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One adult American in five thinks the Sun revolves around the Earth

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Originally posted by: DrPizza
Incidentally, poor understanding of science has led to subsidies to corn and ethanol production, resulting in only a small gain in energy.
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Does that have as much to do with science as it does porkbarrelling and fear of change?
 
what about snipers?
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Sure they use science/math, whats your point?

The only solution that I see to solve "the problem" in this thread is mandatory IQ testing for reproduction rights. We wont see something like this for about 100 years or so, but it'll be an issue eventually somewhere on earth.
 
Originally posted by: TallBill
Originally posted by: Aharami
Originally posted by: TallBill
Who cares, science isn't extremely relevant to most Adults. I do know about the stuff they are talking about, but it hasn't really helped me out any during my life.
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wow. i mean...just wow! are you serious? just because you think it's not useful in day to day life (thats horseshit. science is very useful in day to day life) means that most people need not bother learning it? whatever happened to furthering the mind?

as i understand, you're a soldier in the US army, correct? Are you telling me there is no science involved in you hitting a target far away while compensating for wind or gravity?
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I never said not to teach it. But you can't make people care. And there is math related to putting a round on target, but I'm not Field Artillery. Even then, they just punch numbers in. The formula is to complex to do quickly and accurately.

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Tallbill's attitude is a very common one. People's natural defense to being called out on their knowledge is to pretend that the knowledge is immaterial anyway. I've met plenty of people like this. They are perfectly well suited to building me a big mac, building my house, working as teller at a bank, fixing a car, etc. but lacking a worldlier degree of knowledge they cannot see issues (even ones that may appear at the outset to be very simple) in the same light a more learned person can. The ignorant views shape many intangible things in their lives and also how they interact with those around them and how they contribute to the direction of the country.
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I haven't been called out on knowledge. Like stated before I do know all of the concepts that the poll covered. If I didn't then your assumption would be correct. I get what you're saying though. But once again, you can't make someone care.

Private companies and Universities are where most of the knowledge is at anyways. I'd like a few more programs with the Federal Government not involved. Science isn't going to stop and will rarely even face a speed bump because the average person can't even spell Particle Accelerator.
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I personally am excited at the prospects of the private sector spearheading scientific research. I'm however not excited by the rights given corporations and the lack of true oversight. You would expect that the government has general principles and guidelines insofar as protecting and serving its populace. The corporation however has none. They are in fact legally obligated to maximize profits and nothing else. Doesn't it seem dangerous to you to have the majority of the world's knowledge (technology, research and patents) controlled by corporations with no public interest?

If people were more aware of science then maybe they'd be more likely to support government spending on scientific programs. Of course bureaucracy is inefficient in comparison to the private sector, but they are held to a higher standard of transparency and service to their constituency. That's why we need both... no communism, no unchecked free market. Private sector to encourage forward progress and public sector to ensure basic protections and services.

 
Originally posted by: Martin
Originally posted by: TallBill
Who cares, science isn't extremely relevant to most Adults. I do know about the stuff they are talking about, but it hasn't really helped me out any during my life.
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And what happens when these illiterate people start to have an opinion on scientific matters?
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They come up with the man-made global warming theory 😛
 
I agree with TallBill - who the fvck cares? Like that show "Are You Smarter than a 5th Grader" - it's all crap that you'll never use as an adult anyway. I personally know that the planets revolve around the Sun, but I'm sure there are other scientific facts that I'm completely oblivious to that I won't ever care about or have to use.
 
Originally posted by: KeithP
How does it compare to similar studies in other countries?
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The purpose of studies like this is to try to drum up public support for increased spending on education. It is the academic equivalent of a guy standing by a freeway on/off ramp begging for money. They don't really care how we compare to other countries unless they can bend the data in such a way as to make our education system seem under funded.

-KeithP
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Bingo. And fear, as the great motivator, sells. So the worst pessimistic illogic is used to justify their study and their funding. Note that the topic title is not 4 adult Americans in five know that the earth revolves around the sun. That's all you need to know that this whole thing is propaganda. Really good propaganda at that, as obviously none of the posters here is among that 20%, so we can feel both superior to and yet afraid of that ignorant unwashed barbarian horde both and at the same time, as we discuss what to do with them as though they were not humans, but animals. Ah, it's good stuff. If there was a study that said that 99% of adult Americans don't understand the psychological power of combining statistical manipulation with media sensationalism and pseudoscience with political agenda, I'm sure it wouldn't sell as well.
 
