Oncogenes used in GE food.

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This may be not the latest news, but it is political and something people should know.

An oncogene is a gene that, when mutated or expressed at high levels, helps turn a normal cell into a tumor cell. Many abnormal cells normally undergo a programmed form of death (apoptosis). Activated oncogenes can cause those cells to survive and proliferate instead.[2] Most oncogenes require an additional step, such as mutations in another gene, or environmental factors, such as viral infection, to cause cancer. Since the 1970s, dozens of oncogenes have been identified in human cancer. Many cancer drugs target those DNA sequences and their products
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oncogene

This is one of the many techniques used in GE food to express genes added to the crops or plants.

In this documentary a lot of the concerns of genetic engineering are addressed by Deborah Koons Garcia. She made a documentary about the background of genetic engineered .

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8098965482866581381#

The specific plant mentioned is the GE cauliflower.
It uses part of the genes of the mosaic virus to express the GE genes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cauliflower_mosaic_virus

Another thing important is that almost all GE plants are not more nutritious.
But do carry pesticide inside them added by genetic engineering.
 
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PokerGuy

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Jul 2, 2005
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Until there have been long term studies into this stuff and the science behind it matures to the point where we know what's going on, genetically engineered food needs to be banned.

Right now, we (science collectively) are much like a kid who got a chemistry set. We can see things happening and we understand some of the basics, but we don't have a clear understanding of what is really driving the changes and how it might interact with other things.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
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Until there have been long term studies into this stuff and the science behind it matures to the point where we know what's going on, genetically engineered food needs to be banned.

Right now, we (science collectively) are much like a kid who got a chemistry set. We can see things happening and we understand some of the basics, but we don't have a clear understanding of what is really driving the changes and how it might interact with other things.

Not sure about an outright Ban, but certainly there are GE changes that need to be thoroughly Researched before release.
 
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Not sure about an outright Ban, but certainly there are GE changes that need to be thoroughly Researched before release.

That would mean not allowed on the market until proven save. However, the patent law does not allow an infinite timespan for patents. As such, companies want to make as much money as possible before the patent expires. This is an flaw that causes companies to make choices that are not beneficial to customers. As buying politicians and forcing people to pay up for material they have not bought.

Once again, people in the US and the EU (and i am sure all other countries as well)want GM food labeled. But the companies (Monsanto being the biggest player) deny this because GM tech is seen as the US technology of the 21 century.
For example in the US a lot of by the government subsidized ethanol research is being performed by monsanto. But Farmers are subsidized by the government to pay for seeds, these are genetically engineered bt corn seeds. How about round up ? They always say it is save. But the soil composition changes slowly with time. Mutated versions of bacteria, fungi, and phages arise in the soil. Why does this company receive grants for ethanol research ? Even though ethanol production from corn(seeds to end result) is such energy intensive it is totally not worth it.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
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That would mean not allowed on the market until proven save. However, the patent law does not allow an infinite timespan for patents. As such, companies want to make as much money as possible before the patent expires. This is an flaw that causes companies to make choices that are not beneficial to customers. As buying politicians and forcing people to pay up for material they have not bought.

Once again, people in the US and the EU (and i am sure all other countries as well)want GM food labeled. But the companies (Monsanto being the biggest player) deny this because GM tech is seen as the US technology of the 21 century.
For example in the US a lot of by the government subsidized ethanol research is being performed by monsanto. But Farmers are subsidized by the government to pay for seeds, these are genetically engineered bt corn seeds. How about round up ? They always say it is save. But the soil composition changes slowly with time. Mutated versions of bacteria, fungi, and phages arise in the soil. Why does this company receive grants for ethanol research ? Even though ethanol production from corn(seeds to end result) is such energy intensive it is totally not worth it.

Patent laws are a whole other atrocity concerning this subject. Especially when people are being Sued for Patent Infringement when they have done nothing but be located next to a GM Crop that couldn't keep its' pollen to itself. In that situation, the Farmer should be compensated by the Corp, not the other way around.
 

