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Opinion on Boy Carrying Ceremonial Knife to School

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IMO, they should let him carry one that lacks a sharp blade. I'm sure one can be made. Does thier religion require that the blade be sharp?

Although, last I checked the compasses used in math classes are often quite sharp.

Welcome to the wonderful shade of gray.
 
Zero Tolerance laws had to be enacted because of the complete breakdown of the legal system in this country. People sue for anything they even THINK they may have a chance of winning for. Case by case incidents lead to controversy of decision, controversy leads to lawsuits. It's sad but true.

Zero Tolerance regulations make it so that there is no case by case controversy. The rules are laid out - you brake them - you face the consequences. No if's, and's or but's about it. Don't blame the schools, blame the sue happy parents that can't face the fact that little johnny is a fsck up.

Is it perfect? No, not hardly. Is it better than playing favorites, facing ridiculous lawsuits, and allowing many people who break the law go free? Yes.

When the time comes and your child is hurt whether it be by physical, verbal, or emotional means, you are going to be screaming for the blood of the offender. If that person/kid gets off because of loose laws or "case by case analysis", you are going to be demanding more. Zero tolerance would have prevented that.

Relativism is a great thing ain't it?
 
I disagree with zero tolerance policies. Things need to be evaluated on a case by case basis. It's just common sense. Tylenol is not dangerous, but a sharp 4-7 inch blade can be. Fights happen. They happen fast. There are, have been, and probably always will be fights in school. Blades should not be allowed in school. They can turn a would be black eye into a deadly wound.
 
Tylenol is not dangerous
Click to expand...

Tylenol is one of the most dangerous OTC drugs you can take. It can easily destroy livers with very small doses over the recommended amounts. Combine it with a little alcohol and it'll kill you rather effectively.

Many of my employers have had policies where they could not hand out "harmless" drugs like asprin and tylenol.
 
The applicable federal regulation states:

" . . . no aircraft operator may permit any person to have a deadly or
dangerous weapon, on or about the individual?s person or accessible property
when onboard an aircraft." 14 C.F.R. § 108.201(e)

A kirpan, regardless of the size or sharpness of the blade, will be viewed by
airport security authorities as a dangerous weapon. Therefore, any person
wishing to transport a kirpan in the course of their air travel should place it in
their check-in luggage.

Small kirpan lockets are less likely to be classified as a weapon, but the airport
authorities are granted the discretion to make this determination at the time
of inspection. This being the case, Amritdhari Sikhs should be prepared to
check in kirpan lockets as well, if requested to do so.
Click to expand...

Kirpan
Also known as a Kirphan or Dagger. All Sikhs should carry this
and the Gatka techniques make this a lethal weapon.
Click to expand...

Wear a dull one, or the jewelry containing one..
 
Originally posted by: vi_edit
Zero Tolerance laws had to be enacted because of the complete breakdown of the legal system in this country. People sue for anything they even THINK they may have a chance of winning for. Case by case incidents lead to controversy of decision, controversy leads to lawsuits. It's sad but true.

Zero Tolerance regulations make it so that there is no case by case controversy. The rules are laid out - you brake them - you face the consequences. No if's, and's or but's about it. Don't blame the schools, blame the sue happy parents that can't face the fact that little johnny is a fsck up.

Is it perfect? No, not hardly. Is it better than playing favorites, facing ridiculous lawsuits, and allowing many people who break the law go free? Yes.

When the time comes and your child is hurt whether it be by physical, verbal, or emotional means, you are going to be screaming for the blood of the offender. If that person/kid gets off because of loose laws or "case by case analysis", you are going to be demanding more. Zero tolerance would have prevented that.

Relativism is a great thing ain't it?
Click to expand...
vi_edit - I agree with you about the cause of instituting zero tolerance, but I disagree about the solution. zero tolerance does not solve the problem, it only serves to punish the people that are caught in what would have been the "shades of gray"

 
this country has gone nuts I say let the kid cary it as long as its peace bonded in the sheath
god if my school went nuts like that there wuoldnt be any students we all caried stuff in our cars or trucks
 
I had several large paragraphs here but decided to thin it all down to this one 1 example:

Put yourself in a childs shoes. You have a kid in your class who doesn't necessarily like you (don't tell me this never happened). That kid's religion allows him to carry a knife at all times. You now know the person who doesn't like you is armed at all times. Do you feel safe? Do you feel the need to arm yourself in defense?

Thats all I gotta say.
 
obviously he couldn't keep it in the sheath or this wouldn't be an issue. if i went to india (or wherever they hold cows sacred) and started slaughtering cows and eating them on a bar-b-que in the town square they'd probably just shoot me. not send me home from school, but shoot me. i don't think it's too much to ask to leave your weapons at home if you want to live in a civilized society. the key word being civilized. 10 years ago (i'm old, dammit) when i was in high school i might say "yeah as long as it's a ceremonial thing whatever" but these days people are way too out of control. ALL people are out of control. shooting each other, blowing each other up. if what it takes is zero tolerence to try and at least keep the weapons out (all they can do is try) then hey, deal or go somewhere else.

~erik

<edited due to content>
 
Well, let me ask this. How many Sikhs USE knives as weapons. How do they comport themselves compared to the general population? If there is a problem, then remove them. If the Joe Citizen is more likely to be violent, then institute a zero tolerence policy against all things that can be used as weapons. No pencils or pens. Just some soft markers or crayons. Lunch boxes are hard. They gotta go. If this new policy saves just one life then it will be worth it.
 
it's already been said in this thread, what if someone else grabs it (like when it fell on the ground in the story). it's a KNIFE. which isn't allowed at school. period. and the arguement that a pencil is more dangerous than a 4" blade is reaching at best. i've never been slashed by a person wielding a pencil (well not yet anyway), however some guy a concert once gave me a nice scar using a swiss army knife. the blade might have been 1.5" long? if that.

i realize anything can be used as a weapon, but let's leave the obvious ones at home, at least make the kids be creative, maybe they'll learn something.
 
