Opinion on psychiatry

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[IronWing]

What you got?

 

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[SlitheryDee]

Talking to someone who doesn't really give a shit and is sworn to secrecy is bound to help people with emotional issues. I see no reason to venerate the profession or anything, though.

 

[GeekDrew]

I'm very, very strongly against psychiatry/psychology/counseling because I know several [appropriate title] that are corrupt, and even one healthy person that is misdiagnosed with some disorder is far worse than thousands of undiagnosed people.

 

[Cogman]

I'm somewhat in the same realm of the OP. Psychiatry is important for many people and the counseling does generally help. However, I think that prescription of drugs and diagnosis of diseases should be down with the approval of a medical doctor. I think that there are many diagnoses that are BS in nature (IE, everyone is Depressed, has ADD, ext). Drugs should be a last resort, not a quick recommendation.

 

[sjwaste]

Originally posted by: Cogman
I'm somewhat in the same realm of the OP. Psychiatry is important for many people and the counseling does generally help. However, I think that prescription of drugs and diagnosis of diseases should be down with the approval of a medical doctor. I think that there are many diagnoses that are BS in nature (IE, everyone is Depressed, has ADD, ext). Drugs should be a last resort, not a quick recommendation.

A psychiatrist is a medical doctor. They go to med school, then become a psychiatrist through residency.

A psychologist might be what you're talking about? They're the ones that generally do the counseling. They cannot prescribe medication.

 

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[yllus]

I think that a good therapist can go a long, long way towards helping people heal themselves of emotional issues they may have experienced in their lives.

I think the main issue today is that we often fail to view therapy in proper context: It's about a professional with years of education and experience in human psychiatry acting as a sounding board for a person, as well as sharing with them techniques that might help that person process their own emotions and experiences in a healthier way (as opposed to taking to drinking heavily, lashing out in anger, etc). Therapy in my opinion is about assistance, not curing.

 

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[xSauronx]

Originally posted by: sjwaste

Originally posted by: Cogman
I'm somewhat in the same realm of the OP. Psychiatry is important for many people and the counseling does generally help. However, I think that prescription of drugs and diagnosis of diseases should be down with the approval of a medical doctor. I think that there are many diagnoses that are BS in nature (IE, everyone is Depressed, has ADD, ext). Drugs should be a last resort, not a quick recommendation.

A psychiatrist is a medical doctor. They go to med school, then become a psychiatrist through residency.

A psychologist might be what you're talking about? They're the ones that generally do the counseling. They cannot prescribe medication.

this, people may see both a psychologist for some kind of therapy, like cognitive behavioral therapy, that has been shown to give good results in many cases, and they may also see a psychiatrist who can prescribe medications that may alleviate some of the symptoms a patient is dealing with, which can allow the therapy to have better success.

it doesnt work for everyone, and yeah, some doctors (psychologists, or psychiatrists) suck and get in it for the money, without much real concern for patients. others can do a fantastic job and really help the patient see positive results.

 

[RKS]

Originally posted by: GeekDrew
I'm very, very strongly against psychiatry/psychology/counseling because I know several [appropriate title] that are corrupt, and even one healthy person that is misdiagnosed with some disorder is far worse than thousands of undiagnosed people.

Hi Tom Cruise.

 

[Titan]

I think altering an individual's behavior through chemicals is an unusual practice. If someone needs someone to talk to, and they just talk, I see that being more effective.

It's a dark and scary road when higher authorities decide what behavior is correct and what is not. Normally we lock up and punish offenders such as murderers. But if we think you talk too much too fast, here's some pills cuz you're crazy and they may not help, but you'll stop pestering your neighbor. They may make you a zombie, but hey, I'm a doctor!

I don't like psychiatry because they ignore what the individual says what they want in the name of the common good. And there are no clear metrics, tests, or definitions there.

I'm not saying that it can't help some people, and that they don't try really hard. But in principle monkeying with people's free will is wrong. If they agree to it, fine. But my point is a lot of this crap is forced. And even worse often forced on children.

 

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[Mo0o]

Originally posted by: nikhilesh
Agreed,but what about psychiatric disorders(the ones listed in the DSM)?Do you think they have a basis in scientific fact?

