One more reason to vote against Bush in the Presidental Election!!!

Kerouactivist

Diamond Member
Jul 12, 2001
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link


I also recieved an email today from Moveon.org stating that they are trying to push this bill through anyway....

Last year, President Bush issued new rules that would deprive 8 million working
families of their right to overtime pay when they work more than 40 hours per
week. Both the full House and the full Senate have already voted to reject this
change and protect overtime, but cynical right-wing leaders in Congress have
stripped the language restoring overtime protection from a major, "omnibus"
spending bill, a bill that must soon pass in some form to keep the government
running.

In effect, President Bush and his right wing allies are holding the entire
federal government hostage to their mean-spirited goal of depriving millions of
working people of the basic right to overtime pay.

They're threatening the weekend too: gutting overtime will create a strong
incentive for employers to stretch the hours of each employee whose benefits and
other overhead costs they're already paying. As a result, many managers will
compel people to work inhuman hours.

Yes these are both liberal sources but, the facts are the facts.



EDIT:
Thanks for the move mod :)
 

Nitemare

Lifer
Feb 8, 2001
35,461
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The day I believe anything written by moveon.org is the the same day I will pay MSRP for a car
 

Amorphus

Diamond Member
Mar 31, 2003
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I'd like to hear the justifications behind this - contrary to popular belief, lawmakers aren't stupid. There are probably some deeper ramifications involved.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
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I don't think you really checked into the proposed changes to FLSA, you just read some AFLCIO (union) propaganda. There are some problems within the proposed changes which the House and Senate are working on. But for the most part, here is the rest of it:

The proposed rules would require overtime for as many as 1.3 million low-income workers who now do not receive it for working more than 40 hours a week. The regulations would not affect workers covered by union contract, but the Labor Department says as many as 22 million jobs may be covered by the new rules. The rules will only affect salaried, white-collar office workers who do not perform manual labor.

The proposed changes by the Bush administration are designed to update the definitions of "an employee employed in a bona fide executive, administrative or professional capacity, or the capacity of outside salesman."

Currently, workers earning up to $8,060 annually must receive overtime pay, a figure last adjusted in 1975. The proposed rule would increase that to $22,100 yearly. The Labor Department says this would mean overtime pay for 1.3 million workers who currently do not receive overtime. The proposed regulations rewrite definitions, some dating from 1949, as to which workers are exempt from mandatory overtime pay. The department and Republicans say these will clarify current rules; while Democrats and unions say the changes are designed to help employers forgo overtime.

There are tests known as the "Duties Test" and the "Salary Test" to determine if an employee fits into one of the above categories. The "duties test" is from the 1949 FLSA Rules, and the "salaries test" has not been modified since 1975. Duties test requirements are dropped that workers not devote more than one-fifth of their time to activities unrelated to their main job. Administrative employees would have to hold "a position of responsibility," doing work of "substantial importance" or "requiring a high level of skill or training." Another category - "learned professional employees" - now defined as learning their skills from "specialized intellectual instruction" could now also acquire them from work experience.
"Creative professional employees" will have to do work "requiring invention, imagination, originality or talent in a recognized field of artistic or creative endeavor," but will no longer have to "consistently exercise discretion and judgment."

The salaries used in the "long test" and "short test" of the old rule are way out of date for weekly earnings:

Long test - Executive = $155
Long test - Administrative = $155
Long test - Professional = $170
Short test - Admin, Exec & Prof. = $250

The proposed changes to the "Wage Test" to determine if one of these employees is exempt from FLSA overtime:

Standard test = $425
Highly Compensated = $1250

Overtime pay provisions of FLSA:
An employer who requires or permits an employee to work overtime is generally required to pay the employee premium pay for such overtime work.

Requirements:
Unless specifically exempted, employees covered by the Act must receive overtime pay for hours worked in excess of 40 in a workweek at a rate not less than time and one-half their regular rates of pay. There is no limit in the Act on the number of hours employees aged 16 and older may work in any workweek. The Act does not require overtime pay for work on Saturdays, Sundays, holidays, or regular days of rest, as such.

The Act applies on a workweek basis. An employee's workweek is a fixed and regularly recurring period of 168 hours -- seven consecutive 24-hour periods. It need not coincide with the calendar week, but may begin on any day and at any hour of the day. Different workweeks may be established for different employees or groups of employees. Averaging of hours over two or more weeks is not permitted. Normally, overtime pay earned in a particular workweek must be paid on the regular pay day for the pay period in which the wages were earned.

The regular rate of pay cannot be less than the minimum wage. The regular rate includes all remuneration for employment except certain payments excluded by the Act itself. Payments which are not part of the regular rate include pay for expenses incurred on the employer's behalf, premium payments for overtime work or the true premiums paid for work on Saturdays, Sundays, and holidays, discretionary bonuses, gifts and payments in the nature of gifts on special occasions, and payments for occasional periods when no work is performed due to vacation, holidays, or illness.

