On the Tyranny of the Majority in posting on a Left-leaning forum:

[nakedfrog]

All you tyrants should be nicer to OP!

 

[cytg111]

Moonie has decided this forum is “the radical left” primarily cause he has the hots for J. Peterson.
(who incidentally has taken another notch to the reicht)

 

[IronWing]

Moonie has decided this forum is “the radical left” primarily cause he has the hots for J. Peterson.
(who incidentally has taken another notch to the reicht)

Nah, Moonbeam is annoyed that there is so little support here for his precious Prop-13 tax break among folks who don't benefit from it. Opposing Prop-13 is how we joined the radical left.

Phil Ochs on liberals, "Ten degrees to the left of center in good times. Ten degrees to the right of center if it affects them personally."

 

[Moonbeam]

Nah, Moonbeam is annoyed that there is so little support here for his precious Prop-13 tax break among folks who don't benefit from it. Opposing Prop-13 is how we joined the radical left.

Phil Ochs on liberals, "Ten degrees to the left of center in good times. Ten degrees to the right of center if it affects them personally."

If you were aware that my opposition to 13 removal has nothing to to do with it benefiting me and that I voted against it when it was on the ballot? If you were would that alter what you have accused me of here?

 

[IronWing]

If you were aware that my opposition to 13 removal has nothing to to do with it benefiting me and that I voted against it when it was on the ballot? If you were would that alter what you have accused me of here?

Nope

 

[Moonbeam]

Nope

Why. The validity of your rant de pends on them being true. Why would you hold onto a point of view denied by the facts?

 

[PowerEngineer]

I guess I'm not seeing how tyranny becomes an issue in an internet forum like this one where everybody gets to express their opinions freely and with little censorship. Surely you cannot be tyrannized by other posters. Amazed? Amused? Annoyed? Appalled? Yes. Tyrannized? No.

It is virtually certain that there will be one take on a posted issue that garners more support than the others. Seems kind of silly to imply that any majority is automatically tyrannical.

FWIW I am much more troubled by the antithesis of the tyranny of the majority. The spreading populist notion that every individual's opinion is just as worthwhile as anyone (and everyone) else's (and just as likely to be the best and/or most correct) along with the implied nobility that rugged individual action is superior to working with others to achieve common goals. The anarchy of the know-it-all individualists.

 

[Moonbeam]

I guess I'm not seeing how tyranny becomes an issue in an internet forum like this one where everybody gets to express their opinions freely and with little censorship. Surely you cannot be tyrannized by other posters. Amazed? Amused? Annoyed? Appalled? Yes. Tyrannized? No.

It is virtually certain that there will be one take on a posted issue that garners more support than the others. Seems kind of silly to imply that any majority is automatically tyrannical.

FWIW I am much more troubled by the antithesis of the tyranny of the majority. The spreading populist notion that every individual's opinion is just as worthwhile as anyone (and everyone) else's (and just as likely to be the best and/or most correct) along with the implied nobility that rugged individual action is superior to working with others to achieve common goals. The anarchy of the know-it-all individualists.

My effort in this thread has been about everything that you say here. You have stated that you do not see tyranny becomes an issue on a forum like this where everybody is free and unregulated and that is exactly the point that JS Mill made, that people alway look at tyranny as exactly that, the tyranny of the powers that be, not noticing the tyranny of the society itself, the forum members themselves, to tyrannize individual members.

The point is not about how mean or not mean or how well or not well deserved people imagine that kind of behavior to be, it matters in what it implies, what it creates and how and why.

The point is that it a product of group fear, that it leads to bullying and oppression, blind rejection of reason and all exactly like the anarchy egotistical know-it-alls frightened sheep.

What I suggest you are missing in your point of view is that we create what we fear, the fear of conservative fear creates fear on the left with all the same features, certainty that anything that might challenge that certainty must be stamped out, and particularly anything that questions the absurdity of that certainty. Fear and the fury at its provocation is contagious madness. That was what I visually provoked in this thread for anybody willing to see.

The kind of insight I feel a desire to transmit to others is not easily done because of the fact of ego. Who needs to learn anything when we already know. Learning is unlearning assumptions that prevent open receptivity, a willingness to contemplate and listen. But instead they want to tell you that you stepped on and should pay for their sore toe.

 

[biostud]

Personal preference of course but compared to the nutters in df and nb, ill take one of her any day. Its the rise of populism, its a nut cracker. Wouldnt it be something, that the thing that is supposed to connect us all, the internet, is the very thing that ends up breaking us, social media? How is that for Irony.
How come that her dance with the law has been received the way it has while another, widely unpopular profession, animal cruelty for fur shut down by covid, has another politician on the ropes?
If you got the media and bucks to sell it, they can blast it right into our minds.

