Oklahoma teen arrested in school shooting plot...

[Engineer]

http://news.yahoo.com/okla-teen-arrested-school-shooting-plot-184243533.html

BARTLESVILLE, Okla. (AP) — An Oklahoma high school student is in custody on charges he plotted to bomb and shoot students at the Bartlesville High School auditorium on the same day 26 people were shot and killed at an elementary school in Connecticut.

Police arrested 18-year-old Sammie Eaglebear Chavez at about 4:30 a.m. Friday after learning of the alleged plot Thursday.

An arrest affidavit says Chavez tried to convince other students to help him lure students into the auditorium, chain the doors shut and start shooting. The Tulsa World reports that authorities say Chavez threatened to kill students who didn't help.

The Bartlesville Examiner-Enterprise reports Chavez planned to detonate bombs at the doors as police arrived.

The school district says students were never in danger. Chavez is being held on $1 million bond.

I guess I need to comment on this. Does SMH count as a comment? Why? Why? Goddamnit.....why?

Age: 18

Part of the generation that grew up without anyone allowed to bust this guy's ass. If anyone here can't see a pattern from the young people in this country and connect it with the way that we are forced to coddle them, then you just aren't paying attention.

 

[Pocatello]

It's the big bad world against me mentality, they're the problem, not me.

 

[techs]

Kids today see the US as a place where the priveleged literally get away with murder while they see a future for themselves that consists of 40-50 years of hard work with no security, no retirement and no justice.

Its pretty easy to see a corrupted US where individuals are at the mercy of corporations and the wealthy. And its affecting their mental health.

 

[Engineer]

Kids today see the US as a place where the priveleged literally get away with murder while they see a future for themselves that consists of 40-50 years of hard work with no security, no retirement and no justice.

Its pretty easy to see a corrupted US where individuals are at the mercy of corporations and the wealthy. And its affecting their mental health.

That's not the reason that these people are doing what they are doing. They are not worried about not having retirements, a job or anything else. They have no fear because it was never instilled into them by their parents, educators or anyone else. Spare the rod and spoil the child has never been more true....

 

[Nintendesert]

Entitled children that have never been told no, never been allowed to lose and fail and learn to cope with it. Kids with no coping skills and a media that bombards them with violence and death in every single thing they do. From music to video games to movies to everything on TV murder and death are everywhere. How many movies do we watch where the problems are resolved through talking and how many instead end up with someone simply killing the other? Kids are taught to use violence as a means to solve their problem.

 

[Engineer]

Entitled children that have never been told no, never been allowed to lose and fail and learn to cope with it. Kids with no coping skills and a media that bombards them with violence and death in every single thing they do. From music to video games to movies to everything on TV murder and death are everywhere. How many movies do we watch where the problems are resolved through talking and how many instead end up with someone simply killing the other? Kids are taught to use violence as a means to solve their problem.

and the damn, no consequences social media that these kids use everyday doesn't help. You can spew anything you want on there with literally no consequences. These kids don't realize that there is a real person on the other end......and after a certain point, they don't care.

 

[kache]

Entitled children that have never been told no, never been allowed to lose and fail and learn to cope with it. Kids with no coping skills and a media that bombards them with violence and death in every single thing they do. From music to video games to movies to everything on TV murder and death are everywhere. How many movies do we watch where the problems are resolved through talking and how many instead end up with someone simply killing the other? Kids are taught to use violence as a means to solve their problem.

Lol.

 

[Nintendesert]

Lol.

See, another child with no coping skills and no ability to argue.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

http://news.yahoo.com/okla-teen-arrested-school-shooting-plot-184243533.html

Part of the generation that grew up without anyone allowed to bust this guy's ass. If anyone here can't see a pattern from the young people in this country and connect it with the way that we are forced to coddle them, then you just aren't paying attention.

I literally could not agree less. Violence begets violence. Essentially every violent criminal is someone who suffered child abuse. If you believe more corporal punishment would somehow alleviate this particular problem, allow me to point out the many similar and even more horrific mass murders that have happened in the past, during the era when corporal punishment was the norm.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

Yes, I'm sure it has been a lack of beatings growing up that's been driving these guys to shoot people.

 

[Engineer]

I literally could not agree less. Violence begets violence. Essentially every violent criminal is someone who suffered child abuse. If you believe more corporal punishment would somehow alleviate this particular problem, allow me to point out the many similar and even more horrific mass murders that have happened in the past, during the era when corporal punishment was the norm.

There is a difference between child abuse and busting your kids behind, and it's not just mass killings that show the effects and lack of respect that is a result of this. If my kid is acting up in WalMart, I should be able to swat their ass without being arrested for it, period.

 

[Engineer]

Yes, I'm sure it has been a lack of beatings growing up that's been driving these guys to shoot people.

Nobody said anything about beating kids. Again, an ass busting is not a beating.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

There is a difference between child abuse and busting your kids behind, and it's not just mass killings that show the effects and lack of respect that is a result of this.

All of the clinical research I am aware of regarding corporal punishment suggests that children are psychologically better adjusted and far less disposed toward violence without it. See, e.g, http://faculty.plts.edu/gpence/html/spank2.htm:

For years, some doctors' organizations have opposed spanking because of research linking it to all sorts of problems in children, including aggressiveness and delinquency. But this line of thinking did not square with reality as many parents saw it. After all, they argued, nearly everyone they knew had been spanked, and most of them turned out all right.

As for the research, these parents said that if spanking was associated with poor behavior, it was because misbehavior led to spanking, not the reverse.

Now, two studies have attempted to settle this chicken-or-egg debate. Each looked at a large group of children around the country to see whether spanking was associated with behavior that became worse over years, not just immediately after the punishment. And each came up with somewhat different answers.

