One thing I never understood about OT: That everyone thinks engineering degrees are > *. WARNING: LONG POST W/ RANTING

[Veramocor]

I think his argument in summary is that the United States in particular values 9salary wise) professions that may be easier than engineering and don't really produce anything like Finance or business.

 

[Safeway]

Originally posted by: Farang

Originally posted by: Safeway
Engineering degrees are > *. There are only two PROFESSIONAL undergraduate programs -- Engineering and Nursing. Engineering graduates are qualified to do anything any other major is qualified to do, AND their own profession. Business, law, medicine, communications, marketing, engineering ...

So yes, Engineering > ALL.

Engineering grads are glorified mechanics. Highly intelligent in a technical field, but often they'll be dumb as shit in anything outside their field.

not universal, of course.

If I had to choose which part of your post was more truthful, it'd be the bold section.

Highly intelligent people cannot be dumb as shit in outside fields. Engineers are good in law, finance, business, and fuck, even liberal arts and true arts. At least, the engineers I socialized with.

 

[Engineer]

Here's a :beer: to make the OP, beer, feel better.

 

[Safeway]

Originally posted by: eLiu
That said, with a degree in math & aerospace engineering, I confidently feel like I could handle any of the following: physics, applied math, aero, civil, mechanical, nuclear, compsci, EE, and economics. Surely not as well as someone who spent 4+ yrs studying that stuff, but i think math/engy gave me a strong enough background/foundation to adapt to many other fields. But like biology/chem, any humanities, business, psych, theoretical math... fuck no.

THAT is engineering.

 

[Farang]

Originally posted by: IAteYourMother

Originally posted by: Farang

Originally posted by: Safeway
Engineering degrees are > *. There are only two PROFESSIONAL undergraduate programs -- Engineering and Nursing. Engineering graduates are qualified to do anything any other major is qualified to do, AND their own profession. Business, law, medicine, communications, marketing, engineering ...

So yes, Engineering > ALL.

Engineering grads are glorified mechanics. Highly intelligent in a technical field, but often they'll be dumb as shit in anything outside their field.

not universal, of course.

I would tend to disagree, but whatever.

I should revise that. Not dumb as shit, but not automatically know-it-alls because they have an engineering degree. Not too hard to figure out that if you don't study politics or history, you'll know as much about politics and history as Cletus working in the 7-11. Because liberal arts get trashed people tend to think they can jump right in (they're a college grad after all, and smart!)

I'll be the first to admit liberal arts is easier, but that does not mean you don't learn anything

 

[Babbles]

Originally posted by: Veramocor
I think his argument in summary is that the United States in particular values 9salary wise) professions that may be easier than engineering and don't really produce anything like Finance or business.

I don't think that is a very fair thing to say, and simply put it is a very ignorant and uninformed statement. You seem to reflect a relatively common notion that the only produced item of value has to be some physical product. Concepts, ideas, marketing, management, investment all have products. It is absolutely silly and intellectually dishonest to think otherwise.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: Veramocor
I think his argument in summary is that the United States in particular values 9salary wise) professions that may be easier than engineering and don't really produce anything like Finance or business.

If you are talking about salaries rising quickly, yes. Starting wise, not so much.

Top 10 college majors starting salaries.

 

[rh71]

so basically you only get geek points for being EE...

you have to actually love the work or it's not really fulfilling.

 

[Special K]

.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: Special K
I'm not sure what to say here, except that there are probably people in EE who enjoy their job, just as there are probably people in finance who hate it. It's a big world out there, and EE and finance are broad enough that I doubt everyone has the same experience.

I enjoy my job 90% of the time. Maybe it's the working conditions....maybe both. But..I work in automation where it's a mixture of design and programming.....more large scale stuff (robots, etc).

Footnote: I dislike the payment structure lately (5% pay cut, no overtime) but that's hopefully about to end as this fucking recession seems to be ending.

 

[Safeway]

Originally posted by: Farang
I'll be the first to admit liberal arts is easier, but that does not mean you don't learn anything

I do not subscribe to the ATOT mindset on engineering, that is, that every single human should be an engineer. It isn't practical in the least.