MotF Bane

No Lifer
Dec 22, 2006
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Patent laws are a whole other atrocity concerning this subject. Especially when people are being Sued for Patent Infringement when they have done nothing but be located next to a GM Crop that couldn't keep its' pollen to itself. In that situation, the Farmer should be compensated by the Corp, not the other way around.

That sounds familiar, and I'm shockingly in agreement with you on it.
 
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Until there have been long term studies into this stuff and the science behind it matures to the point where we know what's going on, genetically engineered food needs to be banned.

Right now, we (science collectively) are much like a kid who got a chemistry set. We can see things happening and we understand some of the basics, but we don't have a clear understanding of what is really driving the changes and how it might interact with other things.

I agree. When we understand the interaction of biological systems on earth and accept it is all linked together ( not strange when using the same building blocks from a few common ancestors over and over again and again).
Only then we can make whatever we like. But i am really worried about the future.

It is not the digital revolution that is foreseen as the problem, it was actually a blessing. It is the Genetic engineering revolution that will be the problem. That and the repetition of history : Ignorance, greed and technology, the downfall... Some have opened up pandora's pithos in their greed and ignorance, letting out the negative side of creating life in the evolutionary style. People and their worshipping...
 
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Patent laws are a whole other atrocity concerning this subject. Especially when people are being Sued for Patent Infringement when they have done nothing but be located next to a GM Crop that couldn't keep its' pollen to itself. In that situation, the Farmer should be compensated by the Corp, not the other way around.

Welcome to the country where the court ruled that all building blocks of life is patentable. I do not know if this law only holds in the US, i do think so but i am not sure.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
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Welcome to the country where the court ruled that all building blocks of life is patentable. I do not know if this law only holds in the US, i do think so but i am not sure.

A case happened here in Canada. Farmer received letter from Monsanto demanding Payment for Patent Infringement. Farmer took it to Court and the Judge ruled that he had to Pay. So it would seem that Canada also allows such Patents.
 
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A case happened here in Canada. Farmer received letter from Monsanto demanding Payment for Patent Infringement. Farmer took it to Court and the Judge ruled that he had to Pay. So it would seem that Canada also allows such Patents.

I think no gene should be patentable, only a precise description of the artficial techniques used to modify a gene should be patentable. To create proteins artificially for example is patentable. But not the proteins themselves. That is how it should be.
 

Schadenfroh

Elite Member
Mar 8, 2003
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Forgive my rustiness, it has been a few years since my college genetics classes from way back before I switched from biology to CS.

Another thing important is that almost all GE plants are not more nutritious.
The main goals are usually to reduce the need for synthetic pesticides, herbicides, etc. and increased crop yields.

It uses part of the genes of the mosaic virus to express the GE genes.
Yeh, modified viruses are handy ways to insert and express genes. Viruses are usually very organism specific, you are not going to catch a plant virus. As a matter of fact, I believe using modified viruses is the most practical ways of creating new GMOs.

But do carry pesticide inside them added by genetic engineering.
You likely ingest traces of synthetic pesticides daily, we have to apply them in bulk to unmodified crops. The pesticides expressed by GMOs come from the genes of other organisms. I suppose one could say it is "organic pesticide." Again, if done correctly, it can be perfectly safe. What is harmful to a pest or fungus might not be harmful to you and the amount that you ingest after the food has been processed is likely not harmful at that level.

Farmer received letter from Monsanto demanding Payment for Patent Infringement.
I will admit, Monsanto is one of the most evil companies on the planet. However, they are a necessary evil and many great innovations have been made by them. They are introducing terminator genes to ensure that certain GMOs do not spread unintentionally, which has the "side-effect" of the farmer having to purchase seeds from Monsanto every year.

Until there have been long term studies into this stuff and the science behind it matures to the point where we know what's going on, genetically engineered food needs to be banned.
GMOs, like all types of organisms that end up being sold as food in the US, are regulated and studies are done to ensure safety prior to them entering the food supply. You have been eating GMOs for a long time.