Earnings may be determined on a piece-rate, salary, commission, or some other basis, but in all such cases the overtime pay due must be computed on the basis of the average hourly rate derived from such earnings. This is calculated by dividing the total pay for employment (except for the noted statutory exclusions) in any workweek by the total number of hours actually worked.

Where an employee in a single workweek works at two or more different types of work for which different straight-time rates have been established, the regular rate for that week is the weighted average of such rates. That is, the earnings from all such rates are added together and this total is then divided by the total number of hours worked at all jobs.

Where non-cash payments are made to employees in the form of goods or facilities, the reasonable cost to the employer or fair value of such goods or facilities must be included in the regular rate.

Typical Problems the new Proposed Rule addresses:
Fixed Sum for Varying Amounts of Overtime: A lump sum paid for work performed during overtime hours without regard to the number of overtime hours worked does not qualify as an overtime premium even though the amount of money paid is equal to or greater than the sum owed on a per-hour basis. For example, no part of a flat sum of $90 to employees who work overtime on Sunday will qualify as an overtime premium, even though the employees' straight-time rate is $6.00 an hour and the employees always work less than 10 hours on Sunday. Similarly, where an agreement provides for 6 hours pay at $9.00 an hour regardless of the time actually spent for work on a job performed during overtime hours, the entire $54.00 must be included in determining the employees' regular rate.

Salary for Workweek Exceeding 40 Hours: A fixed salary for a regular workweek longer than 40 hours does not discharge FLSA statutory obligations. For example, an employee may be hired to work a 45 hour workweek for a weekly salary of $300. In this instance the regular rate is obtained by dividing the $300 straight-time salary by 45 hours, resulting in a regular rate of $6.67. The employee is then due additional overtime computed by multiplying the 5 overtime hours by one-half the regular rate of pay ($3.335 x 5 = $16.68).

Overtime Pay May Not Be Waived: The overtime requirement may not be waived by agreement between the employer and employees. An agreement that only 8 hours a day or only 40 hours a week will be counted as working time also fails the test of FLSA compliance. An announcement by the employer that no overtime work will be permitted, or that overtime work will not be paid for unless authorized in advance, also will not impair the employee's right to compensation for compensable overtime hours that are worked.

The Proposed Rule is 39 pages long, but as with all government rules and regulations, one must read it all to understand it. It is 29 CFR Part 541; A Proposed Rule Defining and Delimiting the Exemptions for Executive, Administrative, Professional, Outside Sales and Computer Employees. You may find here if you wish to read it:
http://www.dol.gov/esa/regs/fedreg/proposed/2003033101.pdf
 

Dissipate

Diamond Member
Jan 17, 2004
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You call that journalism? That is obviously left wing propaganda. Anyone who works a low paying job will tell you that overtime pay is their ENEMY. Think about it, with the overtime laws no low paying person can get any hours at their job, that's why they have to work 3 jobs just to support themselves, let alone their family.
 

Kerouactivist

Diamond Member
Jul 12, 2001
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The Bush administration claims its plan would give overtime protections to more workers by allowing anyone who earns $22,100 or less to automatically qualify for overtime pay. But many of those workers, such as fast-food employees, already are covered.

Maybe we should put the twelve year old's back in the sweatshops while we are at it.
 

Nitemare

Lifer
Feb 8, 2001
35,461
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Originally posted by: Dissipate
You call that journalism? That is obviously left wing propaganda. Anyone who works a low paying job will tell you that overtime pay is their ENEMY. Think about it, with the overtime laws no low paying person can get any hours at their job, that's why they have to work 3 jobs just to support themselves, let alone their family.

What do you expect out of Hillary Clinton's "official" website?
 

GoingUp

Lifer
Jul 31, 2002
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You really are a moron you know that? Did you even bother to read the Government report? I bet you didn't. Heres whats really being proposed.

The Department of Labor proposes to update and revise the regulations issued under the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) implementing the exemption from minimum wage and overtime pay for executive, administrative, professional, outside sales and computer employees. These exemptions are often referred to as the FLSA?s ??white collar?? exemptions. To be considered exempt, employees must meet certain minimum tests related to their primary job duties and be paid on a salary basis at not less than specified minimum amounts.

They are seeking to change the overtime regulations for people who are usually salaried and not hourly. They arent preventing factory workers and normal hourly people from getting overtime you moron. I suggest you read the report.
 

IGBT

Lifer
Jul 16, 2001
17,976
141
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And the Dem's signed nafta and the world trade agreement..that moved your presesnt and future jobs out of the country...so now where do we go???
 

DougK62

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2001
8,035
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Garbage article. Whoever accepts that as truth is a moron. Go straight to the source like Amused did.

You liberals are getting desperate
rolleye.gif
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
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Originally posted by: bthorny
The Bush administration claims its plan would give overtime protections to more workers by allowing anyone who earns $22,100 or less to automatically qualify for overtime pay. But many of those workers, such as fast-food employees, already are covered.

Maybe we should put the twelve year old's back in the sweatshops while we are at it.

