Opinion on psychiatry

[Mr Smiley]

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: Titan

Originally posted by: Mo0o


Making diagnoses off clinical evidence alone does not make it a "pseudo-science." There are plenty of idiopathic diseases where its essentially a diagnosis of exclusion. As long as you have a clinical constellation that can be effectively treated, to the patient's own benefit, then it's legitimate.

I'm not arguing whether ADD is overdiagnosed or not, but you writing off all of psychiatry is totally asinine. Psychiatrists deal with significant mental health issues like schizophrenia, bipolar disorder etc. There are greedy people in any profession but I can assure you, if people want to make money as an MD, psychiatry is NOT the way to go.

I'm not dismissing all of psychiatry. I have a lot of first and second-hand experience with the practice, and I have my opinions of it. I'm saying simply:

1) Forced medication is wrong. Especially for behavior that isn't criminal. And especially when the results of effects and/or side effects can be severe or permanently damaging.

2) Judging what is correct behavior is dangerous to all of us, combined with a field that doesn't use and tests with clear numbers to indicate an analyzable problem from an objective view.

3) Psychiatry is guesswork. Any good psychiatrist will tell you that he will guess wrong 50% of the time with his first prescription, it's trial-and error from there. And what the end goal is - is unclear.

I know a lot of good psychiatrists and believe their service is needed. But philosophically it's a grey area to me, and in practice some people have done some awful things with psychiatry that everyone in the profession should be ashamed. Like associating with Nazis was shameful. But they have no shame, because they claim it is "science" while they ruin lives.

How often do people get forced medication? And "correct" behavior is only judged when there is significant impairment of their dialy function. You can be as odd as you want but if you're doing just fine in life then psychiatrists wont do anything. And you can always decline treatment. They cant strap you down and give you antipsychotics just because you say you like scifi

This very well may be true but what about wrong diagnostics? For example in the Rosenhan experiments. Does labeling someone mentally ill make them mentally ill?

 

[krunchykrome]

Originally posted by: nikhilesh
Ha ha,that was good.

I was just asking 'cause I saw some documentaries and this is something that intrigues me.

a simple mind is so easy to sway

 

[Steve]

Originally posted by: GeekDrew

Originally posted by: RKS

Originally posted by: GeekDrew
I'm very, very strongly against psychiatry/psychology/counseling because I know several [appropriate title] that are corrupt, and even one healthy person that is misdiagnosed with some disorder is far worse than thousands of undiagnosed people.

Hi Tom Cruise.

Nah, I base my opinions on experience.

Anecdotal evidence FTL.

Also, you're so glib. You don't know the history of psychiatry, I do!

 

[GeekDrew]

Originally posted by: Steve
Anecdotal evidence FTL.

Also, you're so glib. You don't know the history of psychiatry, I do!

So? 😛 It's my opinion, nobody said that it had to be scientifically sound. Also, why would I care in the least bit about the history of psychiatry?

 

[Whisper]

Psychiatric/Psychological diagnoses, while definitely imperfect, are supported by a multitude of facts and research. While the current typology and methodology of diagnosis are continually debated within the field (are depression and anxiety distinct disorders, or two extremes on the same continuum?, etc.), there is a generally high degree of inter-professional reliability and agreement with respect to general categories. Personality disorders constitute probably the one area that comes under the most fire, but even there, the reliability in diagnosis with respect to general categories is relatively high.

The difficulty in obtaining a definite set of diagnostic criteria for mental disorders is that their etiology and presentation are, in many respects, inherently subjective. Two people may see the same situation in similar ways, and with one person this might be debilitating, while with the other it is not.

As for the Rosenhan experiments, they (rightfully so) led to a shake-up in the field, and, at least in part, to the subsequent revision of the DSM.

Edit: Also, keep in mind that while both psychologists and psychiatrists address essentially the same issues, they often times do so in fundamentally different ways.

 

[Steve]

Originally posted by: GeekDrew

Originally posted by: Steve
Anecdotal evidence FTL.

Also, you're so glib. You don't know the history of psychiatry, I do!

So? 😛 It's my opinion, nobody said that it had to be scientifically sound. Also, why would I care in the least bit about the history of psychiatry?

First of all, you're right, you do have the right to remain ignorant 🙂

Second of all, I was referencing Tom Cruise's quote to Matt Lauer.

 

[thomsbrain]

I can tell you from professional experience that proper psychiatric treatment of bi-polar and schizophrenic disorders is the difference between functioning members of society and straight-jacket poster-boys. Meds are not optional for those people. They have biochemical problems that no amount of therapy, relaxation, or sucking it up will ever improve. There are psychiatric drugs that make tremendous, quantifiable improvements in their ability to function safely in the world.

That said, there are examples of meds being used in situations where other forms of treatment would be more effective, simply because meds are easy and quick, and that really gives the field a bad name.

