Once again, President Bush misspoke on a weapons issue

[glenn1]

I don't think this particular reference is a big deal comapre to "WMD" and "No WMD".

Agreed. Saying 50 instead of 25, that I can see as a misstatement, and I'm not going to particularly sweat it. That's a long way off from saying "Iraq has WMD and we know where they are" up to the point of giving specific quantity figures (how many liters of anthrax was it again?) and not finding bumpkus, diddly, or squat.

 

[nutxo]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Those planes would never make it to the U.S. without refueling. That is, assuming you could get them rehabbed and working after all that sand was removed from the engines and other critical systems.

Forunately these planes have never attacked us aircraft before. Or have they?


Read around.

 

[nutxo]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: etech

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: nutxo

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: nutxo

Originally posted by: conjur
I think his bigger mistake was implying that the mustard gas was found in Iraq.

I don't recall his speech mentioning they were found in Libya.

Maybe he should have mentioned the 40 or 50 planes they found in iraq instead.

I wasn't aware Cold-War era MiGs that were buried, unprotected, in sand were considered WMDs.

I myself would not consider a mig a WMD(unless of course it is being used a delivery platform). But i think it does show how far Saddam would have gone to hide things....

Yeh, because we all know that a plane cant crash into a building and kill 1500 people. Its this kind of denial that makes terorrist attacks possible.

So according to you those planes are what the Dub was refering to when he told the tale of vast quantities of WMDs in Iraq as his main centerpiece for invading and occupying Iraq?

Red, you usually see things a little more clearly than this. Are you just trying to make a point?

Just pointing out that nuxto's comment that these planes are WMDs is at best foolish.

Probably the same kind of thinking that contributed to 9/11. Tell me how a plane cant be used as a WMD? Tell me it cant reach a ship. Tell me it wouldnt be able to reach a barracks.

More than anything I was pointing out how easy it is to hide as many aircraft as a carrier might have. Airplanes are not as small as people would think. These were huge items hidden easily. Imagine how easy it would be to hide a missile in a desert the size of California.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: nutxo



Probably the same kind of thinking that contributed to 9/11. Tell me how a plane cant be used as a WMD? Tell me it cant reach a ship. Tell me it wouldnt be able to reach a barracks.

So thinking that sand filled Fighter Jets can't be considered weapons of Mass Detruction is what led to 9/11? Oh boy, what about all those other Countries that actually have Fighter Planes that are functional? Watch out for Lichtenstien!!

 

[nutxo]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: nutxo



Probably the same kind of thinking that contributed to 9/11. Tell me how a plane cant be used as a WMD? Tell me it cant reach a ship. Tell me it wouldnt be able to reach a barracks.

So thinking that sand filled Fighter Jets can't be considered weapons of Mass Detruction is what led to 9/11? Oh boy, what about all those other Countries that actually have Fighter Planes that are functional? Watch out for Lichtenstien!!

Damn, are you drunk or just being obstinate today?

 

[steveeast112]

Bush lied again. Whats really new?

 

[Spencer278]

Probably the same kind of thinking that contributed to 9/11. Tell me how a plane cant be used as a WMD? Tell me it cant reach a ship. Tell me it wouldnt be able to reach a barracks.

More than anything I was pointing out how easy it is to hide as many aircraft as a carrier might have. Airplanes are not as small as people would think. These were huge items hidden easily. Imagine how easy it would be to hide a missile in a desert the size of California.

Damn you sound like those crazy libreals that banned key chain because they might be a weapon.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: nutxo

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: nutxo



Probably the same kind of thinking that contributed to 9/11. Tell me how a plane cant be used as a WMD? Tell me it cant reach a ship. Tell me it wouldnt be able to reach a barracks.

So thinking that sand filled Fighter Jets can't be considered weapons of Mass Detruction is what led to 9/11? Oh boy, what about all those other Countries that actually have Fighter Planes that are functional? Watch out for Lichtenstien!!

Damn, are you drunk or just being obstinate today?

Pssst, when you make a stupid comment don't try and justify it with more stupid comments. It doesn't work very well, not even for dmcowen674

 

[TechJunkie95242]

Originally posted by: nutxo

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: nutxo

Originally posted by: conjur
I think his bigger mistake was implying that the mustard gas was found in Iraq.