You're still speaking from a position of complete ignorance. PLEASE read the entire bill before making any more assumptions or blindly bleating left wing propaganda.
 

RagingBITCH

Lifer
Sep 27, 2003
17,618
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(Idiot Democrats) Down with Bush! Bush sucks! (/Idiot Democrats)

BTW, the above is a summary of the Iowa Caucasus last night :p
 

gistech1978

Diamond Member
Aug 30, 2002
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i dont need "left-wing propaganda" to make up my mind.
my mind was made up in Janurary of 2000 to help vote bush out in 2004.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
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Originally posted by: DougK62
Garbage article. Whoever accepts that as truth is a moron. Go straight to the source like Amused did.

You liberals are getting desperate
rolleye.gif

Why don't you check to find out who can be reclassified?
 

Kerouactivist

Diamond Member
Jul 12, 2001
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Originally posted by: WinstonSmith
Originally posted by: DougK62
Garbage article. Whoever accepts that as truth is a moron. Go straight to the source like Amused did.

You liberals are getting desperate
rolleye.gif

Why don't you check to find out who can be reclassified?

They don't wanna talk about that I'm sure......
rolleye.gif
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
57,545
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Originally posted by: bthorny
Originally posted by: WinstonSmith
Originally posted by: DougK62
Garbage article. Whoever accepts that as truth is a moron. Go straight to the source like Amused did.

You liberals are getting desperate
rolleye.gif

Why don't you check to find out who can be reclassified?

They don't wanna talk about that I'm sure......
rolleye.gif

I already have. YOU don't want to read the actual bill for yourself. Instead you choose to bleat propaganda and blindly believe those with an obvious agenda instead of thinking for yourself.
 

Kerouactivist

Diamond Member
Jul 12, 2001
4,665
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Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: bthorny
Originally posted by: WinstonSmith
Originally posted by: DougK62
Garbage article. Whoever accepts that as truth is a moron. Go straight to the source like Amused did.

You liberals are getting desperate
rolleye.gif

Why don't you check to find out who can be reclassified?

They don't wanna talk about that I'm sure......
rolleye.gif

I already have. YOU don't want to read the actual bill for yourself. Instead you choose to bleat propaganda and blindly believe those with an obvious agenda instead of thinking for yourself.


Well I'll tell you one thing I didn't take someone elses opinion/(slanted research) and act like it was mine :)

Unless of coarse you just like posting the exact same thing on different sites


link
 
Jan 12, 2003
3,498
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Originally posted by: Amused


YOU don't want to read the actual bill for yourself. Instead you choose to bleat propaganda and blindly believe those with an obvious agenda instead of thinking for yourself.


...the problems with America in a nutshell; well-said, sir.


I've been wondering how many people who believe the Medicare Bill is "baaaaaad" have actually read the bill, as opposed to merely listening to Ted Kennedy playing cheerleader to a room of elderly while asserting that they are all doomed. The simple fact is this: the Republicans have strategically encroached on an issue area where Democrats have long been thought to hold the high ground...and they are mad as hell...but the NYT, LA Times, and Washington Post see things differently, I guess.
 

Ferocious

Diamond Member
Feb 16, 2000
4,584
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Bush is perhaps the most anti- American worker President in history.

He appears that he hates good wage earners.

I wonder how long till garage mechanics become salaried.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
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www.alienbabeltech.com
Senate Threatens the 40-Hour Workweek

In addition to the Bush administration?s attacks on overtime, and a major bill (H.R. 1119) in the U.S. House of Representatives that would replace time-and-a-half pay with comp time, Senate bill S. 317 also would threaten the 40-hour workweek. The bill would allow employers, under certain circumstances, to pay overtime only after an employee works 80 hours over a two-week work period. Workers who work 50 hours in one week, for example, would not receive any overtime pay if they worked no more than 30 hours the following week.

--------------------------------------
Yep, work two weeks for 80 Hours and get paid for 60. The New Great America at it's best.
 

chess9

Elite member
Apr 15, 2000
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One of my wife's friends is a paralegal who made $76K last year with a huge amount of O.T. These rules would appear to restrict her to her base salary of about $45K, while her employer could require her to work O.T. I can't imagine that would make her very happy and she's a Republican. Or, maybe she was. :)

On the other hand, I suspect a lot of employers will not be able to simply withdraw O.T. from some types of employees as a practical matter even though they would be within their legal rights.

Amused hasn't told us what the actual economic impact will be of this bill, and if it effectively raises wages for the poorest folks, why are the Republicans supporting it? I suspect, the bottom line is that it WON'T actually raise wages for very many people because many folks in low wage jobs only work 20-30 hours per week. If the Republicans were truly interested in helping the little guy earn more then they'd raise the minimum wage.

Has anyone seen a thorough line by line exegesis of this bill by someone without an ax to grind?

This bill appears to be political bulls++T and should be defeated...probably. :) But, I'll withhold final judgment until I see some real analysis, not someone's guess.

-Robert