• Guest, The rules for the P & N subforum have been updated to prohibit "ad hominem" or personal attacks against other posters. See the full details in the post "Politics and News Rules & Guidelines."
  • Community Question: What makes a good motherboard?

OPEC deal collapse sparks price war: ‘$20 oil in 2020 is coming’

Page 4 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

pete6032

Diamond Member
Dec 3, 2010
4,835
729
126
Actually road damage increases dramatically with extra weight in greater than linear manner. It’s what Michigan roads are pulverized to shit because we have highest allowed weights in the country.
I think MI also has one of the lowest gas taxes around.
 

thilanliyan

Lifer
Jun 21, 2005
11,119
975
126
They should definitely be as low as possible, everywhere. More money in people's pockets is a good thing.
For someone who cares so much about unborn babies (and I believe you do), that is a VERY short-sighted view on the kind of world those babies will grow up in.

Why would you think it's a good idea to burn fossil fuels without considering the long (and short) term consequences?
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
60,238
12,750
136
Ok, I may be wading into conspiracy theory territory here... but what game is the President playing here? Does he even know what he’s playing at??



What does an oil price war that hurts US shale producers accomplish for Trump?
Conspiracy or not, Trump will brag about low gasoline prices if they come to pass. Trump lives in the 1980s.
 

[DHT]Osiris

Diamond Member
Dec 15, 2015
8,007
3,826
146
Ok, I may be wading into conspiracy theory territory here... but what game is the President playing here? Does he even know what he’s playing at??



What does an oil price war that hurts US shale producers accomplish for Trump?
Lower gas prices leading up to the election. I think he wanted it more around December, had to move it up due to COVID-19.

He's a dinosaur.
 

Atreus21

Lifer
Aug 21, 2007
12,017
571
126
For someone who cares so much about unborn babies (and I believe you do), that is a VERY short-sighted view on the kind of world those babies will grow up in.

Why would you think it's a good idea to burn fossil fuels without considering the long (and short) term consequences?
Poor people shouldn't be made to pay higher prices to get to work because their moral betters have a savior complex.
 

herm0016

Diamond Member
Feb 26, 2005
7,312
375
126
Certainly not less in the consumer's pockets.
it's less in mine, and the other 2-300 k people that work in the industry or are supported by it just in CO. most of those jobs are high wage, and oil people love to spend in a boom. all that spending dries up very quickly.


Saudi called Russia's bluff. Russia will come back to the table. they can't compete on price with the sauds, and Bin Salmon knows that. Bin Salmon is playing with a few cards in his pocket. if this is not a bit better in a couple weeks time, its going to make the virus contraction into a full on much worse than 08 recession. Hold on to your butts.

i'm worried about them being in cahoots to lower production of NG in the US with a "let it all burn" mentality.


oil should be expensive! I love it when oil is expensive. I never understood why people think the industry wants the thing they sell to be cheap. it makes absolutely no sense, and its not true at all. you should have seen the parties when it was 100 per barrel.
 

herm0016

Diamond Member
Feb 26, 2005
7,312
375
126
So you do or don't believe in climate change caused by humans?

Its about climate equity. It's going to be a huge massive and terrible problem in the years to come. most people do not want to talk about it, because they are comfortable white people looking for a cause to support. Things will get more expensive as we move towards more sustainable solutions to our issues. truth, fact. you can lie all you want about it but it does not change the reality that low income people will be much more effected by the change. they can't afford a new EV, and they cant afford to have the price of energy or food or anything else rise.
There are millions of people that work in attractive industries that will be looking for new careers. I have already started that, but even as a technically skilled, high performing person, its very hard to get other industries to look at someone with 11 years in an extraction industry.

keep sticking your head in the sand, problem is, its not your life, its millions of other peoples lives you are screwing with.


and its not to say there is nothing to be done, or we should not do anything about the climate. We should, You should, do everything we can to reduce our emissions. as a family, we certainly give it a shot. on the state/government level its got to be a holistic approach otherwise we will continue to fail.
 

thilanliyan

Lifer
Jun 21, 2005
11,119
975
126
and its not to say there is nothing to be done, or we should not do anything about the climate. We should, You should, do everything we can to reduce our emissions. as a family, we certainly give it a shot. on the state/government level its got to be a holistic approach otherwise we will continue to fail.
I've worked in a the oil and gas sector of Alberta, so I know what low prices do to the economy.
I agree with your points, and I think oil/gas prices should be high, which is why I responded to Atreus since he thinks it should be as low as possible.

I think it should be high not only so it doesn't screw over those people working in the extraction industry but also to push people towards more efficient modes of transport. If it's super low it will just push people towards less efficient vehicles, which means less investment from auto manufacturers on the more efficient vehicles, meaning they will stay as a rich person's toy. Yes, there are many areas affected by an increase in gas prices and a balance is key. I don't think it should cost 10x as much as it does now or anything, but the overall trend needs to be increasing, not decreasing if we are to eventually wean ourselves off it.
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
44,173
3,790
136
Looks like 26 is the top of the charts for the 2020 F150. Took nearly seven seconds to find that piece of information.
Add lumber racks, tool boxes, a dump trailer, and you can get that right down around 10 in no time.
How about . . . if you have a contractor's license you pay less gas tax than the urban "look at me in my penis extender" pick-me-ups? Those fuckers can pay for their vanity.
 