Looking forward to a quick guilty rule in MELD and FELD for Morten, that would be extremely funny.
But yeah NB and what remains of DF are more extreme politically than DD.

NB = fremskridtspartiet 2.0
DD = DF 2.0 (there might even be more DF politicians in DD than DF)

 

[biostud]

For me it isn't just a something. It is a critical point necessary to understand for our survival. We create what we fear. I believe that what we fear is re-experiencing our deepest feelings, the experiences of childhood where we were put down as a threat to the reputation of the family, the group, the team, the party, the nation, humanity and proper morality itself. In ordinary circumstances of relative plenty and social progress, where there is a feeling that justice prevails, the liberal mind can flower. But when things turn to the negative and some 'other' is blamed the liberal turns into a conservative filled with contempt, in the liberal's case, with people who promulgate divisive fear. That just creates more of what we fear. When the water in the toilet bowl starts to experience the Coriolis force the left and the right start paddling in the same direction with it.

So I am not sure if you want to tell I am off in my opinion and have confused it with substance or not.

I have hope that the US with it's long history of immigration and stigmatization of the newly arrived and all our myths and realities about being a melting pot will prove to have risen above the Trump wave of what I hope will prove another instance in our history of temporary insanity. The US really is a place that underdogs can prosper to the benefit of all Americans.

My comment wasn't directed at you in particular, more of a general statement.

To be completely honest I don't hang out in P/N enough to be able to single anyone out.

 

[Jaskalas]

The point is that it a product of group fear, that it leads to bullying and oppression, blind rejection of reason and all exactly like the anarchy egotistical know-it-alls frightened sheep.

Of course no one needs to be told that, for they are all good and righteousness incarnate. Not tribal or zealous or delusional like those "other" people. Certainly not human.
Least that's what our Egos tell us.

 

[Moonbeam]

My comment wasn't directed at you in particular, more of a general statement.

To be completely honest I don't hang out in P/N enough to be able to single anyone out.

I thought not but I had a suspicion that some others did. I asked BD what he saw because I had a hunch he liked what you said for the same reasons that I did.

 

[Moonbeam]

Of course no one needs to be told that, for they are all good and righteousness incarnate. Not tribal or zealous or delusional like those "other" people. Certainly not human.
Least that's what our Egos tell us.

And I think always because we pay no attention to the unconscious assumptions we make, that any weakening of faith in the ego spells self contempt or should I say the awareness it's what we actually do feel.

 

[Braznor]

If Anandtech forums is our home, then P&N is the septic tank. So of course, there will be plenty of turds floating about here. Thats nothing to worry about.

 

[woolfe9998]

I believe that what we fear is re-experiencing our deepest feelings, the experiences of childhood where we were put down as a threat to the reputation of the family, the group, the team, the party, the nation, humanity and proper morality itself.

So I have a question. What you write above is something you've been writing on this board for at least 15 years now, and I've always wondered about it. Do you mean this in a literal sense? In which case, I would point out that you are in effect saying that everyone's early childhood experience is the same.

To me, this sounds a lot like a Freudian psychodrama. Not the same psychodramas that Freud believed occurred in early childhood, but the idea of a drama that plays out in a child's head playing such a highly deterministic role in his or her behavior throughout life. It's a very Freudian idea.

 

[Moonbeam]

So I have a question. What you write above is something you've been writing on this board for at least 15 years now, and I've always wondered about it. Do you mean this in a literal sense? In which case, I would point out that you are in effect saying that everyone's early childhood experience is the same.

To me, this sounds a lot like a Freudian psychodrama. Not the same psychodramas that Freud believed occurred in early childhood, but the idea of a drama that plays out in a child's head playing such a highly deterministic role in his or her behavior throughout life. It's a very Freudian idea.

I can't answer if I mean this in a literal sense because I don't know in what way you see it as literal. This is the best explanation I can think of to give you on literal:

Everyone is different. We all have unique and individual pasts. It is easy to see that negative childhoods, abused children grow up with far more to deal with than more typical and certainly supportive families. The result, of course, is that it is easy to think none of this actually applies to me. So it is not every childhood different, what is it that I think is actually the same?

This is a harder question. The simple answer is that we have all been keenly aware of how painful it is to be put down. It is the fact that in one way or another we have been made to experience the fear that if we do not follow the rules we will be ostracized. I am saying that we could not have survived resisting that conditioning or it would have lead to our real or imagined deaths. I refer to this surrender as psychic death. We died to our true selves because the ego can and did save us. We bought the lie that if we didn't join in the madness of the belief system around us we would be found worthless of love. That is the lie that ego denies we believe at our next to deepest level.