Originally posted by: m1ldslide1

I personally am excited at the prospects of the private sector spearheading scientific research. I'm however not excited by the rights given corporations and the lack of true oversight. You would expect that the government has general principles and guidelines insofar as protecting and serving its populace. The corporation however has none. They are in fact legally obligated to maximize profits and nothing else. Doesn't it seem dangerous to you to have the majority of the world's knowledge (technology, research and patents) controlled by corporations with no public interest?

If people were more aware of science then maybe they'd be more likely to support government spending on scientific programs. Of course bureaucracy is inefficient in comparison to the private sector, but they are held to a higher standard of transparency and service to their constituency. That's why we need both... no communism, no unchecked free market. Private sector to encourage forward progress and public sector to ensure basic protections and services.
Click to expand...

Whats your opinion on University research then? It seems to me that these programs raise money through alumni donations and tuition fees. I'm not really sure, so I am willing to listen. You do bring up some valid points.
 
Originally posted by: IGBT
..and no doubt they all believe in the eco-thiest global warming propaganda as well.
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Since we're getting way off track now...

You're referring to the propaganda that the vast majority of the scientific population of the world is touting? What a bunch of hacks. If only they'd give up their eco-theism for mono-theism they'd realize that science is wrong and the energy corporations are right.
 
Originally posted by: m1ldslide1
Originally posted by: IGBT
..and no doubt they all believe in the eco-thiest global warming propaganda as well.
Click to expand...

Since we're getting way off track now...

You're referring to the propaganda that the vast majority of the scientific population of the world is touting? What a bunch of hacks. If only they'd give up their eco-theism for mono-theism they'd realize that science is wrong and the energy corporations are right.
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..have another glass of koolaid.

 
Originally posted by: TallBill
Originally posted by: m1ldslide1

I personally am excited at the prospects of the private sector spearheading scientific research. I'm however not excited by the rights given corporations and the lack of true oversight. You would expect that the government has general principles and guidelines insofar as protecting and serving its populace. The corporation however has none. They are in fact legally obligated to maximize profits and nothing else. Doesn't it seem dangerous to you to have the majority of the world's knowledge (technology, research and patents) controlled by corporations with no public interest?

If people were more aware of science then maybe they'd be more likely to support government spending on scientific programs. Of course bureaucracy is inefficient in comparison to the private sector, but they are held to a higher standard of transparency and service to their constituency. That's why we need both... no communism, no unchecked free market. Private sector to encourage forward progress and public sector to ensure basic protections and services.
Click to expand...

Whats your opinion on University research then? It seems to me that these programs raise money through alumni donations and tuition fees. I'm not really sure, so I am willing to listen. You do bring up some valid points.
Click to expand...

I think that University research is great, but I don't really view it as independent from the government/private sector. I think that's where they gain the majority of their funding from. They do gain some funding from the alumni and tuition, but I think that most of that cash flow is accounted for by the other functions of the university (sports and overhead).

There are some key pieces of information I'd need to collect before having a full opinion on that. I guess primarily, if a corporation is providing funding for university research, then who owns the patents for discoveries?

I know that many private hospitals are also considered Universities and research centers. They receive massive amounts of government and private funding.
 
Originally posted by: BDawg
Originally posted by: JImmyK
Im sure the number that cant locate iraq and afghanistan on a map is higher...
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The number who can't locate Canada or Mexico on a map is pretty high too.
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"Oh come on Lisa, anyone can miss Canada, all tucked away down there!"
- Homer Simpson

ZV
 
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: KeithP
How does it compare to similar studies in other countries?
Click to expand...

The purpose of studies like this is to try to drum up public support for increased spending on education. It is the academic equivalent of a guy standing by a freeway on/off ramp begging for money. They don't really care how we compare to other countries unless they can bend the data in such a way as to make our education system seem under funded.

-KeithP
Click to expand...

