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Opinion: Jordan Peterson has always been a crank

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mikeymikec said:
The problem is that it's two arguments at cross-purposes: Faith versus evidence-based practice.

Rewinding to what Heartbreaker mentioned that JP says that atheists aren't happy, despite the fact that it's yet another assertion that JP likely pulled out of his ass, let's argue the point as if it's true. I would argue that theists are at least as unhappy hence they decided that God is real along with the belief that he's a kind, all-wise, all-knowing God who has their back. It comes down to that notion that some people would prefer to embrace a comfortable lie rather than the uncomfortable truth: In this case, there is no God. Therefore, theists are not altogether happy because they know at heart that their comfort is a lie, and atheists are unhappy because the world is as fucked up as it is and there's no morality-based afterlife that dishes out what people supposedly deserve.

Douglas Adams also stated that many solutions were proposed to the unhappiness problem, but those solutions tended to revolve around small green pieces of paper (which was odd because the small green pieces of paper weren't unhappy)... 🙂
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Theists aqnd Atheists have one thing in common. The god they believe in or the gods they lack proof exist don't exist. People are arguing about whether the moon is made of green cheese and have given themselves names for their sides. Meanwhile here and there someone experiences the smell of a rose.
 
Moonbeam said:
Is that really it. I don't think so but if I were to oppose your thesis here would I not wind up being accused of supporting the beliefs of a Nazi? I mean what is really important in life is to fend off any threat to whatever sacred cows feed and nurture one's ego, right. I mean as a liberal I just go psychotic when some fucking Nazi opens his mouth. What if he or she made a point that was counter to what I believe? I would just die. What if the whole world started listening to that shit? I would be all alone with my scared opinion. Oh me oh my. Somebody shoot the fucker.

That's why I would never be so stupid to suggest that for whatever reasons Peterson says what you quoted, and I am not really interested enough to find out what he was saying, I know I disagree with your view that That's it.

I see God as a word used for the vivification of a psychological state of transcendence about which most people know almost nothing, a state that compared to normal consciousness is analogous to the difference between heaven and hell and furthermore about which words are almost useless in describing and totally useless in bringing about the experience itself. I see religions as the dead husks of complex psychological systems operated with a public and a private face, that owing to the absence of an enlightened teacher have fallen into disrepair.

The result is that there are no gods as you imagine them to be and religions are a joke. However I edo believe there are enlightened beings and the truth is there for those who need it.

Imagine you are a drug addict addicted to getting your ego fix. Every thought, every intention the addict experiences if you look sincerely will lead him or her right to a fix and in your case disbelief. Who could possible believe in the God you don't believe exists. It was you that made it easy to doubt. In our example here, God is a cure for addiction and requires the addict to die to rationalizations.

An addict is a person who hates him or herself to the extent they do feel they deserve to heal while writhing around in victim mentality.

The last thing miserable people what to know is that none of it is necessary. God is another word for saying yes to love as all there is. Self hate is just spitting on that.
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Why would you be accused of being a nazi for disagreeing that the argument has two parts. Lol, i mean, i stopped reading after that man…just a weird take
 
ch33zw1z said:
Why would you be accused of being a nazi for disagreeing that the argument has two parts. Lol, i mean, i stopped reading after that man…just a weird take
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The part you didn't read was about how you would find a reason to avoid hearing what I had to say. All I had to dO was suggest one rationalization, being seen as a Nazi, and you would immediately jump to something else. Please don't read what I had to say. You won't see it as a universal truth as to how all of us act but as a personal attack from me telling you about how stupid you are and how much more superior I am. Victim mentality is the talent for grabbing imaginary arrows out of the air and sticking them into your heart.

Pointing out that liberals go fruitcake over the notion that Peterson triggers them has gotten me called a Nazi many times. It's so weird I might mention that.
 
Moonbeam said:
Pointing out that liberals go fruitcake over the notion that Peterson triggers them has gotten me called a Nazi many times. It's so weird I might mention that.
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Birds of a feather. When his shtick is to onboard people to MAGA, yeah, you might say we got a problem with that.
JP's position on Russia's Genocidal invasion of Europe is ringing loud and clear.
 
Moonbeam said:
The part you didn't read was about how you would find a reason to avoid hearing what I had to say. All I had to dO was suggest one rationalization, being seen as a Nazi, and you would immediately jump to something else. Please don't read what I had to say. You won't see it as a universal truth as to how all of us act but as a personal attack from me telling you about how stupid you are and how much more superior I am. Victim mentality is the talent for grabbing imaginary arrows out of the air and sticking them into your heart.

Pointing out that liberals go fruitcake over the notion that Peterson triggers them has gotten me called a Nazi many times. It's so weird I might mention that.
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Lol, ok moonie. Playing the victim while telling others theyre playing the victim is quite…something
 
ch33zw1z said:
Lol, ok moonie. Playing the victim while telling others theyre playing the victim is quite…something
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While that may seem real to you and I was fully aware you would see it as that, in order to play victim I would need to imagine myself as one. In order for me to accuse you of victimizing me I would have to feel actions were optional and a matter of free will.