We need sorority girls to study French in college so they can be the hot French teacher in middle schools and high schools. We need uninformed high school seniors to majors such as biology, chemistry, physics, mathematics, language studies, U.S. history, European history, and psychology. We need them to discontinue their educational career without pursuing graduate studies.

Why? Because we need educated teachers. We need an educated work-force. So many history majors end up sitting in a cubicle all day, doing work that they never intended to do, and we need those people doing that work.

 

[Svnla]

I said this in an old thread a while back. The top dogs (C's level) at the large companies (Fortune 500 companies) mostly have business related degrees.

 

[Babbles]

Originally posted by: Safeway

Originally posted by: Farang

Originally posted by: Safeway
Engineering degrees are > *. There are only two PROFESSIONAL undergraduate programs -- Engineering and Nursing. Engineering graduates are qualified to do anything any other major is qualified to do, AND their own profession. Business, law, medicine, communications, marketing, engineering ...

So yes, Engineering > ALL.

Engineering grads are glorified mechanics. Highly intelligent in a technical field, but often they'll be dumb as shit in anything outside their field.

not universal, of course.

If I had to choose which part of your post was more truthful, it'd be the bold section.

Highly intelligent people cannot be dumb as shit in outside fields. Engineers are good in law, finance, business, and fuck, even liberal arts and true arts. At least, the engineers I socialized with.

I think you may have contradicted yourself. Your answer in a previous question was essentially that it genuinely depends on the person, not the degree. However you are now saying that it engineering is superior. So in your opinion it is the degree and not the person? Or the other way around? Which is it?

Anyhow, I think you may be wrong about people being dumb as shit in other fields. I wouldn't use those words, but after working ten years as a professional scientist I have seen crazy smart people turn somewhat stupid when they stepped outside their realm of expertise. Then again I have seen a few handful of people who were crazy good at everything they did. It is the person, not the degree.

 

[Farang]

Originally posted by: Safeway

Originally posted by: Farang
I'll be the first to admit liberal arts is easier, but that does not mean you don't learn anything

I do not subscribe to the ATOT mindset on engineering, that is, that every single human should be an engineer. It isn't practical in the least.

We need sorority girls to study French in college so they can be the hot French teacher in middle schools and high schools. We need uninformed high school seniors to majors such as biology, chemistry, physics, mathematics, language studies, U.S. history, European history, and psychology. We need them to discontinue their educational career without pursuing graduate studies.

Why? Because we need educated teachers. We need an educated work-force. So many history majors end up sitting in a cubicle all day, doing work that they never intended to do, and we need those people doing that work.

The elitist cycling attorney from Texas.

Indeed. Let's leave it at that so I can appreciate the brilliant caricature you've created for all of us to enjoy

 

[brxndxn]

EE's... so sad..

I did EE for 3 years.. got in a car accident.. had to take muscle relaxers.. ended up with a political science degree.. barely..

Guess what?

I'm in a position to hire EE's now - 3 years out of college.

I still think EE is god.. but only for the right people with EE. Most EE's I work with are NOT leaders. I can see your frustration.. but all I can say is 'quit fucking conforming.' Think outside the box.. don't be afraid to piss off your superiors.. If you are told to do something to solve a problem in a stupid time-consuming manner, solve it the fast way first.. and answer questions later. If you get fired.. who gives a shit? You have an EE.. you can get hired anywhere... Are you sick of your pay? Fucking earn more pay elsewhere.. How easily can you be replaced? How about you maximize the impossibility of replacement?

I don't know of any other degree (and I had 4 different majors in college) that teaches you to completely 'conform' more than an EE..

I have a natural 'fit' with IT.. Right now, I am so glad I did not finish that EE degree.. I cannot imagine a better place for me right now in my career..

The sad thing is that I sometimes think I'll go back and finish my EE.. to get that PE..

In other words.. I have total respect for those that actually earned the degree.. and I have total disdain for how that degree changes a person..

