omg, wow, intereview with Apple about their G5, cought with their pants down

[addragyn]

Meh. 64 bit non-server machines have been out for over ten years. So they're all wrong. Marketing... However it is likely that the G5 is first 64bit computer that will see *consumer* (in addition to pro) adoption.

Originally posted by: digitalsm

who needs a 64-bit DESKTOP now anyway???

If MS gets Windows XP Pro 64bit out the door by years end, and Alias Wavefront gets a 64bit version of Maya out by Q1'04 Id by a dual Opteron system. However niether is likely. And I prefer Maya over Houdini.

You know Apple just had a Shake promotion where Maya users could get a $3,000 credit for going OS X. So the frickin' G5 would've been free. If you're also a shake user.

They were even doing a two for one trade towards OS X Shake licenses.

Not to mention the 50% lower price, plus free render nodes on OS X. If you do this kind of work and are price sensitive Apple has come in swinging. Prices here since the Apple page is now gone.

Digitalsm you might find this thread interesting. Notice the sales figures for Maya on OS X. :Q

 

[sniperruff]

you know what, the whole issue reminds me of an episode of SIMPSONS where homer and monty burns stole a million dollar bill and went to CUBA.

so mr burns and homer were driving an antique car (forgot what it was called), and chief wiggums spotted it

[police radio] calling all units, stay alert for a maroon 1923 *antique car's name*

* Mr. Burns and Homer drives right by chief wiggums, which is a dark reddish color

[Chief Wiggums] Eh. It was more like burgundy

 

[Aganack1]

moscoI?m sorry to burst your bubble, but that?s what I am using right now as my personal computer. Though if I wasn't using it as a personal computer I would call it a workstation... but I would call the dual processor G5 a workstation also.

I find it mildly amusing that guy just fumbles all over him self. Any way the Definition of Desktop : Small enough to fit conveniently in an individual workspace: a desktop computer.

the g5 is bigger then my opteron system.

 

[lameaway]

Yes, lets argue endlessly about ultimately pointless and fuzzily-defined semantics! That's an excellent idea!

 

[digitalsm]

Digitalsm you might find this thread interesting. Notice the sales figures for Maya on OS X.

Its projected to be 25%. Big deal, Ive used Maya on the MAC, Maya on the PC is a whole heck of alot better, and I really dont see the G5 changing that. The main reason why Maya for Mac is 20-25% of all commercial sales, is because 3DStudio Max, XSI and Houdini arent for the mac. I dont use shake. Ive used combustion, and digital fusion for compositing. Yes renderman will be released for the G5, weather or not Pixar replaces their SGI machines for doing animation is yet to be seen. I will say I seriously doubt they will replace their xeon/linux renderfarm with G5s, not cost effective. However when it comes to animation and special effects, most studios are running PCs now. SGIs just arent cost effective anymore.

 

[Viper96720]

Traditionally workstation meant a computer designed to run UNIX.

 

[bigpow]

Originally posted by: dmw16
MAC sucks.

INDEED!

 

[bigpow]

Originally posted by: mosco

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: Pariah
Bickering over something like that is just dumb. It's all semantics. What exactly differentiates a desktop from a workstation? Basically what the owner uses the system for determines what it is. If I bought a quad Xeon and stuck it under my desk and surfed the internet with it and played games it would be my desktop, but no one who saw a system like that for sale would call it a desktop. We all known AMD thinks of the Opteron as a workstation/server CPU while the Athlon64 will be the desktop variant. From that standpoint, the G5 is the first 64bit desktop. Does it matter? No more than AMD beating Intel to it, which means practically nothing.

but basicly a desktop is a mainstream computer, the g5 isnt that, the imac is apples mainstream computer

\


Uh, to you guys that keep saying the G5 isn't "mainstream" or is a workstation. I have a powermac G4 that i use as my personal computer. I don't use it as a workstation. Alot of Mac users buy powermacs even though they use them as personal computers. A dual 2Ghz G5 is something i can see someone using as a personal computer, a dual opteron is not. The commercial doesn't say "the fastest most powerful computer today" as someone said earlier, they said "the fastest most powerful personal computer". Thats a direct quote and thats exactly what it is, "no matter what spin" you guys want to put on it.

Sure...

Mac boys sure know how to be politically correct...

 

[vetteguy]

It depends on what your definitition of "is" is

 

[sharkeeper]

NOT a typo!

