Only 24% Voters Know Cap And Trade Is About Enviroment

BarrySotero

Banned
Apr 30, 2009
509
0
0
"Congress Pushes Cap and Trade, But Just 24% Know What It Is"

"Given a choice of three options, just 24% of voters can correctly identify the cap-and-trade proposal as something that deals with environmental issues. A slightly higher number (29%) believe the proposal has something to do with regulating Wall Street while 17% think the term applies to health care reform. A plurality (30%) have no idea. "


http://www.rasmussenreports.co...ust_24_know_what_it_is


Few people know what cap and trade is - I am sure even less know it works or what it costs.

Concerning cap and trade costs- there was a recent tuss-up over the schemes costs per houshold. Some Republicans recently used an MIT study from 2007 to say costs per household would be $3900 per year.

A lot of people objected to this figure. Olbermann was on TV saying the cost was only $79 a year. The study's author from MIT (John Reilly) said the cost would be $215.05.

Professor Reilly went after Johm Boehner (R-Ohio) for "intentionally misrepresenting Reilly?s cap-and-trade study to claim that President Obama?s emissions reduction scheme would cost American families more than $3,000 a year. 'It?s just wrong,' Reilly told the St. Petersburg Times in reference to Boehner?s use of his study. 'It?s wrong in so many ways it?s hard to begin.'?. Reilly called GOP claim a "Pants on Fire" falsehood.


Then Reilly backtracked.

"MIT professor John Reilly admitted to the Weekly Standard on April 22, 2009 that "the annual cost would be '$800 per household', he wrote. 'I made a boneheaded mistake in an excel spread sheet. I have sent a new letter to Republicans correcting my error (and to others).'"

That's not where the math problems stopped however. For Reilly , the $800 only represented the cost per household of "'all those actions people have to take to reduce their use of fossil fuels or find ways to use them without releasing [Green House Gases],' Reilly wrote. 'So that might involve spending money on insulating your home, or buying a more expensive hybrid vehicle to drive, or electric utilities substituting gas (or wind, nuclear, or solar) instead of coal in power generation, or industry investing in more efficient motors or production processes, etc. with all of these things ending up reflected in the costs of good and services in the economy.'"

Aside form the costs of retro-fits etc. Reilly estimates "the amount of tax collected" through companies would equal $3,128 per household--and "Those costs do get passed to consumers and income earners".

However Reilly did not see that as an expense to consumers because they will be getting benefits back from the gov.

The tax costs have "nothing to do with the real cost" to the economy. Reilly said the $3,128 will be "returned" to each household.

"Without that assumption, Reilly wrote, 'the cost would then be the Republican estimate [$3,128] plus the cost I estimate [$800].'"

"In Reilly's view, the $3,128 taken through taxes will be "returned" to each household whether or not the government cuts a $3,128 rebate check to each household"

Only about 30% of Americans care a lot about warming. Only 24% can chose the plan as about the environment. How many of them know what it will cost if the academics and media can't even keep the figures together?

O & Co are relying on this scheme to fund the budget that has quadrupled debt (and its not even 6 months yet). Hes nuking the budget while nuking energy costs and infrastructure to pay for it. American people would never support this if they actually knew what the heck was going on and what it will do to them and economy.


During campaign Obama said the program would carry a high price:

?Under my plan of a cap and trade system electricity rates would necessarily skyrocket. Businesses would have to retrofit their operations. That will cost money. They will pass that cost onto consumers.?

So when you see polls showing 60% of people supporting approving Obama it's fair to say hardly any of them know what Obama would do to them and economy that supports them.

 

Jiggz

Diamond Member
Mar 10, 2001
4,329
0
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Prof Reilly's back-tracking is not uncommon and in fact is the de facto standard of this administration. It's actually the "change" (i.e. change minds and decisions to fit and support political goals) they campaigned about!
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
No surprise, there was an amendment last fall in MN to add a state tax to pay for arts and enviornment. Just 19% knew what the amendment was yet 81% said they would vote yes.
We are just one grade higher than cattle in some situations.
 