I see our actions as robotic responses unconsciously triggered. I hold up that mirror as factually accurate as to how we are. As I said we hate ourselves, experience facts as attacks, and respond by blaming others.
 
ch33zw1z said:
MB’s affinity for JP is not to be discounted, for sure
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My point of view is at once deeply confusing on one hand and profoundly simple on the other. My aim is to provide the psychological insights I believe would if known and understood would lead to freedom from a huge amount of what I regard as needless suffering, suffering about which people have deceived themselves from even knowing they feel. The way this is typically done is via projection, seeing one's own self hate as if it were the opinion of us from others which means we will put up walls to defend ourselves against them including rationalizing as proper to justice to wish them dead. We are hideous in our behaviors because we hate hideousness. This is a paradox that is hard to come to grips with. The truth is also very simple. There is nothing wrong with anybody over which they should hate themselves.

This contempt for the other, be it Biden or Trump, Jordan Peterson, Jesus Christ, etc. is a manifestation of the certainty that people are evil when in fact we are what we are because we had to be to survive the threat of being abandoned as children. Everywhere you see the other demonized, this is what is going on and every example when held up for scrutiny provides an opportunity for self realization. I am aware nobody wants to go there but if you examine this issue carefully you will see that the alternative is human extinction. So forgive me if I am hard to shut up. Other words for God are the infinite potential of people who love life.
 
HomerJS said:
JP has a major streak of dishonesty. He commented several times that Trump is NOT a psychopath.


These comments emphasize his strong suit. He comes up with a word salad designed to convince people in something even he doesn't believe.

Here are the traits of a psychopath. You can conclude. IMO Trump meets all 20. Where do you disagree?

1. Superficial Charm & Charisma​

2. Unnecessary Cruelty or a Mean Streak​

3. Lies, Exaggerations, & Dishonesty​

4. Lack of Accountability & Playing the Blame Game​

5. Need for Power, Control, & Dominance​

6. Sadistic Enjoyment of Pain & Suffering​

7. Boredom & Thrill-Seeking Behaviors​

8. Disregard for Rules, Laws, & Norms​

9. Unaffected & Unafraid of Consequences​

10. Detached, Cold, & Callous Demeanor ​

11. A History of Childhood Behavior Problems

12. A Trail of Short, Broken Relationships​

13. Exploitation of Others for Personal Gain​

14. Calculated & Strategic Planning​

15. A Lack of Conscience​

16. Abnormal Ways of Thinking​

17. Poor Attention Span & Loss of Interest​

18. Violent Tendencies, Abuse, or Aggression​

19. Hostile & Oppositional by Nature​

20. Masters of Deception​

There is a score for this checklist
The checklist contains 20 items, each scored on a 3-point scale:
  • 0 = Does not apply
  • 1 = Applies somewhat
  • 2 = Definitely applies

Scores range from 0 to 40, with a typical cutoff for psychopathy being:

  • 30 or above in the U.S.
  • 25–30 in some other countries or research settings

I score Trump a 52 and I skipped #11
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Seems like a stand up guy
 
Moonbeam said:
My point of view is at once deeply confusing on one hand and profoundly simple on the other. My aim is to provide the psychological insights I believe would if known and understood would lead to freedom from a huge amount of what I regard as needless suffering, suffering about which people have deceived themselves from even knowing they feel. The way this is typically done is via projection, seeing one's own self hate as if it were the opinion of us from others which means we will put up walls to defend ourselves against them including rationalizing as proper to justice to wish them dead. We are hideous in our behaviors because we hate hideousness. This is a paradox that is hard to come to grips with. The truth is also very simple. There is nothing wrong with anybody over which they should hate themselves.

This contempt for the other, be it Biden or Trump, Jordan Peterson, Jesus Christ, etc. is a manifestation of the certainty that people are evil when in fact we are what we are because we had to be to survive the threat of being abandoned as children. Everywhere you see the other demonized, this is what is going on and every example when held up for scrutiny provides an opportunity for self realization. I am aware nobody wants to go there but if you examine this issue carefully you will see that the alternative is human extinction. So forgive me if I am hard to shut up. Other words for God are the infinite potential of people who love life.
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You should probably start by forgiving yourself.
 
ch33zw1z said:
You should probably start by forgiving yourself.
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The start is seeing the need, but, like I say, anything but taking what I have said seriously. To feel a need to start never happens because to realize a need to start always brings up feelings of worthlessness that you didn't begin long ago so now it's too late. I told you the addict will take you endlessly around in circles.
 