The small Kirpan is not meant to be a weapon. A 3 inch blade is hardly useful in a fight. I have seen a lot of small Kirpans, and all of them have had dull blades.

Anything can be used as a weapon. It's rediculous to think that you can ban all items that are considered such.
 
Originally posted by: skace
I had several large paragraphs here but decided to thin it all down to this one 1 example:

Put yourself in a childs shoes. You have a kid in your class who doesn't necessarily like you (don't tell me this never happened). That kid's religion allows him to carry a knife at all times. You now know the person who doesn't like you is armed at all times. Do you feel safe? Do you feel the need to arm yourself in defense?

Thats all I gotta say.
Click to expand...

[whine] But, But if you dislike the Indian kid that means you are a racist.[/whine]

Nowadays the only people(individual not a race) you can hate is your own. :disgust:
 
Originally posted by: fisher
it's already been said in this thread, what if someone else grabs it (like when it fell on the ground in the story). it's a KNIFE. which isn't allowed at school. period. and the arguement that a pencil is more dangerous than a 4" blade is reaching at best. i've never been slashed by a person wielding a pencil (well not yet anyway), however some guy a concert once gave me a nice scar using a swiss army knife. the blade might have been 1.5" long? if that. i realize anything can be used as a weapon, but let's leave the obvious ones at home, at least make the kids be creative, maybe they'll learn something.
Click to expand...

Do you have any idea what kind of damage I can do with a schoolyard bat relative to that dagger? If I had the bat and you the dagger, and we fought, you would either be hospitalized or pushing up the daisies. Now if the argument is "Well the bat has approved uses" Not if I am in the mindset to kill you with it. I maintain that if I want to turn something against you, <U>that</U> is the issue and not if it is a knife or bat or 2x4
 
don't make me go steven segal on you. take your bat away then kick the hell out of you!

here are the rules:

do NOT bring knives to school.

when it's illegal to bring a baseball bat to school your arguement will have meaning. at the current place and time it's not. i could pick up a chair in the cafeteria and knock you out with it, then pummel you with it. big deal. it's not illegal to bring chairs to school. however, it's STILL illegal to bring knives to school.

i'll play your game, what if it was a ceremonial gun? could i bring my ceremonial glock 9 to school? what if it was ~usually~ unloaded?

you can play what if what if all day long, but you still aren't allowed to carry a gun or knife to school. if you can't live by those rules, homeschool or something.

i'd like to think we live in a society where we're civilized enough that we don't need to carry a sacred knife to show manhood or whatever, but then i guess if we did stuff like columbine wouldn't have happened.

I maintain that if I want to turn something against you, that is the issue and not if it is a knife or bat or 2x4
Click to expand...

that's not the issue. the issue is, kids aren't allowed to carry certain items to school, be it a knife or gun or whatever else. ceremonial or otherwise.
 
Originally posted by: fisher
when it's illegal to bring a baseball bat to school your arguement will have meaning. at the current place and time it's not. i could pick up a chair in the cafeteria and knock you out with it, then pummel you with it. big deal. it's not illegal to bring chairs to school. however, it's STILL illegal to bring knives to school.
Click to expand...

Ahh.. the issue of legality. The Canadian court has decided that Sikhs can carry the Kirpan as long as its blade is dull and it is sheathed at all times. The decision is being repealed but I imagine the issue will be settled.
 
Singh. I'm sorry, I had thought they were merely a group of hindus with a particular guru.

But the rest of it is correct, no?
 
Singh, another question:

If the Sikhs reject caste, why does every sikh I know proudly proclaim themselves to be a Jatt?
😉
 
Originally posted by: BlipBlop
Singh, another question:

If the Sikhs reject caste, why does every sikh I know proudly proclaim themselves to be a Jatt?
😉
Click to expand...

He he.. again I don't want to get off topic, but if you go against the teachings of the Sikh religion, then you can't really be a Sikh, can you? 🙂

 
Zero tolerance is a joke. It's that simple.

I attend vocational high school where things work on a very simple concept. If it's legal and you can be responsible with you can have it. It is not uncommon to see someone walking around with a cordless drill, acetylene torch, or anything else you would have access to in the real world. Items like this would get you expelled in one of those zero tolerance schools without question. If the kid can be responsibe with it let him have it. Many kids at my school carry pocket knives, leathermans, and other things of that nature, why you ask, because its convenient and they are resposible with them. I fail to see how this knife is a threat to anyone. It's a religious symbol not a weapon. I can see how it could be used as a weapon but so couldn't cross.

example.

PARENT A. I'm not letting my little Johny go to school there, he could get stabbed by that kid with a knive.

PARENT B. I'm not letting my little Susan go there she could be strangled by that kid wearing a cross.

I think this is more of an issue of parents not accepting another persons beliefs more than an issue of security.

 
it is sheathed at all times
Click to expand...

had it stayed sheathed this probably would have never come up. 🙂

apparently it's difficult to play basketball with your knife strapped to you.


I think this is more of an issue of parents not accepting another persons beliefs more than an issue of security.
Click to expand...

when the religion requires you to carry a BANNED weapon to school, it kinda becomes a security issue.

zero tolerence may suck and be a joke, but it's better than letting kids roam the halls with the weapon of their choice. until people learn how to behave themselves properly in public then it's most likely going to stay.

~erik
 
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