NeoV

Diamond Member
Apr 18, 2000
9,504
2
81
I'd caution people that are right-leaning to consider what percentage of voters that voted for Bush thought that Iraq had something to do w/9-11 before you got all hot and bothered about this.

I'd wager you could take about half of the issues discussed in today's US political world and the common voters would have little to no knowledge about a great many of them - this is true today, this was true under Repub presidents, and it isn't likely to change anytime soon.
 

frostedflakes

Diamond Member
Mar 1, 2005
7,925
1
81
Originally posted by: NeoV
I'd caution people that are right-leaning to consider what percentage of voters that voted for Bush thought that Iraq had something to do w/9-11 before you got all hot and bothered about this.

I'd wager you could take about half of the issues discussed in today's US political world and the common voters would have little to no knowledge about a great many of them - this is true today, this was true under Repub presidents, and it isn't likely to change anytime soon.
Unfortunately, this. I can't really blame people either, I spend quite a bit of time keeping up with current events and still am not as knowledgeable as I'd like to be on many important issues. It's difficult to be an informed voter and many people just do not have the desire or the time.
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,161
7
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There will be three outcomes if we pass cap and trade.


1. It will act as a giant anchor around the economy slowing down economic growth.

2. It will ensure that Republicans retake power once people realized that cap and trade is nothing more than a HUGE tax on energy.

3. It will ensure Republicans keep power for a decent time because once they remove the law our economy will explode.
 

BarrySotero

Banned
Apr 30, 2009
509
0
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Originally posted by: frostedflakes
Originally posted by: NeoV
I'd caution people that are right-leaning to consider what percentage of voters that voted for Bush thought that Iraq had something to do w/9-11 before you got all hot and bothered about this.

I'd wager you could take about half of the issues discussed in today's US political world and the common voters would have little to no knowledge about a great many of them - this is true today, this was true under Repub presidents, and it isn't likely to change anytime soon.
Unfortunately, this. I can't really blame people either, I spend quite a bit of time keeping up with current events and still am not as knowledgeable as I'd like to be on many important issues. It's difficult to be an informed voter and many people just do not have the desire or the time.

I think the media just doesn't articulate many issues anymore and are just friendly paparazzi where Obama is concerned. The bullying takeover of Chrysler was also under-reported. Obama came out and called creditors names and acted out the role of hero who was not going to let "vultures" abuse American people - when in reality he had mugged creditors. All many of the media did was report how nice the press conference went. The country is stuck in some Alice in Wonderland haze with no real idea of what is going on.

 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
13,650
201
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Originally posted by: ProfJohn
There will be three outcomes if we pass cap and trade.


1. It will act as a giant anchor around the economy slowing down economic growth.

2. It will ensure that Republicans retake power once people realized that cap and trade is nothing more than a HUGE tax on energy.

3. It will ensure Republicans keep power for a decent time because once they remove the law our economy will explode.

Yup. People are generally stupid, they don't know the difference between the cap and trade and NFL salary cap, but despite the ramblings of this professor Reilly and other Gorons, when people realize they'll be paying an average of around $4000 MORE per year to heat their homes etc, there's going to be hell to pay.
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: ayabe
That $4000 figure has been discredited, and MIT actually issued a statement a while back asking that people not distort their findings.

Actually here it is:

"Today, Professor Reilly sent a forceful letter to Boehner and the Select Committee on Energy Independence and Global Warming to denounce this blatant distortion being told by Congressional Republicans. Reilly noted that $3,100 was actually ?10 times the correct estimate which is approximately $340? and that the costs on lower and middle income households can be ?completely offset by returning allowance revenue to these households?:

It has come to my attention that an analysis we conducted examining proposals to reduce greenhouse gas emissions, Report No., 146, Assessment of U.S. Cap-and-Trade Proposals, has been misrepresented in recent press releases distributed by the National Republican Congressional Committee. The press release claims our report estimates an average cost per family of a carbon cap and trade program that would meet targets now being discussed in Congress to be over $3,000, but that is nearly 10 times the correct estimate which is approximately $340. [...] Our Report 160 shows that the costs on lower and middle income households can be completely offset by returning allowance revenue to these households."