 

[Safeway]

Originally posted by: Babbles

Originally posted by: Safeway

Originally posted by: Farang

Originally posted by: Safeway
Engineering degrees are > *. There are only two PROFESSIONAL undergraduate programs -- Engineering and Nursing. Engineering graduates are qualified to do anything any other major is qualified to do, AND their own profession. Business, law, medicine, communications, marketing, engineering ...

So yes, Engineering > ALL.

Engineering grads are glorified mechanics. Highly intelligent in a technical field, but often they'll be dumb as shit in anything outside their field.

not universal, of course.

If I had to choose which part of your post was more truthful, it'd be the bold section.

Highly intelligent people cannot be dumb as shit in outside fields. Engineers are good in law, finance, business, and fuck, even liberal arts and true arts. At least, the engineers I socialized with.

I think you may have contradicted yourself. Your answer in a previous question was essentially that it genuinely depends on the person, not the degree. However you are now saying that it engineering is superior. So in your opinion it is the degree and not the person? Or the other way around? Which is it?

Anyhow, I think you may be wrong about people being dumb as shit in other fields. I wouldn't use those words, but after working ten years as a professional scientist I have seen crazy smart people turn somewhat stupid when they stepped outside their realm of expertise. Then again I have seen a few handful of people who were crazy good at everything they did. It is the person, not the degree.

I caught myself applying the generalization, and pinned on the bold part before submitting the post. I'm talking about intelligent people that happen to be engineers.

 

[eLiu]

OP: Are you Indian?

No but in all seriousness, I say that b/c EE is actually the hot shit major in that country. (China too, I think.) People study for years (IIT entry exam) for a ridiculously competitive (i.e. competing w/the rest of the country) exam. You have to land in like the top 200 (in ALL of india!) to attend their best EE program.

I have a friend who's mother is a doctor (paediatrics); she *still* regrets not being able to study EE b/c of something silly she did on the exam (didn't give enough justification for answers).

I don't think EE (or any engineering degree for that matter) has that level of status in the US.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: Veramocor
I think his argument in summary is that the United States in particular values 9salary wise) professions that may be easier than engineering and don't really produce anything like Finance or business.

What an ignorant thing to say. It's entrepreneurs and financiers that allow ideas to go from paper/concept to shelf. They are the true talent and are very rare. You engineers are a dime a dozen.

 

[CanOWorms]

It sounds like you need a job change, not necessarily a career change.

 

[guyver01]

Originally posted by: beer
I work at a tech company in silicon valley that makes certain categories of peripherals that are in pretty much every laptop of every person reading this, making, no matter what you compare it to, significantly more than the average EE doing significantly more interesting work. In other words, by how AT defines success, I've done fairly well, which is why I think my opinion that the "EE is god" opinion is a big pile of steaming horse-shit should carry at least some weight.

sorry.. stopped reading right there.

"i make alot of money and therefore my opinion should carry some weight" says to me this is nothing more than a stroke-my-ego post and i wont have any of it.

 

[Safeway]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: Veramocor
I think his argument in summary is that the United States in particular values 9salary wise) professions that may be easier than engineering and don't really produce anything like Finance or business.

What an ignorant thing to say. It's entrepreneurs and financiers that allow ideas to go from paper/concept to shelf. They are the true talent and are very rare. You engineers are a dime a dozen.

Disagree. True talent in any field is very rare. You think that all finance or business majors become entrepreneurs and financiers? What about the "dime a dozen" auditors and accountants and middle-management?

Sure, investment is required for initial development in any field, but look at Intel. You have engineers driving the research and development. Financiers are not required when you have brilliant engineers taking "ideas ... from paper/concept to shelf."

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: zerocool84
I'll be first to say it:

Cliffs

wage monkey looks sadly at the partying executives paid a ton more to order him around doing his daily grind.

 

[eLiu]

Originally posted by: Safeway

Originally posted by: Babbles

Originally posted by: Safeway

Originally posted by: Farang

Originally posted by: Safeway
Engineering degrees are > *. There are only two PROFESSIONAL undergraduate programs -- Engineering and Nursing. Engineering graduates are qualified to do anything any other major is qualified to do, AND their own profession. Business, law, medicine, communications, marketing, engineering ...

