Opinion: Jordan Peterson has always been a crank

[ch33zw1z]

It's not just his views though. They aren't original. He has a huge following because people found that someone famous holds the same views as they do. Everyone is supposed to have free will so you will get differing views. What you call progressive views may sound like a death knell to someone else so they will object fiercely to those views. JP isn't the problem. He is just one person expressing views that are shared by people all around the world. The important thing is for everyone to not force their views on each other.

Who forced their views on JP?

I agree, but i suspect its the pseudoscience and lying that turn other educated people off to him

While JP isnt THE problem, he is a problem. Again here it seems like your underselling his influences

 

[igor_kavinski]

he is a problem

Maybe. I guess I don't know the full extent of the problems he has caused, other than his views on Trump and Russia which I find surprising. Either something has gone wrong in his head or he was always this way. I don't know which for sure.

 

[nakedfrog]

It's not just his views though. They aren't original. He has a huge following because people found that someone famous holds the same views as they do. Everyone is supposed to have free will so you will get differing views. What you call progressive views may sound like a death knell to someone else so they will object fiercely to those views. JP isn't the problem. He is just one person expressing views that are shared by people all around the world. The important thing is for everyone to not force their views on each other.

He's selling anti-feminism/appeal to patriarchy in an "I Am Very Smart" wrapper.
Conservatives are not in favor of free will, they are in favor of forcing their views on other people. Witness: Roe Vs Wade, deporting immigrants who have expressed pro-Palestine views, putting the Ten Commandments in schools, protesting drag queen story hours, outlawing pornography, and so on.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Witness: Roe Vs Wade, deporting immigrants who have expressed pro-Palestine views, putting the Ten Commandments in schools, protesting drag queen story hours, outlawing pornography, and so on.

Does he support all that?

 

[ch33zw1z]

Does he support all that?

Maybe, maybe not. Why not read more about JP?

A problem with JP, is depending on his audience, he says different things

 

[nakedfrog]

Does he support all that?

Not particularly relevant, as I was speaking to your post in general with regards to conservatives.

 

[dlerious]

Not sure. Depends on his knowledge of those disciplines. I guess he would need to have at least one published paper for each to claim to be both.

I don't have the time to check, but I didn't find anything in my limited search. Here's a couple of lists. Maybe you'll have better luck.

https://research.com/journals-rankings/neuroscience

https://research.com/journals-rankings/ecology-and-evolution

 

[igor_kavinski]

Dang. He's been busy: https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=wL1F22UAAAAJ&hl=en

 

[ch33zw1z]

Dang. He's been busy: https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=wL1F22UAAAAJ&hl=en

Ok, so do you agree that his influence is larger than you previously thought?

Oddly enough, it doesnt say he’s professor of neuroscience, or evolutionary biology, or climatology. Yet he feels inclined to both say and behave like he is.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Oddly enough, it doesnt say he’s professor of neuroscience, or evolutionary biology, or climatology.

He does have this: https://www.researchgate.net/profil...hology-of-motivation-for-group-aggression.pdf

He also seems to have co-authored this but there's no article accessible there: https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0,5&cluster=1355655494927988863

There might be a modicum of truth to his claims in that he believes he is a neuroscientist or climate scientist because he thinks he has done the necessary research without actually working in those positions. Doesn't make him an expert. On that, I agree.

 

[ch33zw1z]

He does have this: https://www.researchgate.net/profil...hology-of-motivation-for-group-aggression.pdf

He also seems to have co-authored this but there's no article accessible there: https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0,5&cluster=1355655494927988863

There might be a modicum of truth to his claims in that he believes he is a neuroscientist or climate scientist because he thinks he has done the necessary research without actually working in those positions. Doesn't make him an expert. On that, I agree.

1.
“Neuropsychology and mythology of motivation for group aggression” - um ok.

2. Literally all the second link says for me, in 2 browsers. Am i doing something wrong here? I see you wrote its inaccessible, this must be what you mean. Is that list of people credited with the article? Cuz oh man, lol.

 

[brycejones]

Maybe. I guess I don't know the full extent of the problems he has caused, other than his views on Trump and Russia which I find surprising. Either something has gone wrong in his head or he was always this way. I don't know which for sure.

He's been an absolute shit for years now. Not sure what is confusing about this.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Yet, he portrays himself as a a trusted source on these matters like climate change, neuroscience, and whatever else he just says on stage.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Read this article I posted, it has plenty of information and links to backup stuff

Lol this guy:

That Jordan Peterson Is a Crank: A Handy Guide • Richard Carrier Blogs

Jordan Peterson has already become a joke in many circles. But enough remain mesmerized by his shtick to warrant a survey of why he’s just another pseudoscientific guru running a con. He is, essentially, the Deepak Chopra of the Nones; and his books, akin to The Secret for incels, angry men, and...

www.richardcarrier.info

 

[ch33zw1z]

<3 reddit …for now

https://www.reddit.com/r/enoughpetersonspam/s/lRMagyimr5

This stuff is super ez to find bro, the guy is as dishonest as they come.

 

[igor_kavinski]

He's been an absolute shit for years now. Not sure what is confusing about this.

He does have over 1400 videos on his Youtube channel so not easy to form an opinion by just watching a few of those. Also, YT's algorithm doesn't show me videos where people point him out to be a crackpot so maybe those videos are not that popular? In any case, I will say that I'm undecided on whether JP is a real danger.

