of whether or not its worth the time and hassle.



<< no my bandwidht is not monitored, on the webpage for my ISP it says in these exact word "maximum download of 5GB per month and maximum upload of 1GB per month" i have exceeded that limit 23 times every month >>


Notice the bold. If there is a limit, it is monitored. Even though they haven't shut you off, that doesn't mean that every ISP is like that.
You download 5 gb, 23 times a month? Even on your connection that would be almost impossible.



<< with Linux he could also create a mailing list by using a FREE mail server >>


Comes with the hosting package. Not to mention virus scanning, spam blocking, web-email access, and the absence of the hassle of administering it.

 

[Wizkid]

<< ok you win the tape drive thing but that is all if you need to run ASP then you get the PLUGIN for apache, apache supports anything there is: HTML, PHP, Perl, ASP or any other type of thing you can think of.

So can IIS. The question is does Apache (on a *nix box) support COM+ Objects? How about connections to MS Access databases? >>



Use whatever works best with what you are trying to do. Ex: For ASP IIS is best, for PHP apache is best.

You cannot question the suitability of Linux for this task. It is without a doubt the most popular platform for sites just like this. Ask anyone who runs a small business website off linux how many problems they have had, then do the same thing with IIS. The results may surpize you...

If you don't know Linux already, then don't run your own Linux server and put your business on the line. Either use something that you already know or pay someone else to manage your server (ie, pay for shared hosting, it's cheaper and you don't have to worry about anything).

Hosting a site yourself, for business use, is not usually smart. It is expensive to do it right, so for one site it's usually better to just pay someone else.

As for what you need to make your site: I recommend PHP as the programming language. It is flexible, powerful and multiplatform. Definitely use a database to store your parts/prices/orders as it makes things easier to update/track/manage. Microsoft SQL Server is very good for the price, but overkill for a small site. Something like MySQL is a good free solution. Microsoft Access can cause a lot of problems so I suggest you avoid it. It's not designed for this type of thing anyways. I develop sites just like that for a living and I use PHP and MySQL... works very well. If you need some help just send me an email...

 

[aphex]

Wow, awesome responces guys... Haha, took me awhile to sort through them all...

As for hosting, i dont currently have the funds to take on such an endeavor on my own. I already have a few hosting packages with various companies, so i will use one of them to run the site off of.

As for languages, i think ASP or PHP seems to be the best way for me to go. Im gonna run over to B&N in a few mins and check out some books on each, to help me decide which will be right for me.

Out of the two, which do you think has the easiest learning curve and the most flexibility? (Im coming from an HTML and some C++ background)

 

[Beau]

<< Wow, awesome responces guys... Haha, took me awhile to sort through them all... As for hosting, i dont currently have the funds to take on such an endeavor on my own. I already have a few hosting packages with various companies, so i will use one of them to run the site off of. As for languages, i think ASP or PHP seems to be the best way for me to go. Im gonna run over to B&N in a few mins and check out some books on each, to help me decide which will be right for me. Out of the two, which do you think has the easiest learning curve and the most flexibility? (Im coming from an HTML and some C++ background) >>



If you're coming from the C++ experience, go with PHP or Perl. I personally found ASP easier to learn, but I also use PHP quite a bit and really like it.

 

[Wizkid]

Coming from C++ you will have no problem with PHP and will appreciate the extra flexibility and power compared to ASP

 

[Shuxclams]

Linux - Apache - MySQL - PHP. There are some great things out there and if you have even a little knowledge on programming it'll be a breeze.













SHUX

 

[joohang]

If you are coming from C++ background and you are already quite familiar with OOP, go for ASP.NET instead.

ASP is suck.

ASP.NET Web Forms will save you tons of unnecessary HTML coding.

I am not sure if you attended one of those free VS.NET launch events, but if you happen to have VS.NET, you can also code in a strongly-typed .NET language with full IntelliSense, debugging features, etc etc.

 

[aphex]

<< If you are coming from C++ background and you are already quite familiar with OOP, go for ASP.NET instead.

ASP is suck.

ASP.NET Web Forms will save you tons of unnecessary HTML coding.

I am not sure if you attended one of those free VS.NET launch events, but if you happen to have VS.NET, you can also code in a strongly-typed .NET language with full IntelliSense, debugging features, etc etc. >>



Actually, i get it for free for being a business student at UF, should i d/l it???

 

[Beau]

<< If you are coming from C++ background and you are already quite familiar with OOP, go for ASP.NET instead. ASP is suck. ASP.NET Web Forms will save you tons of unnecessary HTML coding. I am not sure if you attended one of those free VS.NET launch events, but if you happen to have VS.NET, you can also code in a strongly-typed .NET language with full IntelliSense, debugging features, etc etc. >>



ASP is not suck, but I agree that ASP.NET is a lot better

 

[joohang]

<< ASP is not suck, but I agree that ASP.NET is a lot better >>


Well ASP is not bad as long as it is used for what it was designed for.

But if ASP is "abused" just as Access often "replaces" SQL Server, then there are problems.

And since he has to learn something new any ways, might as well go for the latest goodies.

aphexII, if you get Visual Studio .NET for "free" any ways, go for it.

 

[Adul]

so how are you liking VS.net? i was thinking of using it to edit my forums.

 

[joohang]

<< so how are you liking VS.net? i was thinking of using it to edit my forums. >>


VS.NET is not designed to edit ASP, although you could. I don't see why you would, though.

 

[notfred]

Who's stupid idea was it to move this thread to general hardware?

 

[amdskip]

<< Who's stupid idea was it to move this thread to general hardware? >>



Musta been the mod from the short bus

 

[aphex]

<< Who's stupid idea was it to move this thread to general hardware? >>



Yea, i was curious about this too... The mod sent me this:




<< AphexII,

I have moved your thread to our forum. It is too ON topic for Off Topic.

Thanks for understanding,

AnandTech Moderator
>>

 

[Hector13]

I am surprised no one has mention java servlets (or JSP). linux + apache + tomcat is a very easy and cheap setup (you don't even need apache if you are not getting 100s of hits a minute). Provides easy database access to postgres or mysql, oracle, sybase, whatever else (except for ms access).

In any case, if you are coming from C++, java will be much more familiar looking than PHP or ASP.

 

[Beau]

<<

<< Who's stupid idea was it to move this thread to general hardware? >>

Yea, i was curious about this too... The mod sent me this:

<< AphexII, I have moved your thread to our forum. It is too ON topic for Off Topic. Thanks for understanding, AnandTech Moderator >>

>>

If anything this should be in software or programming. Not GH.