Yes. For a lot of diseases there are biochemical alteratiosn in brain chemistry. It's how drug companies know how to create drugs. A lot of it is theory but its supported by evidence of effective treatment and therapy.

 

[Mo0o]

Originally posted by: Titan
I think altering an individual's behavior through chemicals is an unusual practice. If someone needs someone to talk to, and they just talk, I see that being more effective.

It's a dark and scary road when higher authorities decide what behavior is correct and what is not. Normally we lock up and punish offenders such as murderers. But if we think you talk too much too fast, here's some pills cuz you're crazy and they may not help, but you'll stop pestering your neighbor. They may make you a zombie, but hey, I'm a doctor!

I don't like psychiatry because they ignore what the individual says what they want in the name of the common good. And there are no clear metrics, tests, or definitions there.

I'm not saying that it can't help some people, and that they don't try really hard. But in principle monkeying with people's free will is wrong. If they agree to it, fine. But my point is a lot of this crap is forced. And even worse often forced on children.

Wow that's so much bullshit. For the most part DSM criteria are themselves really strict about what's a disease and what's not. There needs to be functional impairment and the patient has to willingly accept treatment. Psychiatrists aren't allowed to just force you to take pills unless you're about to harm someone

 

[Titan]

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: Titan
I think altering an individual's behavior through chemicals is an unusual practice. If someone needs someone to talk to, and they just talk, I see that being more effective.

It's a dark and scary road when higher authorities decide what behavior is correct and what is not. Normally we lock up and punish offenders such as murderers. But if we think you talk too much too fast, here's some pills cuz you're crazy and they may not help, but you'll stop pestering your neighbor. They may make you a zombie, but hey, I'm a doctor!

I don't like psychiatry because they ignore what the individual says what they want in the name of the common good. And there are no clear metrics, tests, or definitions there.

I'm not saying that it can't help some people, and that they don't try really hard. But in principle monkeying with people's free will is wrong. If they agree to it, fine. But my point is a lot of this crap is forced. And even worse often forced on children.

Wow that's so much bullshit. For the most part DSM criteria are themselves really strict about what's a disease and what's not. There needs to be functional impairment and the patient has to willingly accept treatment. Psychiatrists aren't allowed to just force you to take pills unless you're about to harm someone

Yes, and the criteria are evaluated by a human being called a psychiatrist who uses training and experience or ( in some cases outright underhandedness) to write up your evaluation. It's not based on any numbers. No numbers from a blood test, no dipstick check in your brain, no body-weight, no numbers. Science boils down to numbers. There are no numbers in psychiatry so it is in-effect pseudo-science.

Don't make me google social workers handing off hyper active kids to be doped up on crap like Ritalin. Psychiatry has been doing that kind of stuff for decades. It is common practice to use the excuse that "you're crazy" especially for those that are committed to experiment with different drugs on people.

 

[Mo0o]

Originally posted by: Titan

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: Titan
I think altering an individual's behavior through chemicals is an unusual practice. If someone needs someone to talk to, and they just talk, I see that being more effective.

It's a dark and scary road when higher authorities decide what behavior is correct and what is not. Normally we lock up and punish offenders such as murderers. But if we think you talk too much too fast, here's some pills cuz you're crazy and they may not help, but you'll stop pestering your neighbor. They may make you a zombie, but hey, I'm a doctor!

I don't like psychiatry because they ignore what the individual says what they want in the name of the common good. And there are no clear metrics, tests, or definitions there.

I'm not saying that it can't help some people, and that they don't try really hard. But in principle monkeying with people's free will is wrong. If they agree to it, fine. But my point is a lot of this crap is forced. And even worse often forced on children.

Wow that's so much bullshit. For the most part DSM criteria are themselves really strict about what's a disease and what's not. There needs to be functional impairment and the patient has to willingly accept treatment. Psychiatrists aren't allowed to just force you to take pills unless you're about to harm someone

Yes, and the criteria are evaluated by a human being called a psychiatrist who uses training and experience or ( in some cases outright underhandedness) to write up your evaluation. It's not based on any numbers. No numbers from a blood test, no dipstick check in your brain, no body-weight, no numbers. Science boils down to numbers. There are no numbers in psychiatry so it is in-effect pseudo-science.