 

[brycejones]

He does have over 1400 videos on his Youtube channel so not easy to form an opinion by just watching a few of those. Also, YT's algorithm doesn't show me videos where people point him out to be a crackpot so maybe those videos are not that popular? In any case, I will say that I'm undecided on whether JP is a real danger.

Any consistent source of of dis/misinformation is a danger. JP is one of those.

 

[igor_kavinski]

https://www.reddit.com/r/enoughpetersonspam/s/lRMagyimr5

Thank you for this. The video discusses a great topic.

I see JP saying that religion unites the members of a religion. So he sees utility in religion. As a tool for uniting people for a common purpose or goal. And from a behavioral perspective, I think he likes that because unity brings order to what otherwise would be lawless chaos. But yes, as he notes, different religions fighting each other or religions waging wars on the non-religious is unfortunate. I can see merit in his thinking. He thinks socially, on what is better for humans in general. So I guess, get to work on making a better religion so he can proselytize?

 

[nakedfrog]

He does have over 1400 videos on his Youtube channel so not easy to form an opinion by just watching a few of those. Also, YT's algorithm doesn't show me videos where people point him out to be a crackpot so maybe those videos are not that popular? In any case, I will say that I'm undecided on whether JP is a real danger.

He works for the Daily Wire.
If you view JP's videos, YT is not likely to share with you videos of people tearing him down, it will show you even more right-wing content. YT is very eager to recommend alt-right pipeline content.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Thank you for this. The video discusses a great topic.

I see JP saying that religion unites the members of a religion. So he sees utility in religion. As a tool for uniting people for a common purpose or goal. And from a behavioral perspective, I think he likes that because unity brings order to what otherwise would be lawless chaos. But yes, as he notes, different religions fighting each other or religions waging wars on the non-religious is unfortunate. I can see merit in his thinking. He thinks socially, on what is better for humans in general. So I guess, get to work on making a better religion so he can proselytize?

Yes, carl sagan refers to religiousness, even across religions, as social lubrication. And while religion provide a framework previously, its not necessity or the only way society can be lubricated. In the US, the constitution should be providing that, but that means that society reads and understands it. It means that when you say the pledge of allegiance and quote “liberty and justice for all” you actually mean it, for example

So i dont think he sees it better for all humans socially, but those humans he deems acceptable.

 

[igor_kavinski]

In the US, the constitution should be providing that, but that means that society reads and understands it. It means that when you say the pledge of allegiance and quote “liberty and justice for all” you actually mean it, for example

Good point. Schools really should've focused more on that.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Good point. Schools really should've focused more on that.

I went to christian school, american history, American government, bill of rights and the constitution, none of this was part of the curriculum . Going forward, im not sure how much of it will be even in public schools

What i know now ive learned on my own. Other people very possibly the same way, ive known many Christian school kids and home school kids it was the same for

 

[pmv]

My problem with this topic is, though I have zero affection and no respect for Peterson, I can't muster a whole lot more for the entirety of his profession.

He seems an all-too-typical psychologist, to me (certainly a typical "clinical" one, which I gather is what he is?).

They're all pretty awful (in particular, over-confident to the point of narcissism, and full of unexamined bias), and the entire profession/discipline/industry has a seriously dismal track-record (both with regard to real-world results in actually helping people, professional ethics, and, for the academic strand, reproducible findings - not to mention the unusually high frequency of outright academic fraud).

Granted, I gather he's a Jungian, and they may be by far the worst of a bad bunch. But the whole field strikes me as intrinsically ideological (rather like economics). The disciples of Freud and Beck aren't much better (just not so associated with Nazis). That's only from general reading (and news stories) but my direct personal experiences with the profession very much reinforce that.

 

[igor_kavinski]

real-world results in actually helping people

JP helped at least one person here: https://publicsquaremag.org/faith/tributes/how-jordan-peterson-made-me-a-better-mother/

Again. Not saying he is good or bad. It's hard to form a definite opinion on him.

One could say in a sense that he's the excuse that some people are looking for to make a positive change in their lives.

 

[ch33zw1z]

JP helped at least one person here: https://publicsquaremag.org/faith/tributes/how-jordan-peterson-made-me-a-better-mother/

Again. Not saying he is good or bad. It's hard to form a definite opinion on him.

One could say in a sense that he's the excuse that some people are looking for to make a positive change in their lives.

If his books help people, good. That really doesn't change the other things that he has said and done that are not good.

Fwiw, the woman here is basically complaining about supportive words like “youre doing great” and apparently just wanted to hear:

“Dr. Peterson went on to explain the necessity, and purpose, found in taking responsibility for our difficulties and being honest about our contribution to them. “Get your act together bucko!” is his common tagline.”

Not exactly earth shattering. In fact, youll find entire groups of “personal responsibility “ believers.

She goes on to lament whatever failed doctrines of today means:
“You won’t find the failed doctrines of today: overdone affirmation or justification for pleasure-and-fulfillment-seeking. And you will gain from the lack of flattery and lowered expectations. The stereotype of the fragile and shallow woman is only grounded in the truth we give it. If we want to be strong—we can’t seek shelter from the harsh truth of our own folly. We can’t be naive or passive. Women have tremendous power. We influence our children and the world through our spirituality, intellect, nurture, and love. If we continually listen to voices that keep us complacent, that reassure us into submission, or twist our desire for joy into selfishness—we will become fragile women. If we seek out skim milk, then meat will seem too heavy for us.

“Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of Him that sent me, and to finish His work” (John 4:34).”

overall, she kinda seems like shes selling something, just like JP.

But in this case, at least hes staying in his wheel house instead of pretending to be an authority in something else thats hes really not