I don't recall his speech mentioning they were found in Libya.

Maybe he should have mentioned the 40 or 50 planes they found in iraq instead.

I wasn't aware Cold-War era MiGs that were buried, unprotected, in sand were considered WMDs.

f-14's f15.s and f-18s are cold war era planes . "cold war era" does not mean obsolete or ineffective. The mig 25 is the fastest combat aircraft on the planet and can easily out run a missile.

Negative Nutxo
sorry,

MiG-25 "Foxbat"

Length: 22.3 m / 72.2 ft
Wingspan: 13.9 m / 45.8 ft
Max. Take-Off Weight: 36.2 t / 79,800 lbs
Max. Speed: Mach 2.8 / 1,850 mph
Operational Ceiling: 25,000 m / 82,000 ft
Max. Load Factor: + 4.5 g
Engines: 2 x Tumanski R-31 turbojet
Thrust: 2 x 12,250 kg / 27,010 lbs

The Lockheed SR-71 Blackbird , developed by Clarence "Kelly" Johnson's team at the Skunk Works, IS THE ONLY AIRCRAFT CAPABLE OF CRUISING AT MACH 3 (its top speed is still classified)

WHAT ARE U THINKING?!

Russians can't beat us at anything but chess, we still hold the record. Nice try though..
*cough* commie *cough*

Also in development is a hybrid plane between the Sr-71 and NASA's space thrusters that are hydrogen powered. Being hypersonce craft (MACH 5) or above these craft are estimated to reach MACH 15 and can travel worldwide in 90 minutes.
=P
jk man I am sure you were just misinformed

If you don't believe me, heres my link SR-71

 

[heartsurgeon]

i'm sure Bush's misleading statement about mustard gas quantities in Libya will enrage the swing voters and assure kerry's win in 2004.

hahahahah

if this is the best the dems can come up with while the 9/11 commission in session...that's means the dems have lost control of the spin on 9/11

they don't have anything better to fling at Bush

hahahahha

weak.

 

[TechJunkie95242]

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon
i'm sure Bush's misleading statement about mustard gas quantities in Libya will enrage the swing voters and assure kerry's win in 2004.

hahahahah

if this is the best the dems can come up with while the 9/11 commission in session...that's means the dems have lost control of the spin on 9/11

they don't have anything better to fling at Bush

hahahahha

weak.

No, this just shows how Bush has distorted the truth to the American people time over time... Bush is a moron, I think most people will realize that by November. I wonder if the republican party would have supported Gore on this if he were elected.

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon
i'm sure Bush's misleading statement about mustard gas quantities in Libya will enrage the swing voters and assure kerry's win in 2004.

hahahahah

if this is the best the dems can come up with while the 9/11 commission in session...that's means the dems have lost control of the spin on 9/11

they don't have anything better to fling at Bush

hahahahha

weak.

Not this one thing in isolation, no. But how about a systemic and long-running effort to deceive at every turn? Yes, that would turn the voters against him. You simply can't trust anything coming out of the administration's mouth. Rummy lies. Condi lies. Bush - well, Bush you can't tell if he's unable to grasp the facts or perhaps he can't get his brain to come up with the right words, but in the end Bush distorts the truth too.

 

[heartsurgeon]

Yes, that would turn the voters against him

Yep, a few more blockbuster revelations like this and Kerry is a shoe-in....HAHAHA
Nobody cares about this. The public will turn its attention to Teresa Heinz Kerry and her tax returns now, becuase that's more interesting. She will protst, keeping it in th news cycle even longer, he will jtry to defend her...his prior statements on disclosure will come into play....she will eventually relent, class envu will erupt when the obscene amounts of wealth the Kerry's have is disclosed.

 

[dnuggett]

Originally posted by: Gaard

I fail to see how 23.6 tons is any less dangerous than 50.

Is that the point of the thread?

The point of the thread was that he misspoke. The point of the quoted statement is, does that particular event really matter? The amount in tonnage when you get that high becomes less and less relevant.

 

[Gaard]

Originally posted by: dnuggett

Originally posted by: Gaard

I fail to see how 23.6 tons is any less dangerous than 50.

Is that the point of the thread?

