Oncogenes used in GE food.

[William Gaatjes]

Really? My wife has a PhD in molecular genetics and if you suggested such a thing she'd bust out laughing. There is a hell of a lot we don't know where life is concerned. Think not? List all the things that are required (in detail) that are required for life (that would be all enzymes, metabolic pathways, what all genes do etc)

Start rattling them off, because if you can you'll win more Nobel's than anyone in history.

A little science fiction secret because i like your avatar so much :
All you need to know is how atoms work when joined together. The electron distribution of the combined elements. When you know the behaviour of the elements, it is simply a look up table. Taking the data and predicting the shape formation can be done all in parallel as nature does it. But leave time out of it. Then you can self assemble anything you want. And since the amount of needed different elements is pretty limited and carbon is very stable and has some predictable advantages for self assembly... ^_^
Afcourse the devil is in the details :twisted:

 

[Cogman]

Really? My wife has a PhD in molecular genetics and if you suggested such a thing she'd bust out laughing. There is a hell of a lot we don't know where life is concerned. Think not? List all the things that are required (in detail) that are required for life (that would be all enzymes, metabolic pathways, what all genes do etc)

Start rattling them off, because if you can you'll win more Nobel's than anyone in history.

Can we list every chemical process that goes on in the human body and how it affects an ant on the other side of the planet? No, of course not. Can we list the effects of a specific chemical introduced or gene change in a biological system? Yes.

Before any GMO is introduced, very extensive studies are performed on it to make sure it is safe. We have the tools to study the effects of unique chemicals introduced.

I'll admit, we can't know with 100% certainty that something is safe to consume, we never will. So to put that as the requirement to have something that could reap some major benefits is ridiculous. Yet, that is what the anti-GMO people advocate.

 

[sandorski]

Can we list every chemical process that goes on in the human body and how it affects an ant on the other side of the planet? No, of course not. Can we list the effects of a specific chemical introduced or gene change in a biological system? Yes.

Before any GMO is introduced, very extensive studies are performed on it to make sure it is safe. We have the tools to study the effects of unique chemicals introduced.

I'll admit, we can't know with 100% certainty that something is safe to consume, we never will. So to put that as the requirement to have something that could reap some major benefits is ridiculous. Yet, that is what the anti-GMO people advocate.

It goes far beyond just those Consuming it though. Like the effects on the Environment.

 

[William Gaatjes]

Can we list every chemical process that goes on in the human body and how it affects an ant on the other side of the planet? No, of course not. Can we list the effects of a specific chemical introduced or gene change in a biological system? Yes.

Before any GMO is introduced, very extensive studies are performed on it to make sure it is safe. We have the tools to study the effects of unique chemicals introduced.

I'll admit, we can't know with 100% certainty that something is safe to consume, we never will. So to put that as the requirement to have something that could reap some major benefits is ridiculous. Yet, that is what the anti-GMO people advocate.

Those studies have not been done.
And the studies that have been done are studies with 1 variable. Create the protein and do a test in a culture. I am sorry but that is not enough.
But what happens when human cell culture, normal intestine bacteria , fungi and viruses are combined. There is a lesson to be learned from interbreeding and cannibalism. Life has prospered because of it's diversity.

 

[shira]

I think no gene should be patentable, only a precise description of the artficial techniques used to modify a gene should be patentable. To create proteins artificially for example is patentable. But not the proteins themselves. That is how it should be.

Both the method and the specific gene or protein should be patentable.

Consider a company that spends many millions of dollars developing a unique gene that encodes a protein that makes plants highly drought tolerant and very fast-growing. Further suppose that - once the structure of the gene is defined - the gene is extremely easy to synthesize by public-domain methods. According to you, the company is out of luck. Yet they've devised a product that will be of enormous benefit to mankind.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

This may be not the latest news, but it is political and something people should know.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oncogene

This is one of the many techniques used in GE food to express genes added to the crops or plants.

In this documentary a lot of the concerns of genetic engineering are addressed by Deborah Koons Garcia. She made a documentary about the background of genetic engineered .

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8098965482866581381#

The specific plant mentioned is the GE cauliflower.
It uses part of the genes of the mosaic virus to express the GE genes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cauliflower_mosaic_virus

Another thing important is that almost all GE plants are not more nutritious.
But do carry pesticide inside them added by genetic engineering.