So yes, Engineering > ALL.

Engineering grads are glorified mechanics. Highly intelligent in a technical field, but often they'll be dumb as shit in anything outside their field.

not universal, of course.

If I had to choose which part of your post was more truthful, it'd be the bold section.

Highly intelligent people cannot be dumb as shit in outside fields. Engineers are good in law, finance, business, and fuck, even liberal arts and true arts. At least, the engineers I socialized with.

I think you may have contradicted yourself. Your answer in a previous question was essentially that it genuinely depends on the person, not the degree. However you are now saying that it engineering is superior. So in your opinion it is the degree and not the person? Or the other way around? Which is it?

Anyhow, I think you may be wrong about people being dumb as shit in other fields. I wouldn't use those words, but after working ten years as a professional scientist I have seen crazy smart people turn somewhat stupid when they stepped outside their realm of expertise. Then again I have seen a few handful of people who were crazy good at everything they did. It is the person, not the degree.

I caught myself applying the generalization, and pinned on the bold part before submitting the post. I'm talking about intelligent people that happen to be engineers.

I think that's really the critical part. Regardless of what you studied in college, if you're smart & motivated, you'll be able to do a lot of things. I mean sure it'd hard to go from like... medieval french literature to condensed matter physics... and the number of people who do that is probably near 0... but if you took some physics/math classes & did some self-directed study at your french literature job, I have little doubt that a sufficiently intelligent person could make that transition.

Basically my point is that no amount of studying/training through coursework can make up for real intelligence and aptitude. I could study theoretical math for a decade, and some of the guys I know who attended the IMO would still put me to shame effortlessly. There are lots of people who go through 4 years of college, work hard (or not), but come out having little more than the ability to replicate solution procedures to problems that they've seen while lacking actual synthesis.

Intelligence. Either you have it or you don't. If you don't, hard work can cover some of the gap, but it's no substitute.

And I think that's true of a lot of people in a lot of majors, not just EE or even engineering in general.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: Safeway

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: Veramocor
I think his argument in summary is that the United States in particular values 9salary wise) professions that may be easier than engineering and don't really produce anything like Finance or business.

What an ignorant thing to say. It's entrepreneurs and financiers that allow ideas to go from paper/concept to shelf. They are the true talent and are very rare. You engineers are a dime a dozen.

Disagree. True talent in any field is very rare. You think that all finance or business majors become entrepreneurs and financiers? What about the "dime a dozen" auditors and accountants and middle-management?

Sure, investment is required for initial development in any field, but look at Intel. You have engineers driving the research and development. Financiers are not required when you have brilliant engineers taking "ideas ... from paper/concept to shelf."

What part of "entrepreneurs and financiers" don't you understand? But of course a leech lawyer like you who brings net negative value to society wouldn't understand.

Financiers are absolutely required to take ideas to market. I don't give a shit if it's your grandmother giving you a $50k loan or a VC buying preferred stock, no financier = no product.

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: Safeway

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: Veramocor
I think his argument in summary is that the United States in particular values 9salary wise) professions that may be easier than engineering and don't really produce anything like Finance or business.

What an ignorant thing to say. It's entrepreneurs and financiers that allow ideas to go from paper/concept to shelf. They are the true talent and are very rare. You engineers are a dime a dozen.

Disagree. True talent in any field is very rare. You think that all finance or business majors become entrepreneurs and financiers? What about the "dime a dozen" auditors and accountants and middle-management?

Sure, investment is required for initial development in any field, but look at Intel. You have engineers driving the research and development. Financiers are not required when you have brilliant engineers taking "ideas ... from paper/concept to shelf."

What part of "entrepreneurs and financiers" don't you understand? But of course a leech lawyer like you who brings net negative value to society wouldn't understand.

Financiers are absolutely required to take ideas to market. I don't give a shit if it's your grandmother giving you a $50k loan or a VC buying preferred stock, no financier = no product.

He's going into IP law which is required for patents for Engineers to get funding from the VCs, which completely rip off the engineers.

One leach's work requires another leach.