The point of the thread was that he misspoke. The point of the quoted statement is, does that particular event really matter? The amount in tonnage when you get that high becomes less and less relevant.

Hmmm, I'll get right on e-mailing McClellan that. I think I read where he was doing a lot of scrambling this morning. Silly guy.

 

[nutxo]

Originally posted by: TechJunkie95242

Originally posted by: nutxo

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: nutxo

Originally posted by: conjur
I think his bigger mistake was implying that the mustard gas was found in Iraq.

I don't recall his speech mentioning they were found in Libya.

Maybe he should have mentioned the 40 or 50 planes they found in iraq instead.

I wasn't aware Cold-War era MiGs that were buried, unprotected, in sand were considered WMDs.

f-14's f15.s and f-18s are cold war era planes . "cold war era" does not mean obsolete or ineffective. The mig 25 is the fastest combat aircraft on the planet and can easily out run a missile.

Negative Nutxo
sorry,

MiG-25 "Foxbat"

umm,

Length: 22.3 m / 72.2 ft
Wingspan: 13.9 m / 45.8 ft
Max. Take-Off Weight: 36.2 t / 79,800 lbs
Max. Speed: Mach 2.8 / 1,850 mph
Operational Ceiling: 25,000 m / 82,000 ft
Max. Load Factor: + 4.5 g
Engines: 2 x Tumanski R-31 turbojet
Thrust: 2 x 12,250 kg / 27,010 lbs

The Lockheed SR-71 Blackbird , developed by Clarence "Kelly" Johnson's team at the Skunk Works, IS THE ONLY AIRCRAFT CAPABLE OF CRUISING AT MACH 3 (its top speed is still classified)

WHAT ARE U THINKING?!

Russians can't beat us at anything but chess, we still hold the record. Nice try though..
*cough* commie *cough*

Also in development is a hybrid plane between the Sr-71 and NASA's space thrusters that are hydrogen powered. Being hypersonce craft (MACH 5) or above these craft are estimated to reach MACH 15 and can travel worldwide in 90 minutes.
=P
jk man I am sure you were just misinformed

If you don't believe me, heres my link SR-71

umm, combat aircraft, not recon, ya dork

edit, I used to live by Beale afb, I used to see the sr71 once in a while

 

[TechJunkie95242]

Originally posted by: nutxo

Originally posted by: TechJunkie95242

Originally posted by: nutxo

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: nutxo

Originally posted by: conjur
I think his bigger mistake was implying that the mustard gas was found in Iraq.

I don't recall his speech mentioning they were found in Libya.

Maybe he should have mentioned the 40 or 50 planes they found in iraq instead.

I wasn't aware Cold-War era MiGs that were buried, unprotected, in sand were considered WMDs.

f-14's f15.s and f-18s are cold war era planes . "cold war era" does not mean obsolete or ineffective. The mig 25 is the fastest combat aircraft on the planet and can easily out run a missile.

Negative Nutxo
sorry,

MiG-25 "Foxbat"

umm,

Length: 22.3 m / 72.2 ft
Wingspan: 13.9 m / 45.8 ft
Max. Take-Off Weight: 36.2 t / 79,800 lbs
Max. Speed: Mach 2.8 / 1,850 mph
Operational Ceiling: 25,000 m / 82,000 ft
Max. Load Factor: + 4.5 g
Engines: 2 x Tumanski R-31 turbojet
Thrust: 2 x 12,250 kg / 27,010 lbs

The Lockheed SR-71 Blackbird , developed by Clarence "Kelly" Johnson's team at the Skunk Works, IS THE ONLY AIRCRAFT CAPABLE OF CRUISING AT MACH 3 (its top speed is still classified)

WHAT ARE U THINKING?!

Russians can't beat us at anything but chess, we still hold the record. Nice try though..
*cough* commie *cough*

Also in development is a hybrid plane between the Sr-71 and NASA's space thrusters that are hydrogen powered. Being hypersonce craft (MACH 5) or above these craft are estimated to reach MACH 15 and can travel worldwide in 90 minutes.
=P
jk man I am sure you were just misinformed

If you don't believe me, heres my link SR-71

umm, combat aircraft, not recon, ya dork

edit, I used to live by Beale afb, I used to see the sr71 once in a while

LOL, my bad ten minutes after I post i thought about it and i decided to keep it up instead of editing lol.... Still we could be better if we wanted to.