Text

Here's the full letter: Text

You all need to lay off the sauce and stop distorting that report.

:laugh: talk about laying off the sauce... maybe Professor Reilly should have layed off the sauce so he wouldn't have made an excel error!
MIT professor John Reilly admitted that his original estimate of cap and trade's cost was inaccurate.....I made a boneheaded mistake in an excel spread sheet. I have sent a new letter to Republicans correcting my error (and to others)."
 

CrackRabbit

Lifer
Mar 30, 2001
16,642
62
91
Frankly I think the whole idea is silly.
Like the "Carbon Credits" its a huge scam that really ends up doing nothing for the environment.

Cleaning up the environment and keeping it clean is a good thing, but why go about it in such a stupid manner?
 

cubeless

Diamond Member
Sep 17, 2001
4,295
1
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Originally posted by: CrackRabbit
Frankly I think the whole idea is silly.
Like the "Carbon Credits" its a huge scam that really ends up doing nothing for the environment.

Cleaning up the environment and keeping it clean is a good thing, but why go about it in such a stupid manner?

but implementing and managing this will create a huge new wing of govt and put more of the control of energy in govt hands...
 

umbrella39

Lifer
Jun 11, 2004
13,816
1,126
126
BarrySotero?

Boy, now I bet that's someone who has never once had an account banned here before...
 

MovingTarget

Diamond Member
Jun 22, 2003
9,002
115
106
I don't support a cap and trade system, but in this case I will say that the RW propaganda on the subject has been bought hook, line, and sinker. Sigh.
 

EXman

Lifer
Jul 12, 2001
20,079
15
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Originally posted by: MovingTarget
I don't support a cap and trade system, but in this case I will say that the RW propaganda on the subject has been bought hook, line, and sinker. Sigh.

Do you think Cap and Trade isn't going to force up energy costs?
 

ajf3

Platinum Member
Oct 10, 2000
2,566
0
76
Nope - the vast majority will make out... for every $100k you make after the 1st $100k, you have to find 6 less fortunate souls and pay for any additional expenses that cap & trade may cause them. If you mail them their checks instead of transferring the funds electronically you _will_ be able to deduct the cost of the stamps on your 1040.

GoBama!
 

miketheidiot

Lifer
Sep 3, 2004
11,060
1
0
Originally posted by: umbrella39
BarrySotero?

Boy, now I bet that's someone who has never once had an account banned here before...

he showed up pretty much the day winnar got banned.
 

miketheidiot

Lifer
Sep 3, 2004
11,060
1
0
cap and trade is an excellent idea and has very strong fundamentals.

the idea that cap and trade would cost 5% of gdp is completely asinine, someone link the study please.
 

QuantumPion

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2005
6,010
1
76
If cap & tax is passed, there WILL be massive rate increases. And the same politicians that passed C&T will blame the greedy corporations for raising poor people's electricity bills.
 

Robor

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
16,979
0
76
Originally posted by: miketheidiot
Originally posted by: umbrella39
BarrySotero?

Boy, now I bet that's someone who has never once had an account banned here before...

he showed up pretty much the day winnar got banned.

The good thing is moronic trolls like winnar, I mean BarrySotero, only denigrate their own causes.
 

feralkid

Lifer
Jan 28, 2002
16,852
4,960
136
Good grief, winnar!

atsa matta for you?

Why have you chosen to troll up anandtech so much?

Can't you find some other place that will tolerate you?

Don't you realize you're not fooling anyone here, and will soon be found out and banned again?