GE food is the next agricultural revolution. Many countries use irrational fear of safe GMOs to fan protectionist fever in their population. The US has a massive edge in this field and it has the possibility to not only reduce our reliance on synthetic chemicals and reduction of disease, but also make crop yields so high that food will become even cheaper and fewer people in the world will have to go hungry. In effect, we might finally be able to solve world hunger (if we have the will to do so), which with an exploding world population, will become more important as we must make the most of the agricultural land available to us.

Organic foods have caused far more health problems than GMOs, not to mention "locally grown produce" is inefficient if grown outside of optimal climates.
For example:
http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4019
According to the Center for Global Food Issues, organic foods make up about 1% of all the food sold in the United States, but it accounts for 8% of E. coli cases.
 
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Forgive my rustiness, it has been a few years since my college genetics classes from way back before I switched from biology to CS.


The main goals are usually to reduce the need for synthetic pesticides, herbicides, etc. and increased crop yields.
I am all for that. But the problem i am concerned with is that the customer also eats these incorporated pesticides. Just because something has a biological nature, does not mean it is automatically healthy. What does a large amount of daily ingested natural pesticide do to humans ? Nicotine for example is a natural pesticide present in a plant. It is deadly in large quantities. I am not writing that this by monsanto used incorporated pesticide (insecticide) is automatically a problem either. What i am writing is that i doubt that long term trials have been done with extensive research what happens to the person eating GM foods. Nobody seems to know or care. And i want to know.

Yeh, modified viruses are handy ways to insert and express genes. Viruses are usually very organism specific, you are not going to catch a plant virus. As a matter of fact, I believe using modified viruses is the most practical ways of creating new GMOs.
True. But i assume normally these specific virus parts like for example reverse transcriptase are denatured as what i have learned it is called.
What i am worried about is that it is pretty obvious now that any virus can jump species when it infects a cell together with other viruses. Then the chance will significantly rise that a new version arises that is able to make the jump to species when the situation presents itself. This situation is created when you consume gm food with virus particles in them and carry a lot of other viruses just from daily life. Add a few contaminated vaccines...

You likely ingest traces of synthetic pesticides daily, we have to apply them in bulk to unmodified crops. The pesticides expressed by GMOs come from the genes of other organisms. I suppose one could say it is "organic pesticide." Again, if done correctly, it can be perfectly safe. What is harmful to a pest or fungus might not be harmful to you and the amount that you ingest after the food has been processed is likely not harmful at that level.
Well, you forget that if used properly, external pesticides should only be present on the skin. I know that large amounts of pesticides can cause an effect that the inner part of the fruit or vegetable is saturated as well with pesticides. As is the case with GM food.
I know this because every time i buy oranges or mandarins and they taste chemically, i throw these away and check the labels from which country they come. Every time in the past i ate a lot of these chemically tasting oranges and mandarins usually from Spain or Greece i would more vulnerable to common colds and other typical infections. After i stopped doing that my immune system and healing returned to higher performance although not as good as it should be(but that's just me). I did some research and did find that some pesticides are capable of slowing down the immune system in some way never really fully explained. I am not writing this is the case with GM food. But i sure think we should first see if large amount of a foreign natural pesticide is dangerous to the human body.

I will admit, Monsanto is one of the most evil companies on the planet. However, they are a necessary evil and many great innovations have been made by them. They are introducing terminator genes to ensure that certain GMOs do not spread unintentionally, which has the "side-effect" of the farmer having to purchase seeds from Monsanto every year.
I do not think monsanto is evil. I do think they are greedy and ignorant people blinded by money. Every of those terminator techniques will fail because all you people forget ever ytime that life is dynamic and is not sequential. A lot is happening at the same time. Everything gets infected by viruses and sometimes viruses share all dna with bacteria, with other cells. It takes time but those gm genes will spread. It is not just pollinating. It is a lot more complex and parallel in action.