People talk about it as natural evolutionary response but it's from entirly different species, there are genes from rabbits in some plants, that's not fucking normal and what IF that plant multipies, it's a fucking rabbitplant, there is no telling what can become of it.

THIS is way more playing god than anything else in science, we are actually creating new species and we don't have a fucking clue what will happen to parasites, viruses or bacterium that infects it..

One thing that you can expect by introducing genes from fish and mammals into vegetables is that they will perhaps be able to carry viruses normally only carried by animals...

Might suck to get AIDS from a gene that was an ooops in your salad...

 

[RabidMongoose]

That would mean not allowed on the market until proven save. However, the patent law does not allow an infinite timespan for patents. As such, companies want to make as much money as possible before the patent expires. This is an flaw that causes companies to make choices that are not beneficial to customers. As buying politicians and forcing people to pay up for material they have not bought.

Easy remedy - offer such patents patent term extensions like we already see with certain patents.

 

[sandorski]

Both the method and the specific gene or protein should be patentable.

Consider a company that spends many millions of dollars developing a unique gene that encodes a protein that makes plants highly drought tolerant and very fast-growing. Further suppose that - once the structure of the gene is defined - the gene is extremely easy to synthesize by public-domain methods. According to you, the company is out of luck. Yet they've devised a product that will be of enormous benefit to mankind.

Given the shenanigans going on, I'd rather GE be in the Public Domain. No Patents, all Research dedicated towards Public Good rather than Profit. There certainly needs to be an Ethical discussion about this issue and a more thought out Policy regarding Agriculture and the Environment.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Both the method and the specific gene or protein should be patentable.

Consider a company that spends many millions of dollars developing a unique gene that encodes a protein that makes plants highly drought tolerant and very fast-growing. Further suppose that - once the structure of the gene is defined - the gene is extremely easy to synthesize by public-domain methods. According to you, the company is out of luck. Yet they've devised a product that will be of enormous benefit to mankind.

I'm ok with that, i'm also ok with the ban on imports into the EU...

Products make you obese and stupid... that much is clear just looking at you.

 

[RabidMongoose]

But GM food is also not tested what it does in the long run. It seems the US has a lot more (auto immune)diseases then 30 years ago. I ask myself why...
I worry.

Yeah, man, it's probably because of GM food!

Some people are so anti-science!

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Can we list every chemical process that goes on in the human body and how it affects an ant on the other side of the planet? No, of course not. Can we list the effects of a specific chemical introduced or gene change in a biological system? Yes.

Before any GMO is introduced, very extensive studies are performed on it to make sure it is safe. We have the tools to study the effects of unique chemicals introduced.

I'll admit, we can't know with 100% certainty that something is safe to consume, we never will. So to put that as the requirement to have something that could reap some major benefits is ridiculous. Yet, that is what the anti-GMO people advocate.

I'm not fearful of antifreeze genes in tomatoes. I understand how these things work. My concern is that once you incorporate a gene which may give a plant a survival edge that then propagates by open pollination, there is an unknown risk of that trait being passed onto something in the wild. At that point the normal checks and balances on a population go out the window. If there are well constructed studies regarding this Ihave yet to see them. Remember kudzu?

 

[William Gaatjes]

Yeah, man, it's probably because of GM food!

Some people are so anti-science!

I am against : "we know how it works, we just have to try it a few thousand times to get it right. But we really have a thorough understanding, believe us" science.

I am also against : "F@ck everyone, as long as i can make money" science.

 

[RabidMongoose]

I am against : "we know how it works, we just have to try it a few thousand times to get it right. But we really have a thorough understanding, believe us" science.

I am also against : "F@ck everyone, as long as i can make money" science.

I think that you're ultimately against almost any scientific progress that you don't understand.

Your same statements could be said for almost anything...even for issues that you probably believe in, such as climate change.

Many people are anti-science and they're scared of it because they don't understand it. You seem to be the same, especially considering the bizarre comments that you've made in this thread.

 

[William Gaatjes]

That is as irrational as requiring cell phone manufacturers to label how much radiation is emitted despite the fact all of them are safe. It will only cause consumers to become more confused and have baseless fear of a product.

You do not consume cell phones do you ?

When it is food it should be labeled period. Why can we not have that choice ? Why because it is a new technology should we not be cautious ? Because you are afraid you are going to mis income ?

 

[RabidMongoose]

Given the shenanigans going on, I'd rather GE be in the Public Domain. No Patents, all Research dedicated towards Public Good rather than Profit. There certainly needs to be an Ethical discussion about this issue and a more thought out Policy regarding Agriculture and the Environment.