Don't make me google social workers handing off hyper active kids to be doped up on crap like Ritalin. Psychiatry has been doing that kind of stuff for decades. It is common practice to use the excuse that "you're crazy" especially for those that are committed to experiment with different drugs on people.

Making diagnoses off clinical evidence alone does not make it a "pseudo-science." There are plenty of idiopathic diseases where its essentially a diagnosis of exclusion. As long as you have a clinical constellation that can be effectively treated, to the patient's own benefit, then it's legitimate.

I'm not arguing whether ADD is overdiagnosed or not, but you writing off all of psychiatry is totally asinine. Psychiatrists deal with significant mental health issues like schizophrenia, bipolar disorder etc. There are greedy people in any profession but I can assure you, if people want to make money as an MD, psychiatry is NOT the way to go.

 

[Inspector Jihad]

Originally posted by: nikhilesh
My father is a urologist(a kidney surgeon) and he hates psychiatry to the core.

your father is ignorant.

not only that, he may have failed neuroscience.

 

[MrMatt]

Originally posted by: Cogman
I'm somewhat in the same realm of the OP. Psychiatry is important for many people and the counseling does generally help. However, I think that prescription of drugs and diagnosis of diseases should be down with the approval of a medical doctor. I think that there are many diagnoses that are BS in nature (IE, everyone is Depressed, has ADD, ext). Drugs should be a last resort, not a quick recommendation.

well it's not that everyone has ADD. It's that parents psychologist shop until they find one that'll prescribe ridalin, addy, etc. whatever.


Mountains of research shows that the best solution for most people with psychological issues is counseling and some form of medication.

 

[Titan]

Originally posted by: Mo0o


Making diagnoses off clinical evidence alone does not make it a "pseudo-science." There are plenty of idiopathic diseases where its essentially a diagnosis of exclusion. As long as you have a clinical constellation that can be effectively treated, to the patient's own benefit, then it's legitimate.

I'm not arguing whether ADD is overdiagnosed or not, but you writing off all of psychiatry is totally asinine. Psychiatrists deal with significant mental health issues like schizophrenia, bipolar disorder etc. There are greedy people in any profession but I can assure you, if people want to make money as an MD, psychiatry is NOT the way to go.

I'm not dismissing all of psychiatry. I have a lot of first and second-hand experience with the practice, and I have my opinions of it. I'm saying simply:

1) Forced medication is wrong. Especially for behavior that isn't criminal. And especially when the results of effects and/or side effects can be severe or permanently damaging.

2) Judging what is correct behavior is dangerous to all of us, combined with a field that doesn't use and tests with clear numbers to indicate an analyzable problem from an objective view.

3) Psychiatry is guesswork. Any good psychiatrist will tell you that he will guess wrong 50% of the time with his first prescription, it's trial-and error from there. And what the end goal is - is unclear.

I know a lot of good psychiatrists and believe their service is needed. But philosophically it's a grey area to me, and in practice some people have done some awful things with psychiatry that everyone in the profession should be ashamed. Like associating with Nazis was shameful. But they have no shame, because they claim it is "science" while they ruin lives.

 

[Demo24]

Originally posted by: sjwaste

Originally posted by: Cogman
I'm somewhat in the same realm of the OP. Psychiatry is important for many people and the counseling does generally help. However, I think that prescription of drugs and diagnosis of diseases should be down with the approval of a medical doctor. I think that there are many diagnoses that are BS in nature (IE, everyone is Depressed, has ADD, ext). Drugs should be a last resort, not a quick recommendation.

A psychiatrist is a medical doctor. They go to med school, then become a psychiatrist through residency.

A psychologist might be what you're talking about? They're the ones that generally do the counseling. They cannot prescribe medication.

Actually in some cases a psychologist can prescribe some medicines, although they must undergo some additional training to reach that ability. I personally do not think a psychologist should be prescribing drugs, leave that to a more trained psychiatrist.

 

[Mo0o]

Originally posted by: Titan

Originally posted by: Mo0o


Making diagnoses off clinical evidence alone does not make it a "pseudo-science." There are plenty of idiopathic diseases where its essentially a diagnosis of exclusion. As long as you have a clinical constellation that can be effectively treated, to the patient's own benefit, then it's legitimate.