GMOs, like all types of organisms that end up being sold as food in the US, are regulated and studies are done to ensure safety prior to them entering the food supply. You have been eating GMOs for a long time.
I doubt it that i have been eating gm food for a long time. I am sure i consumed some. Although i must confess that the meat i eat comes from animals fed with GM food. As such i do eat GM food indirectly. And the only reason why these animals are getting fed GM food is because the US backed cry out from monsanto at the WTO that it was not allowed to sell it's GM food on the EU market. And that monsanto did not want to see any labels used which identify GM food.

GE food is the next agricultural revolution. Many countries use irrational fear of safe GMOs to fan protectionist fever in their population. The US has a massive edge in this field and it has the possibility to not only reduce our reliance on synthetic chemicals and reduction of disease, but also make crop yields so high that food will become even cheaper and fewer people in the world will have to go hungry. In effect, we might finally be able to solve world hunger (if we have the will to do so), which with an exploding world population, will become more important as we must make the most of the agricultural land available to us.

There is no world hunger because of a lack of food. There is world hunger because of political and economical reasons. That is a big difference. Besides, i see a lot of over weight or obese or FAT people who eat to much. The father of a friend of mine always sad : All fat people are doing it to themselves. In Auschwitz there where no fat people. With the exception of people with a thyroid problem afcourse. But even people with a thyroid problem where skinny or dead in Auschwitz. Even in locations on the planet where a famine is happening, a few hunderd miles further there are people with to much food, but not helping... Now how can that be...
 
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In this documentary it can be seen that the bt cotton does not have any benefits to the farmer. In India, the bt cotton does not live op to it's promises which is using less pesticides. The Indian farmers use the same amount or more pesticides for bt cotton but it just does not make any difference. The amount of retrieved cotton is less, while the bt seeds are more expensive then the local seeds. Which cannot be bought anymore, since the local seed companies that deliver unmodified seeds are bought up by monseanto daughter companies and only deliver bt cotton seeds.
Monsanto already has to admit that the bollworm in India loves bt cotton and destroyes entire cotton plants. While monsanto promised in the past that the bt cotton would keep the bollworm away.

A news article from India :
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...n-4-Gujarat-districts/articleshow/5648716.cms

Monsanto's Bt cotton fails to control pests in 4 Gujarat districts
TNN, Mar 6, 2010, 03.11am IST


NEW DELHI: In what is bound to strengthen environment minister Jairam Ramesh's stand that GM crop technology should be handled with precaution, Monsanto on Friday admitted that its Bt cotton variety had failed to control pests in four districts of Gujarat.

Monsanto said that during field monitoring in 2009, the Bt cotton variety used in four Gujarat districts -- Amreli, Bhavnagar, Junagarh and Rajkot -- was found to attract the pink bollworm, a major pest that attacks cotton plantations.

Bt cotton carrying the Cry1Ac gene is sold as a solution to the bollworm pest but Monsanto's admission that the insect had been become resistant to the anti-pest protein could come as a shot in the arm for green activists. Several environmental and public health organisations have for years been claiming that adequate tests have not been carried out in India on the GM crops to test for long-term resistance to pests as well as impacts on public health.

The controversy had reached a high pitch recently when Ramesh imposed a temporary moratorium on commercial cultivation of Monsanto and Mayhco's Bt brinjal -- the first GM food crop that would have been introduced in the country. Ramesh had demanded further tests that could last up to 1-2 years to check for long-term impacts on environment as well as public health before introducing the GM crop in India.

Three of his Cabinet colleagues -- Prithviraj Chavan, Kapil Sibal and Sharad Pawar -- had come out publicly against the decision only to reconcile to Ramesh's step after a meeting with PM Manmohan Singh.

Monsanto said it had informed the Genetic Engineering Appraisal Committee -- the agency under the environment ministry that clears GM crops for cultivation and monitors its impact -- about pests attacking Bt cotton in the four Gujarat districts.

Trying to allay fears of the pest attack being widespread, the company said, "Single-protein Cry1Ac products continue to control bollworm pests other than pink bollworm in the four districts in Gujarat where pink bollworm resistance has been confirmed."

Documentary :

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8098965482866581381#docid=-4499930634181592531
 
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I did some reading on Bt or Bacillus thuringiensis.