Dec 10, 2005
20,505
1,828
126
Poor people shouldn't be made to pay higher prices to get to work because their moral betters have a savior complex.
Driving is already a crazy expensive drag on poor people, whether they even drive or not. If you really wanted to help them, build out mass transit, encourage denser development with affordable housing, and make transit user-fee-free.

And then never mind the effect of all that auto pollution on their health.
 

1prophet

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
5,210
456
126
How about a dynamic tax that fluctuates with price so the consumer sees stable prices and the tax windfall goes to infrastructure along with a tax rebate check for those Americans affected while promoting clean energy independence over the long term so OPEC, Russians, etc. can eventually be told to go pound salt,

this way we can Make America Great Again but call it a Freedom tax so it won't be confused with socialism.
 
Nov 8, 2012
17,655
3,414
126
How about a dynamic tax that fluctuates with price so the consumer sees stable prices and the tax windfall goes to infrastructure along with a tax rebate check for those Americans affected while promoting clean energy independence over the long term so OPEC, Russians, etc. can eventually be told to go pound salt,

this way we can Make America Great Again but call it a Freedom tax so it won't be confused with socialism.
The tax currently doesn't fluctuate because the cost to repair or build a road doesn't fluctuate... hence it's simply 18.4 cents per gallon for gasoline and 24.4 cents per gallon for diesel. Regardless of if there is a price war with Saudi Arabia / Russia, if you fill up 16 gallons you pay 16 gallons * tax rate. If anything though, we do need to drastically increase this amount to account for inflation and the number of drivers, since these rates haven't been touched since 1993.... nearly 30 years.

This is also ridiculously difficult to account for for a lot of companies - but hey, it's part of the reason I'm employed :p
 
Nov 8, 2012
17,655
3,414
126
MissedThePoint.jpg?

I'm saying that if there is a price war with gasoline - and price per gallon goes from $5 per gallon to $1 per gallon (80% reduction) that doesn't mean the labor and material costs for road and maintenance are also reduced by 80%.


At no point in that was I indicating that inflation isn't a factor, which I wouldn't categorize as "fluctuate". It's a constant thing year by year. Our income tax brackets adjust every year based on inflation. Our max 401k contributions adjust every year based on inflation. Our IRA contributions adjust every year based on inflation. Why doesn't our gasoline tax?
 

[DHT]Osiris

Diamond Member
Dec 15, 2015
8,007
3,826
146
MissedThePoint.jpg?

I'm saying that if there is a price war with gasoline - and price per gallon goes from $5 per gallon to $1 per gallon (80% reduction) that doesn't mean the labor and material costs for road and maintenance are also reduced by 80%.


At no point in that was I indicating that inflation isn't a factor, which I wouldn't categorize as "fluctuate". It's a constant thing year by year. Our income tax brackets adjust every year based on inflation. Our max 401k contributions adjust every year based on inflation. Our IRA contributions adjust every year based on inflation. Why doesn't our gasoline tax?
Understood, when someone says fluctuate, I certainly mean 'since the last time the price was changed'.... in this case, it's changed a lot on 30y, and yes, tax should have gone up to compensate.
 
May 13, 2009
12,251
439
126
Handouts are not socialism if it helps the "right" people...right?
I think it's not a bad idea. Are we going to let all the oil and gas companies close down so we can become 100% dependant on foreign oil. That's exactly what Putin and the Saudis want. I say they pay back whatever assistance they get later on when prices come back up.
 

thilanliyan

Lifer
Jun 21, 2005
11,119
975
126
I think it's not a bad idea. Are we going to let all the oil and gas companies close down so we can become 100% dependant on foreign oil. That's exactly what Putin and the Saudis want. I say they pay back whatever assistance they get later on when prices come back up.
I very much agree.
Can we also agree that socialism (and I'm not only talking about this particular case) can be good?
 

Atreus21

Lifer
Aug 21, 2007
12,017
571
126
it's less in mine, and the other 2-300 k people that work in the industry or are supported by it just in CO. most of those jobs are high wage, and oil people love to spend in a boom. all that spending dries up very quickly.


Saudi called Russia's bluff. Russia will come back to the table. they can't compete on price with the sauds, and Bin Salmon knows that. Bin Salmon is playing with a few cards in his pocket. if this is not a bit better in a couple weeks time, its going to make the virus contraction into a full on much worse than 08 recession. Hold on to your butts.

i'm worried about them being in cahoots to lower production of NG in the US with a "let it all burn" mentality.


oil should be expensive! I love it when oil is expensive. I never understood why people think the industry wants the thing they sell to be cheap. it makes absolutely no sense, and its not true at all. you should have seen the parties when it was 100 per barrel.
300,000 employees of the oil and gas industry versus the totality of American gas consumers. I'll take the latter, particularly since it's a function of market conditions, not government imposition.

Several hundred million people shouldn't have to pay arbitrarily higher prices so that 300,000 people can have better job security. Market conditions change, and businesses and consumers alike should be exposed to both the good and bad results of that.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: ivwshane

ASK THE COMMUNITY