-DAK-

 

[Eug]

I'll probably buy a dual G5 Mac to use as a desktop (in 2004). I just want the speed to run video stuff (eg. iMovie and iDVD). I don't think I'd buy any sort of Opteron for that sort of usage. (Mind you, if work wasn't paying for part of it, I'd probably just buy a single G5.)

To me, the G5 is a desktop that breaks into the workstation class. The dual Opteron is a workstation that doesn't break into the desktop class. True, it's partially just semantics, but somehow I just don't see the Boxx system as a mainstream user's computer.

 

[Sideswipe001]

Give me the money you'd spend on your dual G5 to use as a desktop...and I'll buy an opteron and use it as a desktop.

What the G5 is or isn't is moot. How many people would throw down that much money just because a commercial tells them it's the fastest desktop?
The people who buy it will know what they are buying. Very very few people throw down that much cash in ignorance.

Mac lovers can have their G5s. The commercial didn't convince *me* to buy one...nor did it convince many people.

So overall, what does it matter?

Neither run in 64 bit mode now. Both are expensive. Both can be used as a desktop or workstation. End of story.

 

[mosco]

Originally posted by: Sideswipe001
Give me the money you'd spend on your dual G5 to use as a desktop...and I'll buy an opteron and use it as a desktop.

What the G5 is or isn't is moot. How many people would throw down that much money just because a commercial tells them it's the fastest desktop?
The people who buy it will know what they are buying. Very very few people throw down that much cash in ignorance.

Mac lovers can have their G5s. The commercial didn't convince *me* to buy one...nor did it convince many people.

So overall, what does it matter?

Neither run in 64 bit mode now. Both are expensive. Both can be used as a desktop or workstation. End of story.

No it doesn't matter, but who is making this an issue? People who don't like Macs are.

Jeeze, people wonder why mac users are so defensive but it seems pretty obvious to me, they have to deal with people saying "MAC sucks." in every thread about them. I own both a mac and pc and they are both far from perfect but neither "suck". It would seem stupid to bash the only consumer competition to Microsoft so fast without getting to know the product (i didn't forget linux, but linux still is not as consumer friendly as it needs to be).

 

[RanDum72]

Like somebody has already mentioned its all about semantics, which doesn't mean anything. If I buy a dual CPU G5 and install lots of games and chat software, with Word installed as an afterthought, it'll be a desktop. I dont care if you install professional level graphics cards on it, If the majority of the time it does is not about work, its a 'personal' desktop or PC. The only distinction between the two 'types' is how its being used. You can use a K6-2 PC and use it to type in a book that needs to be published and it can be called a 'workstation'. People seem to equate 'workstation' with industrial-strength specs like dual CPU's etc... which is a myth coined up by PC makers so they can make more money by adding features you probably don't need. ANY PC can be workstation as long as you do most of your work on it, in whatever profession you do( no wonder why they called it a 'work' station?).

 

[AnImuS]

i like macs does that make me insane?

 

[mosco]

Originally posted by: RanDum72
Like somebody has already mentioned its all about semantics, which doesn't mean anything. If I buy a dual CPU G5 and install lots of games and chat software, with Word installed as an afterthought, it'll be a desktop. I dont care if you install professional level graphics cards on it, If the majority of the time it does is not about work, its a 'personal' desktop or PC. The only distinction between the two 'types' is how its being used. You can use a K6-2 PC and use it to type in a book that needs to be published and it can be called a 'workstation'. People seem to equate 'workstation' with industrial-strength specs like dual CPU's etc... which is a myth coined up by PC makers so they can make more money by adding features you probably don't need. ANY PC can be workstation as long as you do most of your work on it, in whatever profession you do( no wonder why they called it a 'work' station?).

Thats a very good point. The G5 does come with iMovie and Idvd and other consumer apps.

 

[LethalWolfe]

Originally posted by: bigpow
LOL

The big boys from Intel/AMD need to kick their a$$es more IMO

I've seen the latest Apple TV ad, they practically yell it out "the fastest most powerful computer today"

IMO that's BS marketing.

All marketing is BS.

Originally posted by: dmw16


MAC sucks.

If you dislike MACs so much I sugget you stay off the internet and away from networks.


Lethal

 

[Eug]

Originally posted by: Sideswipe001
Give me the money you'd spend on your dual G5 to use as a desktop...and I'll buy an opteron and use it as a desktop.

Well, I should point out that you'll need a few more bux to buy software to actually use the machine.

