Orange stain second term results thread

[repoman0]

We’re not overpopulated from a housing perspective obviously, that’s a policy choice. Hard to look past the millions of newly extinct species, disappeared ancient forests, wrecked environment and think “yep don’t think there are too many of the ones who did all that”.

 

[Brainonska511]

We’re not overpopulated from a housing perspective obviously, that’s a policy choice. Hard to look past the millions of newly extinct species, disappeared ancient forests, wrecked environment and think “yep don’t think there are too many of the ones who did all that”.

That again seems more like a policy choice.

We are pushing into natural areas and burning shit tons of fossil fuels when we don't have to. But the idea that we should have any sort of self-sacrifice to make the world a slightly better place is an anathema to many people.

 

[K1052]

And power projection around the world, to you know, maintain our support around the world and protect our economic interests...

There is certainly some spending that might be wasteful, but some of that has been mandated by the people (ie, Congress) - looking at you A-10... But that's not going to be nearly as much savings as these clowns think.

Going to be funny if Musk defunds US shipbuilding and says we can just order from the Koreans instead for half the price.

 

[Indus]

Going to be funny if Musk defunds US shipbuilding and says we can just order from the Koreans instead for half the price.

You forgot the part where Trump slaps them with tariffs increasing the actual cost.

 

[repoman0]

That again seems more like a policy choice.

We are pushing into natural areas and burning shit tons of fossil fuels when we don't have to. But the idea that we should have any sort of self-sacrifice to make the world a slightly better place is an anathema to many people.

Correct, but the same policy choices to burn down everything around us get made time and time again with few exceptions. Over the long term, the policy choices are statistically meaningless IMO because it only takes minor deviations from the mean for some small group of humans to permanently destroy something that took millions of years to evolve or chop down a forest that took thousands of years to develop and grow.

 

[FelixDeCat]

No. He's very far from the truth. We are not overpopulated. There is a housing crisis in many areas where people want to live, but that is not driven by overpopulation.

As for European countries, the living standards are different - in some ways better, and probably in some ways worse (especially with what Americans are used to). People don't live in larger apartments and homes in much of Europe, taxes are much higher, and household incomes are substantially lower.

Obviously we are not going to see eye to eye on the population crises. But its symptoms are many including lack of clean drinking water, obscene amounts of pollution everywhere and of course, global warming due to fossil fuel use and over development (concrete jungles and road paving trapping in heat).

There are many overpopulation deniers but in reality is Earth was not meant for this level of inhabitance IMO.

 

[Brainonska511]

Correct, but the same policy choices to burn down everything around us get made time and time again with few exceptions. Over the long term, the policy choices are statistically meaningless IMO because it only takes minor deviations from the mean for some small group of humans to permanently destroy something that took millions of years to evolve or chop down a forest that took thousands of years to develop and grow.

Yes, but that's also just a psychology thing. Policies that could be beneficial for everyone overall have nebulous beneficiaries, whereas the perceived "harms" fall on specific people who end up being incredibly loud.

 

[Brainonska511]

Obviously we are not going to see eye to eye on the population crises. But its symptoms are many including lack of clean drinking water, obscene amounts of pollution everywhere and of course, global warming due to fossil fuel use and over development (concrete jungles and road paving trapping in heat).

There are many overpopulation deniers but in reality is Earth was not meant for this level of inhabitance IMO.

The late 60s called, they want their incorrect "Population Bomb" ideas back.

Transportation-related pollution is directly related to choices we've made to sprawl, over-rely on personal automobiles, and give up on rail deliveries. We also have gotten better about pollution. Our cities are no longer coated in smog and we don't have to worry about our rivers catching on fire.

 

[pmv]

I think he's not far from the truth actually.

Overpopulation and inequality would be right on the money.

A lesser population might actually be more well off.. and I'm referring to European countries where the living standards are far better than our American ones.. especially healthcare which I truly care about.

Huh? The US is far less densely-populated than most of Europe. It also takes fewer migrants each year relative to the physical size of the country or its GDP.

The proportion of 'foreign born residents' in the US population is about middle-of-the-pack compared to Europe, slightly lower than that of the UK, but it's a much more thinly-populated country to start with.

 

[pmv]

I think he's not far from the truth actually.

Overpopulation and inequality would be right on the money.

A lesser population might actually be more well off.. and I'm referring to European countries where the living standards are far better than our American ones.. especially healthcare which I truly care about.

Vs say a large population where the resources are spread way too thin.. like ours or worse off like China, India, Bangladesh, Malaysia, Pakistan etc where you're in danger of not even having enough vaccines for polio even though the demand is there.