It seems Bacillus anthracis and Bacillus thuringiensis are relatives.
The only difference here is that they have different plasmids. Plasmids are separate from the bacteria chromosomal DNA

Only Bacillus thuringiensis or bt for short produces the cry toxins.
And Bacillus anthracis produces anthrax spores.

Bacillus cereus is also a relative where only the plasmids differ. Bacillus cereus can be the cause of food poison. Or just uncomfortable effects as vomiting nausea and diarrhea maybe even sleep disorders accompanying.


It fears me that when these plants are modified to carry the bt gene(which may come from that plasmid) and spread all over the world, one day a seed will appear that maybe carrying something more lethal. Because of constant evolution. Everyday multiple viruses and bacteria and cells exchange dna. When all the plants we eat carry the bt gene the probability gets a lot bigger a crossing will occur. And after that an exchange of dna. Horizontal gene transfers cannot be controlled in the wild. Only in a sterile environment.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasmid
Plasmids are considered transferable genetic elements, or "replicons", capable of autonomous replication within a suitable host. Plasmids can be found in all three major domains, Archea, Bacteria and Eukarya.[1] Similar to viruses, plasmids are not considered a form of "life" as it is currently defined.[6] Unlike viruses, plasmids are "naked" DNA and do not encode genes necessary to encase the genetic material for transfer to a new host, though some classes of plasmids encode the sex pilus necessary for their own transfer. Plasmid host-to-host transfer requires direct, mechanical transfer by conjugation or changes in host gene expression allowing the intentional uptake of the genetic element by transformation.[1] Microbial transformation with plasmid DNA is neither parasitic nor symbiotic in nature, since each implies the presence of an independent species living in a commensal or detrimental state with the host organism. Rather, plasmids provide a mechanism for horizontal gene transfer within a population of microbes and typically provide a selective advantage under a given environmental state. Plasmids may carry genes that provide resistance to naturally occurring antibiotics in a competitive environmental niche, or alternatively the proteins produced may act as toxins under similar circumstances. Plasmids also can provide bacteria with an ability to fix elemental nitrogen or to degrade recalcitrant organic compounds which provide an advantage under conditions of nutrient deprivation.

Another documentary :

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8098965482866581381#docid=-7727700015953778314
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,889
6,784
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Everybody knows that human genes in pork are going to make it taste better.

One day your corn flakes will put WIKI.GOV directly into memory but first they will make you a happy citizen.
 
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Everybody knows that human genes in pork are going to make it taste better.

One day your corn flakes will put WIKI.GOV directly into memory but first they will make you a happy citizen.

If it was only that simple... ^_^

Starlink bt corn and food allergies ?
Starlink bt corn not meant for human consumption is eaten by humans ?
It is old news but still very active...
The Aventis bt corn accident, it happened in 1998 en in 2000 the bt was found in corn to be used for human food.
 
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Cogman

Lifer
Sep 19, 2000
10,286
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Until there have been long term studies into this stuff and the science behind it matures to the point where we know what's going on, genetically engineered food needs to be banned.

Right now, we (science collectively) are much like a kid who got a chemistry set. We can see things happening and we understand some of the basics, but we don't have a clear understanding of what is really driving the changes and how it might interact with other things.

Ummm.. Maybe in the 1950s that was true, but certainly not today. All the way up to the quantum level, we have a pretty dang good idea of what is going on with things. I'm not saying that we know it all (we never will) but that we know enough to keep from royally screwing ourselves.

Bring on the synthetic I say. The world has a mostly unjustified fear in all things science related that humanity really needs to overcome. (Hollywood doesn't help any with its unrealistic portrayals of sciences gone bad.)
 
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Ummm.. Maybe in the 1950s that was true, but certainly not today. All the way up to the quantum level, we have a pretty dang good idea of what is going on with things. I'm not saying that we know it all (we never will) but that we know enough to keep from royally screwing ourselves.

Bring on the synthetic I say. The world has a mostly unjustified fear in all things science related that humanity really needs to overcome. (Hollywood doesn't help any with its unrealistic portrayals of sciences gone bad.)