We have all been profoundly stunted as to our real potential but mostly content with the boxes we were put in.

But some of not so much. Some of us are driven by the question, what is the matrix.

My teacher was like that. When I met him he had he claimed more psychoanalysis under his belt than any other person. Owing to a shock in his highly successful life he went on a quest, what did a young woman mean by rejecting her boyfriend because "He loves me the dope". Did that have any relationship to his wife asking for a divorce when they had a very ideal marriage. In analysis he relived his past back to the age of six months and discovered that he too to his amazement had been taught this hate of self. For him the revolution was massive and he claimed complete.

When I encountered him I had already been on my own quest. But for me the revelation was superficial and brief. I had penetrated the illusions of faith thanks to the evident hypocrisy of obvious to Christian pretenders. I had much earlier become convinced that humanity is insane. Thanks to Zen I experienced a moment where thought ended and I woke up. No deep transformation for me, unless you call the ending of the experience of abject hopelessness a big deal.

He actually suggested to me that he suspected that at a deep level it is thought that creates our prison, that the nature of duality produced by language makes the experience of feeling put down possible. I had already realized that hypocrisy is flight from pain and that our mental prison is based on the assumptions we make, assumptions transmitted by the language of our personal experience.

It was many years before I experienced what it is to relive the past and to be blown away by feeling what I was really feeling and had no conscious awareness of at all. But it transformed intellectual acceptance into knowing he was right. We do not know what we really feel.

I have never forgotten that you said you have been on a journey of your own in the past that it took to imply deeper insight than many may have and I figure that's why you were curious and asked what you did.

We use words to hurt in the same way we were hurt. We create the other because we will not look at who we really hate. If you are any sort of other, an outsider of any kind, you have a better chance of acquiring life experiences that affirm that. For some of us to conform to the majority isn't always successful and the consequences can vary.

 

[dlerious]

Even if US decided to change to a parliamentary system, won’t make a difference until they actually create viable 3rd parties. And how model is our society? The right wing nut jobs taking talking points from the MAGAtards down south. Yesterday our own QAnon quack lady ordered her moronic followers to arrest an entire police department for failure to arrest Trudeau for treason and other various violations related to covid restrictions. She remains away from the protest so she can’t be arrested. But unsure what 2 followers did beyond the others to get arrested though.

Is that the half alien Queen Dilo?

 

[Moonbeam]

Is that the half alien Queen Dilo?

that is just so absolutely ridiculous. I never made her Queen of Canada.

 

[Lezunto]

I really admire how polite Canadians are.

 

[sdifox]

I really admire how polite Canadians are.

Eh? Maybe a portion of Canadians still maintain decorum. I don't .

 

[Mai72]

Is that the half alien Queen Dilo?

lol, a bunch of delusioned middle aged people. They should try that crap in China,Thailand or Cambodia.

Ha. Sardines?

 

[eelw]

Eh? Maybe a portion of Canadians still maintain decorum. I don't .

Yeah dipping into the antivax, can find idiots willing to attempt to arrest Trudeau to oust him from power even though the Liberal party won re-election a year ago.

 

[Captante]

lol, a bunch of delusioned middle aged people. They should try that crap in China,Thailand or Cambodia.

Ha. Sardines?

Nevermind Thailand or Cambodia.... try it in New Haven you'll land on your head in a filthy lockup with the crack/-dealers so fast your head will be spinning.

 

[Pohemi]

I am saying that while you do not believe you are dishonest in lashing out, that, in fact, it is dishonest to do so. There is deep wisdom to be learned from ‘let he who is without sin cast the first stone’.

This is precisely why the :eyeroll: reaction should not have been removed.

How about, 'Let he who is without worldly concerns cast the first pseudo-psychoanalysis.'

I had replied to your rambling OP in at least partial agreement, and explanation of such. And still...you feel it necessary to condescend to me about how I think and feel, because of course Moonpie knows better than anyone how every other single individual on Earth thinks and feels, and why (because childhood putdowns bullshit etc).

You are not as clever or wise as you like to think, and you have nothing to say or offer that is new or hasn't been seen before. I've had friends who thought and spoke as you do when they were teenagers. Then they moved past their psycho-spiritual introversion and decided to live in the real world. You just want to project yours at everyone else (ie extroversion).

My 'open mind' has seen enough of this over 3 decades. No more for you, because you deposit nothing of value; just more of the same old broken record.

 

[Captante]

My 'open mind' has seen enough of this over 3 decades. No more for you, because you deposit nothing of value; just more of the same old broken record.

He is however an amusing clown once you stop lending him credibility just because he uses "big words" frequently and actually break down his comments for meaning. (only to discover it's 90% gibberish)