UK population density is 279 people per square kilometre

The population density of the United States is 38 per square Kilometer

Who are the new immigrants? | Brookings

Despite some recent attempts to create alternatives, asylum-seekers generally must present themselves on U.S. soil to make a claim.

www.brookings.edu

Earlier this year, the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) released estimates suggesting that net immigration—inflows minus outflows—was 3.3 million in 2023.

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn06077/

The latest estimates on migration from the Office for National Statistics (ONS) suggest that in 2023:

1.2 million people migrated into the UK and 479,000 people emigrated from it, leaving a net migration figure of 782,000.

So the US, which is 40 times the area of the UK, took 3.3million inward migrants, while the UK took about 0.8million. i.e. the US, being 40 times larger, took 4 times as many migrants.

The US is virtually empty, and takes very few migrants compared to much more densely-populated countries. So I have no idea what your comment is supposed to mean.

 

[IronWing]

UK population density is 279 people per square kilometre

The population density of the United States is 38 per square Kilometer

Who are the new immigrants? | Brookings

Despite some recent attempts to create alternatives, asylum-seekers generally must present themselves on U.S. soil to make a claim.

www.brookings.edu

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn06077/

So the US, which is 40 times the area of the UK, took 3.3million inward migrants, while the UK took about 0.8million. i.e. the US, being 40 times larger, took 4 times as many migrants.

The US is virtually empty, and takes very few migrants compared to much more densely-populated countries. So I have no idea what your comment is supposed to mean.

Now subtract taiga and deserts from the US geographic area.

 

[Indus]

Huh? The US is far less densely-populated than most of Europe. It also takes fewer migrants each year relative to the physical size of the country or its GDP.

The proportion of 'foreign born residents' in the US population is about middle-of-the-pack compared to Europe, slightly lower than that of the UK, but it's a much more thinly-populated country to start with.

Please just stop with the migrant topic already.

It lost dems the election and we got Trump.

The dems should never be caught with their pants down on this topic ever again and for what.. for people who can't even fucking vote for them or prefer a strong man like Trump anyways like those Venezuelans??

Eventually you'll realize as I have.. the voting block is not a monolith of purists like squishy who calls everyone else a racist and xenophobe. People like squishy are an extremely small slice compared to the general electorate which is made up of tranches of people who don't like migrants, who are feeling threatened by them, who don't like funds being spent on migrants more than their own services and those same people voted to trust a conman over dems just because of this one topic.

 

[pmv]

Please just stop with the migrant topic already.

Um, you are the one who bought up the topic of 'overpopulation'. How about you just stop with that topic, given that your claim was nonsense?

 

[FelixDeCat]

You guys got it all wrong. Population density is a quality of life issue. Too many people and world is an overheated, polluted slum who are breeding faster and faster. Population must remain under control otherwise we have mayhem.

Population used to be controlled naturally over millennia by starvation, disease and war. These control measures have been thwarted to our detriment.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

The root cause of societies problems is overpopulation, therefore celibacy should be promoted and celebrated. It is easy to fuck anything that moves and abandon babies in your wake. It is hard to have the discipline and morals to be faithful your entire life to one person, no matter how out of shape both of you get. Not that I am fit or anything, but still.

As far as coding, I can program in Basic.

So an incel and a cheater? Wonder how you became an incel.

 

[Indus]

Um, you are the one who bought up the topic of 'overpopulation'. How about you just stop with that topic, given that your claim was nonsense?

No overpopulation isn't exactly due to migrants.. they sometimes come together but they're independent issues. We're not Qatar or Dubai where we have like 750 migrants for every 100 citizens.

My argument was with overpopulation the resources, specifically medical resources get spread far too thin amongst the general population.

 

[repoman0]

UK population density is 279 people per square kilometre

The population density of the United States is 38 per square Kilometer

Who are the new immigrants? | Brookings

Despite some recent attempts to create alternatives, asylum-seekers generally must present themselves on U.S. soil to make a claim.

www.brookings.edu

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn06077/

So the US, which is 40 times the area of the UK, took 3.3million inward migrants, while the UK took about 0.8million. i.e. the US, being 40 times larger, took 4 times as many migrants.

The US is virtually empty, and takes very few migrants compared to much more densely-populated countries. So I have no idea what your comment is supposed to mean.

No offense, but I don’t think the UK is something to aspire to here considering you deforested your entire country.

“In November 2023, a study conducted by 42 researchers, with 1,200 experts consulted, warned that UK forests are heading for "catastrophic ecosystem collapse" within the next 50 years due to multiple threats including disease, extreme weather and wildfires.”