Bingo. And fear, as the great motivator, sells. So the worst pessimistic illogic is used to justify their study and their funding. Note that the topic title is not 4 adult Americans in five know that the earth revolves around the sun. That's all you need to know that this whole thing is propaganda. Really good propaganda at that, as obviously none of the posters here is among that 20%, so we can feel both superior to and yet afraid of that ignorant unwashed barbarian horde both and at the same time, as we discuss what to do with them as though they were not humans, but animals. Ah, it's good stuff. If there was a study that said that 99% of adult Americans don't understand the psychological power of combining statistical manipulation with media sensationalism and pseudoscience with political agenda, I'm sure it wouldn't sell as well.
Click to expand...

Ah yes, good old populist demagoguery. The ivory tower elitists are trying to subvert the volk with their "knowledge" and "edumacation" - after all reality has a well known liberal bias! The volk need not worry their little heads - they just have to put out babies, buy goods and cheer for their local team.

With attitudes like yours, is it any wonder that the US is one of least socially mobile developed countries?
http://cep.lse.ac.uk/about/new...nerationalMobility.pdf
 
I actually take these kind of studies with a grain of salt. I don't want to sound elitist, but I live in a fairly well-to-do suburb of Los Angeles, and I have not met one adult who could possibly think this. I think most of these people reside in Mississippi or the rest of the deep South, where even literacy rates are low.
 
"1/5 thinks the sun revolves around the earth"

whats so troubling about that??
4/5 believes theres a god! now thats scarier, wouldnt u say??? 🙂
 
Originally posted by: BigJelly
Originally posted by: Martin
Originally posted by: TallBill
Who cares, science isn't extremely relevant to most Adults. I do know about the stuff they are talking about, but it hasn't really helped me out any during my life.
Click to expand...

And what happens when these illiterate people start to have an opinion on scientific matters?
Click to expand...

They come up with the man-made global warming theory 😛
Click to expand...

:laugh::thumbsup:
 
Originally posted by: TallBill
Originally posted by: m1ldslide1

I personally am excited at the prospects of the private sector spearheading scientific research. I'm however not excited by the rights given corporations and the lack of true oversight. You would expect that the government has general principles and guidelines insofar as protecting and serving its populace. The corporation however has none. They are in fact legally obligated to maximize profits and nothing else. Doesn't it seem dangerous to you to have the majority of the world's knowledge (technology, research and patents) controlled by corporations with no public interest?

If people were more aware of science then maybe they'd be more likely to support government spending on scientific programs. Of course bureaucracy is inefficient in comparison to the private sector, but they are held to a higher standard of transparency and service to their constituency. That's why we need both... no communism, no unchecked free market. Private sector to encourage forward progress and public sector to ensure basic protections and services.
Click to expand...

Whats your opinion on University research then? It seems to me that these programs raise money through alumni donations and tuition fees. I'm not really sure, so I am willing to listen. You do bring up some valid points.
Click to expand...

Alumni donations go to building new libraries. Tuition goes to costs of education. Research grants come from the government.

I'm wary of the private sector. I've heard too many stories of private companies trying to buy up unpublished papers to keep them private, patent the idea, and use the increase in their IP portfolio to attract more investors. Scientific information shouldn't be owned or patented. Processes, sure. Commercial products, sure. But I'd hate to write a paper referencing the Microsoft (circle R thing) effect (TM).
 
Bother me, yes.
Surprise me, not in the least.

People in general are so hung up on thier "feelings" that they really don't trust science. Even people with a "scientific" mindset end up with conclusions like "odd numbers sound better".
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/kharma/sub.html

And if you DO try to prove people wrong, they'll just stop listening. Look at all the "Free energy" scams there are out there. One simple law of nature can dispell pretty much all of them. Yet people fall for them every day.
 
Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth
Bother me, yes.
Surprise me, not in the least.

People in general are so hung up on thier "feelings" that they really don't trust science. Even people with a "scientific" mindset end up with conclusions like "odd numbers sound better".
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/kharma/sub.html

And if you DO try to prove people wrong, they'll just stop listening. Look at all the "Free energy" scams there are out there. One simple law of nature can dispell pretty much all of them. Yet people fall for them every day.
Click to expand...

Most people, in my experience, are fairly open to acquiring new knowledge, assuming you approach them in a non-threatening, non-condescending way.
 
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