Moonbeam said:
To feel a need to start never happens because to realize a need to start always brings up feelings of worthlessness that you didn't begin long ago so now it's too late.
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Yeah. I have to agree that most evil or unhinged people ignore their inner voice to fix their bad behaviors because they are like, I have been this way for so long. Why change now? How will this make me better? What about having to explain my change to everyone around me when they start asking questions after noticing the sudden change in me? Nahhhh. Better to stay this way. It's easier and besides, I'm not losing anything. My life is awesome! And so the pathetic dive going deeper and deeper into being and staying an a-hole continues till death.
 
Moonbeam said:
The start is seeing the need, but, like I say, anything but taking what I have said seriously. To feel a need to start never happens because to realize a need to start always brings up feelings of worthlessness that you didn't begin long ago so now it's too late. I told you the addict will take you endlessly around in circles.
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Lol, ok. Youre not worthless, treat yourself. The only cost for forgiveness is pride.
 
dlerious said:
Video is no longer available. This sums up my thoughts on JP.

View attachment 124505
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That is one way to look at it. Another is that the questioner is setting a gotcha trap. If what you have in mind as to what a human being is and I have a different concept, all you would do is to imagine you caught me in a contradiction. If I can see your motivations, ones you hide from yourself but that I have seen in myself, my idea of what a human is in terms of say, self awareness will be very different. Your notion of self and what people are like could be far more flattering than what I see. Etc.
 
ch33zw1z said:
Lol, ok. Youre not worthless, treat yourself. The only cost for forgiveness is pride.
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Would you buy the idea that the meek are those without pride, that nothing about them suggests to them they have reason to feel pride, that they lack a sense of self importance. Would such people, furthermore, when asking for forgiveness be genuine in that asking for they would have no pride to exchange in a transactional deal with God? They would simply not simply be offering up their recognition that they are empty inside and are asking God to fill them with His love of all beings equally as they cannot do that for themselves lacking any sense of authority?

There is no charge for forgiveness. It is given freely to those have no pride to give. Everything depends on how you look at it. Prideful people fear making the deal. The meek have nothing to lose. Conscious awareness of self makes the difference between those two states.
 
dlerious said:
Video is no longer available. This sums up my thoughts on JP.
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I just watched the reddit clip after you posted this. It's still available. That kid owned JP.

JP is such a jerk. It was supposed to be a Christian vs Atheist debate. The JP won't even acknowledge that he's debating for the side he signed up for. According to post on Reddit, Jubilee then changed to the title to JP vs Atheists cover for him...
 
Heartbreaker said:
I just watched the reddit clip after you posted this. It's still available. That kid owned JP.

JP is such a jerk. It was supposed to be a Christian vs Atheist debate. The JP won't even acknowledge that he's debating for the side he signed up for. According to post on Reddit, Jubilee then changed to the title to JP vs Atheists cover for him...
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I didn't watch the video so I have no idea if I would agree with your statement or not but I have bad news for you on one front. If I were to watch the video and observed that Peterson did not deserve the title of jerk as you claim, you surely realize, I hope that it would be me that is right and you who is wrong owing simply to the superior nature of my views. Your opinions are all well and good but I really don't have them. I simply see what is true which means that true is true is true. 🙂
 
Moonbeam said:
Would you buy the idea that the meek are those without pride, that nothing about them suggests to them they have reason to feel pride, that they lack a sense of self importance. Would such people, furthermore, when asking for forgiveness be genuine in that asking for they would have no pride to exchange in a transactional deal with God? They would simply not simply be offering up their recognition that they are empty inside and are asking God to fill them with His love of all beings equally as they cannot do that for themselves lacking any sense of authority?

There is no charge for forgiveness. It is given freely to those have no pride to give. Everything depends on how you look at it. Prideful people fear making the deal. The meek have nothing to lose. Conscious awareness of self makes the difference between those two states.
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You’re selling me something now? Weird.
 
Moonbeam said:
That is one way to look at it. Another is that the questioner is setting a gotcha trap. If what you have in mind as to what a human being is and I have a different concept, all you would do is to imagine you caught me in a contradiction. If I can see your motivations, ones you hide from yourself but that I have seen in myself, my idea of what a human is in terms of say, self awareness will be very different. Your notion of self and what people are like could be far more flattering than what I see. Etc.
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The gotcha trap 🤣🤣🤣
 
dlerious said:
Video is no longer available. This sums up my thoughts on JP.

View attachment 124505
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Yes, this is the core of JPs argumentation. He did this with Matt Dillahunty when Matt was talking about well-being and the presupposition that life is preferable to death for the living from the standpoint of well-being. It was just silly. There's also a good illustration of his style at the beginning of that Some More News video mentioned above where he strawman's the shit out of the climate change argument. It's possible that he has valuable things to say in some area that he legitimately knows something about, but given his ready willingness to just abandon all pretense of ingenuousness and good faith I doubt it.
 
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