Well, that is the problem we do not know. Every technological enhancement so far that can also be very lethal has been an accidental discovery. Every improvement of such a discovery takes decades because of repetitive steps of trial and error, trial and error. Repeating until it works. That means there is no correct model or correct rules that can be used to accurately design. We have still no fusion reaction not because of a conspiracy of the oil companies(I am sure they invest in fusion because it would be more profitable then oil) but because the fundamental flaws in the current accepted models of QM.
The other option is that research just stops and another direction is chosen. The only exception where you are totally right is the digital revolution. Mathematics do no kill by nature, but sure make life a lot easier and enhance everyday life. Computers, are designed by humans. Programming languages are designed by humans. But these cannot get out of control. These techniques of advancement do not mingle with natural occurring life. Everything in the human production progress that is spitting out chemicals or pollution has turned out to be lethal. When you start messing with evolution, you must know what you are doing. I am all for genetic engineering, but not as it is done now.

For comparison, people act difficult when experimental hardware or experimental software has bugs. And yes this can be lethal when used to control a plane (airbus ?) or cars. But that is a whole lot different. Experimental software or hardware on it's own is not lethal it just lays on the table. Any contact with animals may be because the cat is interested.

A car with faulty software breaks does not multiply itself and does not exchange a wheelcap for a whirling knife.

It is old but i like to put it in as well :

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6262083407501596844&hl=en&emb=1#
 
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piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
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Contents should be required to say that the food item has been Genetically Modified. That way when you read the can/package it will mention it.
 
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Why are liberals so anti-science?
See below.

Contents should be required to say that the food item has been Genetically Modified. That way when you read the can/package it will mention it.

Exactly, let the customer decide as is it a system to track where the gm food came from originally in the case of a problem. But that is not allowed by the US companies as for example Monsanto.
They absolutely do not want it and have a lot of political power to ensure it is not going to happen. A company should not have political power. Freedom in the US ? If that means i can only call people what i want but i have no right to choose what to eat... I would sure start to think what freedom i really have.

But GM food is also not tested what it does in the long run. It seems the US has a lot more (auto immune)diseases then 30 years ago. I ask myself why...
I worry.
 
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I just had to add and ask this :
How many mad cow diseases have been mistaken in the US for Alzheimer disease or will expected to happen ?

Species barriers are a good thing. Species barriers are like natural scrubbing filters.
Look at what happened when people started feeding cows the remains of other cows ? Feeding calfs a slaughterblood/milk/antibiotic mixture instead of cow milk.
 
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A documentary about bt cotton in India.
It seems as expected that constant production of the bt pesticide by the cotton plant use up more energy. The bt cotton plants dry out faster then non bt cotton plants. And the bt cotton plants had to be sprayed as well with pesticides because not only one caterpillar species liked the cotton plants but many different species like the cotton plant as a food source as well.
What also is interesting is that first the american bollworm appeared in India on the cottonfields and after that monsanto with bt cotton bollgard came to the rescue. Why is a caterpillar in India called american bollworm ? However bt cotton bollgard is a total failure. The natural version produce more cotton and can stand harsher and hotter weather...
See for your self if you are interested :

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4499930634181592531#docid=-1091077791325423406
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
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All the way up to the quantum level, we have a pretty dang good idea of what is going on with things.

Really? My wife has a PhD in molecular genetics and if you suggested such a thing she'd bust out laughing. There is a hell of a lot we don't know where life is concerned. Think not? List all the things that are required (in detail) that are required for life (that would be all enzymes, metabolic pathways, what all genes do etc)

Start rattling them off, because if you can you'll win more Nobel's than anyone in history.
 

Schadenfroh

Elite Member
Mar 8, 2003
38,416
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Contents should be required to say that the food item has been Genetically Modified. That way when you read the can/package it will mention it.

That is as irrational as requiring cell phone manufacturers to label how much radiation is emitted despite the fact all of them are safe. It will only cause consumers to become more confused and have baseless fear of a product.