I don't know about a ban on patents of GE/GM products, but there needs to be something done to address some of the issues that you brought up. It could be addressed while keeping the patent system for GE products.

 

[Infohawk]

I am also against : "F@ck everyone, as long as i can make money" science.

What is that?

 

[RabidMongoose]

You do not consume cell phones do you ?

When it is food it should be labeled period.

Your body absorbs the radiation. Of course, that's another bizarre thing that anti-science folks cry about, too.

 

[William Gaatjes]

What is that?

rBGH growth hormone produced milk.

The sale of prion diseased meat in the US ?

 

[Infohawk]

rBGH growth hormone produced milk.

The sale of prion diseased meat in the US ?

I didn't think science has anything to do with production or sales. Those sound like business decisions.

 

[William Gaatjes]

Your body absorbs the radiation. Of course, that's another bizarre thing that anti-science folks cry about, too.

Well, only one problem is that anti science folk like you forget that it will not enter more then a 10th of a millimeter of skin or bone. And even then , it is harmless because of the power output of around 2 Watts and a radiation pattern in all directions.

Go stand for an 500 W output at Ghz range antenna with a narrow radiation beam in one direction. You will feel very crispy.

 

[William Gaatjes]

I didn't think science has anything to do with production or sales. Those sound like business decisions.

Then you get my drift what i think about certain forms of science...^_^
In those business science is used to create monsters.

 

[RabidMongoose]

Well, only one problem is that anti science folk like you forget that it will not enter more then a 10th of a millimeter of skin or bone. And even then , it is harmless because of the power output of around 2 Watts and a radiation pattern in all directions.

Go stand for an 500 W output at Ghz range antenna with a narrow radiation beam in one direction. You will feel very crispy.

Well, you and I say it is harmless, but the fact is that anti-science people use your same-anti science logic to come to their anti-science conclusion.

 

[Taejin]

do I have to watch a 30 minute video to be able to comment?

with my personal education (double major in biochem and biochem engineering) the inclusion of an oncogene (which is just a fancy name for a gene involved in some fashion with proliferation or suppression of cancer, and may have other effects other than simply cancer) in vegetables is not a big deal.

Big fucking deal. So what? Are people afraid that a cancer gene in vegetables will give people cancer? You don't need to worry about that, esp if you had a clue..

Anyways, not going to watch the video, unless someone can vouch that the video features someone who is in a position of authority to speak (Deborah Koons Garcia seems to be a FILMMAKER not a scientist so fuck that)

more FUD as far as I can see.. people without a clue just making noises through their blowholes again.

 

[spidey07]

Both the method and the specific gene or protein should be patentable.

Consider a company that spends many millions of dollars developing a unique gene that encodes a protein that makes plants highly drought tolerant and very fast-growing. Further suppose that - once the structure of the gene is defined - the gene is extremely easy to synthesize by public-domain methods. According to you, the company is out of luck. Yet they've devised a product that will be of enormous benefit to mankind.

Wow. I think that is the first post of yours agree with. Welcome fellow Capitalist.

And on the whole genetically engineered food thing we've been doing it for 1000s of years via selective breeding.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

This may be not the latest news, but it is political and something people should know.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oncogene

This is one of the many techniques used in GE food to express genes added to the crops or plants.

In this documentary a lot of the concerns of genetic engineering are addressed by Deborah Koons Garcia. She made a documentary about the background of genetic engineered .

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8098965482866581381#

The specific plant mentioned is the GE cauliflower.
It uses part of the genes of the mosaic virus to express the GE genes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cauliflower_mosaic_virus

Another thing important is that almost all GE plants are not more nutritious.
But do carry pesticide inside them added by genetic engineering.

I'm of the opinion that since most of these things cannot happen in a laboratory environment anyway, how abut we DON'T fuck with nature.

Everytime we have nature has kicked our collective arses, do we learn? No we don't, we are retarded because it's more important to make a buck than it is to ensure survival of our species.

THIS isn't evolutionary science, evolution is nature bringing forward mutations, this is introducing genes from mammals and animals into plants, from viruses into plants and from bacteria into plants, this is what it IS about, this isn't evolution at all, this is genetic engineering.

People who think this is speeding up evolution should be forced to mate with an elephant up the arse and out of them two cells should be taken, fused into a potato plant and that would be the same kind of evolution going on in monsantos labs.