Doesn't matter though, since iMovie, iDVD, and iTunes don't run on the Opteron. (Well, iTunes might be out for Windows in 2004, maybe.)

Neither run in 64 bit mode now.

Well, the G5 will run 64-bit optimized software, if you're into that. OS X.2.7 and OS X.3 both allow it. The main reason is the memory addressing for most apps. No 2/4 GB limit. ie. Run an app with a 6 GB database in memory and 32-bit MS Office and iDVD on the same computer at the same time. Won't affect me though, since I don't have need for that much memory.

BTW, this is very different from the Opteron. The Opteron Boxx running Windows is essentially a 32-bit machine. Fast yes, but 64-bit? No, because the OS doesn't support it (for now).

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Originally posted by: lameaway
Yes, lets argue endlessly about ultimately pointless and fuzzily-defined semantics! That's an excellent idea!

And they will too! :disgust:

 

[glugglug]

This Opteron Desktop has been around a lot longer than the Boxx, and is much cheaper than a G5. They actually had sub-$1400 Opteron machines at this site before the dual proc one listed now.

Yes, I know the ads list it as a "workstation", but I always thought the primary distinction between a desktop and a server/workstation was the pricing for business idiots, which makes the G5 more of a "workstation", heh.

Edit: The single-proc Opteron is still there, just no longer linked directly from their main page.

 

[glugglug]

Originally posted by: Eug

BTW, this is very different from the Opteron. The Opteron Boxx running Windows is essentially a 32-bit machine. Fast yes, but 64-bit? No, because the OS doesn't support it (for now).

There is 64-bit Windows 2003 Advanced Server for it, which came out in April.
Just no Home/Professional Edition 64-bit Windows versions yet.

BTW, I've yet to find a game that doesn't work in Advanced Server (unless it doesn't work in any variety of Win2K/XP, and is just for Win9x). Oddly enough the main applications which need special versions for Windows server OSes are defrag utilities.

Or you could run Linux.

 

[Eug]

Originally posted by: glugglug
This Opteron Desktop has been around a lot longer than the Boxx, and is much cheaper than a G5. They actually had sub-$1400 Opteron machines at this site before the dual proc one listed now.

Yes, I know the ads list it as a "workstation", but I always thought the primary distinction between a desktop and a server/workstation was the pricing for business idiots, which makes the G5 more of a "workstation", heh.

It's cheaper if you remove all the bells and whistles. But if you add a big hard drive, DVD burner, 2nd CPU, reasonable video card, etc. the price is comparable.

And it's only 64-bit if you run something like a 64-bit Linux... hardly a desktop OS.

There is 64-bit Windows 2003 Advanced Server for it, which came out in April.

Beta.

 

[mosco]

http://www.xicomputer.com/products/mtoweropmp.asp

i just did a comparison, if you get the slowest dual opteron and then match to the mac(dual G5) the price difference is only about 250 dollars, then add the price of a firewire 800 card(80 dollars), and then another 40 gig hard drive(120Gb is the max SATA drive they offer, lowest apple gives is a 160Gb), and it doesn't say whather the board has serial ata built in or not, it just says 2 X ATA100 so add a card for that. And the G5 uses PC3200 memory wile that uses PC2700. Oh and i just forgot that you need Windows XP pro to use dual opterons, thats another 100 dollars. not to mention the G5 has a nicer looking case, and is probably quieter.

 

[addragyn]

It's not a projection. It's the numbers Alias delivered.

Alias/Wavefront has reported that 25 percent of all commercial units of Maya are now sold for the Mac OS X platform in North America and 20 percent globally. The company says this shows that Maya is the leading 3D animation software package on the Mac. link

For Apple 25%, of a young market (Maya has been on Mac for what 3 years now?)

 

[ViRGE]

Originally posted by: sniperruff
the main problem is:

who needs a 64-bit DESKTOP now anyway???

Apple tends to be a very "forward looking" company, so much of this is their laying the groundwork for stuff a couple of years down the line(unless you're the kind of user that really does need 64bit right now). Once the market is seeded with 64bit G5 CPUs, Apple can start encouraging developers to usr 64bit mode more liberally, and Apple can do the same thing. Apple isn't bothering with the 64bit jump for nothing, they're just not set to reap the benefits all at once.

PS The only shipping versions of Windows with 64bit support are IA64 versions for the Itanic, none are shipping for x86-64