I'm not arguing whether ADD is overdiagnosed or not, but you writing off all of psychiatry is totally asinine. Psychiatrists deal with significant mental health issues like schizophrenia, bipolar disorder etc. There are greedy people in any profession but I can assure you, if people want to make money as an MD, psychiatry is NOT the way to go.

I'm not dismissing all of psychiatry. I have a lot of first and second-hand experience with the practice, and I have my opinions of it. I'm saying simply:

1) Forced medication is wrong. Especially for behavior that isn't criminal. And especially when the results of effects and/or side effects can be severe or permanently damaging.

2) Judging what is correct behavior is dangerous to all of us, combined with a field that doesn't use and tests with clear numbers to indicate an analyzable problem from an objective view.

3) Psychiatry is guesswork. Any good psychiatrist will tell you that he will guess wrong 50% of the time with his first prescription, it's trial-and error from there. And what the end goal is - is unclear.

I know a lot of good psychiatrists and believe their service is needed. But philosophically it's a grey area to me, and in practice some people have done some awful things with psychiatry that everyone in the profession should be ashamed. Like associating with Nazis was shameful. But they have no shame, because they claim it is "science" while they ruin lives.

How often do people get forced medication? And "correct" behavior is only judged when there is significant impairment of their dialy function. You can be as odd as you want but if you're doing just fine in life then psychiatrists wont do anything. And you can always decline treatment. They cant strap you down and give you antipsychotics just because you say you like scifi

 

[Inspector Jihad]

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: Titan

Originally posted by: Mo0o


Making diagnoses off clinical evidence alone does not make it a "pseudo-science." There are plenty of idiopathic diseases where its essentially a diagnosis of exclusion. As long as you have a clinical constellation that can be effectively treated, to the patient's own benefit, then it's legitimate.

I'm not arguing whether ADD is overdiagnosed or not, but you writing off all of psychiatry is totally asinine. Psychiatrists deal with significant mental health issues like schizophrenia, bipolar disorder etc. There are greedy people in any profession but I can assure you, if people want to make money as an MD, psychiatry is NOT the way to go.

I'm not dismissing all of psychiatry. I have a lot of first and second-hand experience with the practice, and I have my opinions of it. I'm saying simply:

1) Forced medication is wrong. Especially for behavior that isn't criminal. And especially when the results of effects and/or side effects can be severe or permanently damaging.

2) Judging what is correct behavior is dangerous to all of us, combined with a field that doesn't use and tests with clear numbers to indicate an analyzable problem from an objective view.

3) Psychiatry is guesswork. Any good psychiatrist will tell you that he will guess wrong 50% of the time with his first prescription, it's trial-and error from there. And what the end goal is - is unclear.

I know a lot of good psychiatrists and believe their service is needed. But philosophically it's a grey area to me, and in practice some people have done some awful things with psychiatry that everyone in the profession should be ashamed. Like associating with Nazis was shameful. But they have no shame, because they claim it is "science" while they ruin lives.

How often do people get forced medication? And "correct" behavior is only judged when there is significant impairment of their dialy function. You can be as odd as you want but if you're doing just fine in life then psychiatrists wont do anything. And you can always decline treatment. They cant strap you down and give you antipsychotics just because you say you like scifi

Well said. I think a lot of people watch movies where guys come in with straight-jackets and get medicated and think that is how psychiatry works.

 

[GeekDrew]

Originally posted by: RKS

Originally posted by: GeekDrew
I'm very, very strongly against psychiatry/psychology/counseling because I know several [appropriate title] that are corrupt, and even one healthy person that is misdiagnosed with some disorder is far worse than thousands of undiagnosed people.

Hi Tom Cruise.

Nah, I base my opinions on experience.

Originally posted by: Mo0o
How often do people get forced medication? And "correct" behavior is only judged when there is significant impairment of their dialy function. You can be as odd as you want but if you're doing just fine in life then psychiatrists wont do anything. And you can always decline treatment. They cant strap you down and give you antipsychotics just because you say you like scifi

It doesn't matter how often it happens... if it happens once, ever, that's far too much. And by "if you're doing just fine in life then psychiatrists wont do anything", you're assuming that the psychiatrist has some integrity (not always the case). No, when you're under 18, you can't decline treatment (see also: my parents trying to cure my homosexuality), and I've seen instances where those over 18 have been forced to comply with treatment, without prior harm to another individual.