 

[BeauJangles]

Originally posted by: GeekDrew

Originally posted by: RKS

Originally posted by: GeekDrew
I'm very, very strongly against psychiatry/psychology/counseling because I know several [appropriate title] that are corrupt, and even one healthy person that is misdiagnosed with some disorder is far worse than thousands of undiagnosed people.

Hi Tom Cruise.

Nah, I base my opinions on experience.

Originally posted by: Mo0o
How often do people get forced medication? And "correct" behavior is only judged when there is significant impairment of their dialy function. You can be as odd as you want but if you're doing just fine in life then psychiatrists wont do anything. And you can always decline treatment. They cant strap you down and give you antipsychotics just because you say you like scifi

It doesn't matter how often it happens... if it happens once, ever, that's far too much. And by "if you're doing just fine in life then psychiatrists wont do anything", you're assuming that the psychiatrist has some integrity (not always the case). No, when you're under 18, you can't decline treatment (see also: my parents trying to cure my homosexuality), and I've seen instances where those over 18 have been forced to comply with treatment, without prior harm to another individual.

So, because a surgeon makes a mistake we shouldn't allow surgeons to continue to operate in the US?

Your example of compulsory treatment is usually an extreme. Often those people are so screwed up that they don't know that treatment will actually help them. Yes, it's extreme and it's awful (I've seen it happen twice), but, when used properly, the results are often very, very good.

Sure, there are crappy mental health professionals out there. There are crappy lawyers, doctors, nurses, administrators, car dealers ... for every freaking profession there are people that absolutely suck at their job.

Psychiatry and pharmacology are both incredibly important fields. The drugs, techniques, and treatments derived from them have helped millions and millions of people. I don't see how you can deny that. I certainly believe that some drugs are over-prescribed, but I don't see that knock against some prescribers as indicative of the fact that the whole system should go out the window.

 

[GeekDrew]

Originally posted by: BeauJangles
So, because a surgeon makes a mistake we shouldn't allow surgeons to continue to operate in the US?

Your example of compulsory treatment is usually an extreme. Often those people are so screwed up that they don't know that treatment will actually help them. Yes, it's extreme and it's awful (I've seen it happen twice), but, when used properly, the results are often very, very good.

Sure, there are crappy mental health professionals out there. There are crappy lawyers, doctors, nurses, administrators, car dealers ... for every freaking profession there are people that absolutely suck at their job.

Psychiatry and pharmacology are both incredibly important fields. The drugs, techniques, and treatments derived from them have helped millions and millions of people. I don't see how you can deny that. I certainly believe that some drugs are over-prescribed, but I don't see that knock against some prescribers as indicative of the fact that the whole system should go out the window.

Bah, stop taking my opinion as gospel. My opinion applies only to me, and those few people that agree with me (if any, and there probably is not). I know very well (objectively) that psychiatry helps a tremendous number of people.

I also know that it did nothing to help my situation. I won't argue that it hurt me (long-term), but what I saw scared me enough that I'd rather take the irrational hatred approach toward the entire science than even begin to think objectively about it. If I were involved in (m)any situation(s) where psychiatry/psychology was beneficial to the patient, I'd definitely change my opinion -- but I haven't been.

 

[CKent]

It's a promising field. It's quite obvious that the mind suffers from maladies just as the body does. It's unfortunate that most people are so incredibly stupid as to think this isn't the case. But I digress.

Unfortunately almost every single "professional" in the field is a lazy fuck who chose the job solely to get paid (lots) for sitting around doing absolutely nothing. Shrinks are as worthless as lawyers, if not quite as evil.

 

[Mo0o]

Originally posted by: CKent
It's a promising field. It's quite obvious that the mind suffers from maladies just as the body does. It's unfortunate that most people are so incredibly stupid as to think this isn't the case. But I digress.

Unfortunately almost every single "professional" in the field is a lazy fuck who chose the job solely to get paid (lots) for sitting around doing absolutely nothing. Shrinks are as worthless as lawyers, if not quite as evil.

Going through med school and residency for psychiatry is not the best way to get paid, even as an MD. I think most people do it because they actually enoy the field. You need a TON of patience to deal with the crazies

 

[Newfie]

Originally posted by: CKent
It's a promising field. It's quite obvious that the mind suffers from maladies just as the body does. It's unfortunate that most people are so incredibly stupid as to think this isn't the case. But I digress.

Unfortunately almost every single "professional" in the field is a lazy fuck who chose the job solely to get paid (lots) for sitting around doing absolutely nothing. Shrinks are as worthless as lawyers, if not quite as evil.

You wanna back that up?

 

[Inspector Jihad]

I can't believe there is so much ignorance regarding psychiatry and mental health in 2009. I guess we should expect much when science is taking such a backseat in this country.