Forestry in the United Kingdom - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

I am pretty uninterested overall in “can more people fit” and more with how do we stop the ecology of the entire planet from collapsing. The migrant BS is a red herring to me and has nothing to do with the actual problem. I would very gladly accept many more people from Brazil here for example if it meant they stop burning down the Amazon. (And also just accept them generally)

 

[sdifox]

Please just stop with the migrant topic already.

It lost dems the election and we got Trump.

The dems should never be caught with their pants down on this topic ever again and for what.. for people who can't even fucking vote for them or prefer a strong man like Trump anyways like those Venezuelans??

Eventually you'll realize as I have.. the voting block is not a monolith of purists like squishy who calls everyone else a racist and xenophobe. People like squishy are an extremely small slice compared to the general electorate which is made up of tranches of people who don't like migrants, who are feeling threatened by them, who don't like funds being spent on migrants more than their own services and those same people voted to trust a conman over dems just because of this one topic.

No, Trump won because the racists were more motivated than the moderates in voting.

 

[gothuevos]

I think he's not far from the truth actually.

Overpopulation and inequality would be right on the money.

A lesser population might actually be more well off.. and I'm referring to European countries where the living standards are far better than our American ones.. especially healthcare which I truly care about.

Vs say a large population where the resources are spread way too thin.. like ours or worse off like China, India, Bangladesh, Malaysia, Pakistan etc where you're in danger of not even having enough vaccines for polio even though the demand is there.

Be very careful where you go next with this train of thought.

My guy, I feel like you are becoming radicalized right in front of our very eyes. I get that you are passionate about some issues, but lately it just seems like lashing out. IMO. Hope you are good.

 

[gothuevos]

Please just stop with the migrant topic already.

It lost dems the election and we got Trump.

The dems should never be caught with their pants down on this topic ever again and for what.. for people who can't even fucking vote for them or prefer a strong man like Trump anyways like those Venezuelans??

Eventually you'll realize as I have.. the voting block is not a monolith of purists like squishy who calls everyone else a racist and xenophobe. People like squishy are an extremely small slice compared to the general electorate which is made up of tranches of people who don't like migrants, who are feeling threatened by them, who don't like funds being spent on migrants more than their own services and those same people voted to trust a conman over dems just because of this one topic.

I agree that the Overton window, narrative, whatever you want to call it....on immigration... has definitely shifted right. Agree or disagree, that's where we seem to be. And if there are legit elections in the future, no Dem will win by softening their stance again on immigration. No, it doesn't need to be Gitmo-or-bust, but the neoliberal stance on immigration will not win over the electorate anymore.

 

[Pens1566]

Going to be funny if Musk defunds US shipbuilding and says we can just order from the Koreans instead for half the price.

And that's the absolute WORST place for us to reduce spending. Fleet is in need of serious upgrades almost across the board.

Unless we're no longer into projecting power and supporting our allies/commitments around the world ...

 

[Indus]

Be very careful where you go next with this train of thought.

My guy, I feel like you are becoming radicalized right in front of our very eyes. I get that you are passionate about some issues, but lately it just seems like lashing out. IMO. Hope you are good.

Dude I'm not becoming radical. I'm just becoming older and I care about healthcare more than I did in my early 20's.

I have been thinking for a while now that retiring in Spain is a good way to get away from the US politics, and it also has better healthcare because I don't wanna deal with MAGA doctors who wanna inject me with bleach some day.

 

[FelixDeCat]

So an incel and a cheater? Wonder how you became an incel.

What is an incel? Did you mean "pencil"? Im not sure what pencils have to do with your extramarital activities. I mean sure, men have a roving eye but you have to be stronger than that. Learn to code bro that might help.

 

[ch33zw1z]

I agree that the Overton window, narrative, whatever you want to call it....on immigration... has definitely shifted right. Agree or disagree, that's where we seem to be. And if there are legit elections in the future, no Dem will win by softening their stance again on immigration. No, it doesn't need to be Gitmo-or-bust, but the neoliberal stance on immigration will not win over the electorate anymore.

Which they haven’t been soft on really, this is just right wing propoganda. Obama increase border patrol by tens of thousands, while also building more fences. Think the people consuming right wing media know this?

 

[FelixDeCat]

And that's the absolute WORST place for us to reduce spending. Fleet is in need of serious upgrades almost across the board.

Unless we're no longer into projecting power and supporting our allies/commitments around the world ...

The American people can no longer afford it. We must rely on others to pay for their own self defence.