 

[TechJunkie95242]

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon

Yes, that would turn the voters against him

Yep, a few more blockbuster revelations like this and Kerry is a shoe-in....HAHAHA
Nobody cares about this. The public will turn its attention to Teresa Heinz Kerry and her tax returns now, becuase that's more interesting. She will protst, keeping it in th news cycle even longer, he will jtry to defend her...his prior statements on disclosure will come into play....she will eventually relent, class envu will erupt when the obscene amounts of wealth the Kerry's have is disclosed.

I don't get it, your calling democrats weak because their jumping at the fact that GWB has LIED again. Your saying that Mr. and Mrs. Kerry's tax returns are more important that the Commander and Cheif lying yet again to the nation? Man give it up, im sick of you and every republican who makes fun of democrats for being right. Except for Lincoln, who was the first to fall under the Republican flag, I don't think theres been any president who could hold a candle to FDR, or Kennedy. Face it, democrats are better..

 

[Gand1]

What I don't understand is why? 25 tons 50 tons it does not really matter when it's in that large of an amount. Obviously all he says is pre screened, so either what he was supposed to say was the correct amount or Bush decieded to inflate the number a bit. Why would you do this? It's pointless and makes you look like an idiot when the true number is found!

So here is the real question; Since Bush had no problem DOUBLING the amount of mustard found, what else has he exageratted on!? :disgust:

 

[TechJunkie95242]

Originally posted by: Gand1
What I don't understand is why? 25 tons 50 tons it does not really matter when it's in that large of an amount. Obviously all he says is pre screened, so either what he was supposed to say was the correct amount or Bush decieded to inflate the number a bit. Why would you do this? It's pointless and makes you look like an idiot when the true number is found!

So here is the real question; Since Bush had no problem DOUBLING the amount of mustard found, what else has he exageratted on!? :disgust:

Thank you..... You have helped support my point on the evil inside the Bush administration, and conspiracies.

 

[CQuinn]

nutxo,

wouldn't those planes (if flyable) still have to contend with the no-fly zones that were still in force
over Iraq?

 

[nutxo]

Originally posted by: CQuinn
nutxo,

wouldn't those planes (if flyable) still have to contend with the no-fly zones that were still in force
over Iraq?

Why? If they were fully operational and saddam were determined there is nothing that could catch them or shoot them down, they can outrun missiles.

 

[Spencer278]

Originally posted by: nutxo

Originally posted by: CQuinn
nutxo,

wouldn't those planes (if flyable) still have to contend with the no-fly zones that were still in force
over Iraq?

Why? If they were fully operational and saddam were determined there is nothing that could catch them or shoot them down, they can outrun missiles.

They can't out run missles. At least with out any training/flight time for the crew. As some one pointed out the SR-71 flies faster and higher then the MiG want to take a guess how one was shoot down in Russia?

 

[CQuinn]

Originally posted by: Spencer278

Originally posted by: nutxo


Why? If they were fully operational and saddam were determined there is nothing that could catch them or shoot them down, they can outrun missiles.

They can't out run missles. At least with out any training/flight time for the crew. As some one pointed out the SR-71 flies faster and higher then the MiG want to take a guess how one was shoot down in Russia?

There was a U-2 spyplane shot down, but I don't recall any SR-71s ever being downed over Soviet Airspace.

nutxo, technically the Mig-25 could have probably outrun some of the older cold war missile designs, but...

1. The only recorded cases of a Mig-25 achieving thoses speeds resulted in the aircraft suffering complete
engine burnout as a result, rendering it inoperable.

2. It does not take into account advancements in air-to-air missile designs and fighting tactics since the Foxbat
was put into operation.

3. Mig-25 shot down by AIM-120 AMRAAM missile

 

[unsaved]

Originally posted by: nutxo

Originally posted by: CQuinn
nutxo,

wouldn't those planes (if flyable) still have to contend with the no-fly zones that were still in force
over Iraq?

Why? If they were fully operational and saddam were determined there is nothing that could catch them or shoot them down, they can outrun missiles.

and then what? run out of fuel over the ocean trying to make it to north america?