Both studies attempted to answer the question with a snapshot assessing behavior at one point in a child's life and looking at how much it had changed years later.

In both studies, children who were spanked appeared to become more antisocial, meaning that they lied, cheated and bullied other children more.

I am assuming by "busting your kids behind" you mean spanking them, but if you mean something else (like cracking down on them through non-physical means), please be more clear what you're talking about.

 

[lotus503]

Lol yeah the problem is lack of spanking.

I think it's far more complicated than that.

 

[Theb]

From what I've read corporal punishment can cause kids to associate the punishment with their parent rather than with their action. When I send my kids to their room to think about what they did, they aren't actually thinking about what they did, they're thinking about what a dick I am, but it gives us all time to calm down before we sit down and talk about why they did what they did, why it's not ok, and other choices they could've made. If given a choice they would take a quick swat every time.

I don't think any of that has anything to do with school shootings though. Those shooters are severely damaged people that aren't likely to be fixed by any single change in parenting strategy.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

Lol yeah the problem is lack of spanking.

I think it's far more complicated than that.

You just know the last thing that that went through his poor mom's mind before he shot her was "Damn, I wish I had spanked him more." This ranks right up there with Huckabee's comment on why this shit happens.

 

[lotus503]

From what I've read corporal punishment can cause kids to associate the punishment with their parent rather than with their action. When I send my kids to their room to think about what they did, they aren't actually thinking about what they did, they're thinking about what a dick I am, but it gives us all time to calm down before we sit down and talk about why they did what they did, why it's not ok, and other choices they could've made. If given a choice they would take a quick swat every time.

I don't think any of that has anything to do with school shootings though. Those shooters are severely damaged people that aren't likely to be fixed by any single change in parenting strategy.

Well said, however is lanzas mom had secured her guns or not had them at all, he may have stopped at killing her.

 

[BoberFett]

I know I stated that a violent society is partly to blame elsewhere, and do believe that it is, but it's only a part of the story...

As for this particular topic, if corporal punishment and violent media are responsible, then children who grew up in the 50s watching cowboys and indians on TV and getting an ass whooping when they mouthed off should have been shooting up their classmates a long time ago. Children are more coddled than ever, so I don't know if I believe that a little physical punishment is harmful. On the contrary, maybe having your knuckles rapped by a ruler a couple of times makes you realize that you're not a special little flower, prone to going insane when things don't go your way.

 

[Subyman]

Well said, however is lanzas mom had secured her guns or not had them at all, he may have stopped at killing her.

That is such a dumb stance. The problem isn't securing guns, its why the hell did he kill her and the children, not how. How can be anything, bombs, knives, bats, bow and arrow, whatever. The real question is why and what could have tipped people off long in advance that society ignored?

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

I know I stated that a violent society is partly to blame elsewhere, and do believe that it is, but it's only a part of the story...

As for this particular topic, if corporal punishment and violent media are responsible, then children who grew up in the 50s watching cowboys and indians on TV and getting an ass whooping when they mouthed off should have been shooting up their classmates a long time ago. Children are more coddled than ever, so I don't know if I believe that a little physical punishment is harmful. On the contrary, maybe having your knuckles rapped by a ruler a couple of times makes you realize that you're not a special little flower, prone to going insane when things don't go your way.

Nobody said corporal punishment was responsible - the OP said the absence of corporal punishment was responsible. I agree that corporal punishment is not responsible for this (I myself was spanked occasionally as a kid), but neither is the (relative) lack of it. All empirical testing I have ever seen suggests that corporal punishment harms more than hurts when it comes to kids' behavior. From my perspective corporal punishment is one of those things (albeit a lesser one) like smoking or drinking while pregnant - we now know is probably unwise, and while it won't necessarily harm the kid, it doesn't help either.

As for the violent media thing, I don't think it makes sense to blame events like this on the media (obviously the overwhelming majority of people who play violent video games do not behave violently), nor do I think it makes sense (much less Constitutional sense) to ban them.

That being said, it's clear to me that for an already-disturbed and violent mind, playing FPS's and watching ultra-violent movies certainly can't help. The idea that shooting thousands of people from a first-person perspective in Call of Duty is equivalent to watching the Lone Ranger on a black-and-white Philco is just silly. I don't think there's much doubt that practicing shooting people endlessly is probably disinhibiting for an already diseased mind (i.e., it makes it easier to pull the trigger), and it certainly provides practice at running and gunning. In fact, the Norway shooter said he practiced for his own massacre by playing Call of Duty.

 

[dabuddha]

This kid needs to be put to death painfully and immediately. Anyone who thinks he can be rehabilitated needs to be put to death as well.

 

[moonbogg]

deleted-wrong area

 

[Oyeve]

Well said, however is lanzas mom had secured her guns or not had them at all, he may have stopped at killing her.

From what ive read she was a gun enthusiest who took her son shooting all the time to relax him. Why the fuck would you take your mentally fucked up kid and teach him how to shoot?

 

[Nemesis 1]

I literally could not agree less. Violence begets violence. Essentially every violent criminal is someone who suffered child abuse. If you believe more corporal punishment would somehow alleviate this particular problem, allow me to point out the many similar and even more horrific mass murders that have happened in the past, during the era when corporal punishment was the norm.

If You would . Its hard to punish a child. If the people in this forum are an example of people coping with ideas . It has to be totally missed up out there. a good ass licking with Pain is a vary good teacher . BEATINGS is totally differant ballgame and leads to where none wish to go . But just talking and time outs isn't working.

 

[Nemesis 1]

This kid needs to be put to death painfully and immediately. Anyone who thinks he can be rehabilitated needs to be put to death as well.

So your saying that murdering 1 child is differant than X number . I see no differance at all . and death penality should be mandatory. That applies to drunk drivers as well.