OK this teachers union has finally even gotten to me

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shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
82,854
17,365
136
So not being able to have sex is not a valid medical condition? Suppose you have torn cartelige in your knee that ONLY prevents you from engaging in "recreational activity." Should treating it should not be covered by insurance?

- wolf

seven_rules_for_debating_in.jpg
 

boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
18,890
642
126
Well I see I'm getting hit from both sides of the political spectrum so I guess then people shouldn't be confused as to why medical cost are expanding much faster then the rate of inflation. I'm not trying to be a smart ass about this.

Tell me where I'm wrong.
You're not. Nearly a million a year for Viagra is an expense the school system - scratch that - the taxpayers should not have to bear IMO. The lines must be drawn somewhere. Look at it this way. Prior to Viagra, Cialis and whatever others are out there, men (and their women) learned to deal with it. These medications are modern inventions that are not necessary for the support of life.

Nobody is going to die because they were denied medication that gives them a chubber.
 
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her209

No Lifer
Oct 11, 2000
56,352
11
0
I am not really familiar with the legal reasoning, but from an economic point of view, the importance of something to a person is an indicator of how their quality of life has declined due to its loss. It is like putting a price on never having sex again, how much money would I have to give you, for you to agree to never have sex again? If an injury occurs that robs you of that ability, it is like I took that much money in the form of sexual enjoyment away from you.
Except they can still have sex because its not like they're a Ken doll.. And if its that "important" to them, they'd buy the pill.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,563
9
81
If Viagra is a medical necessity because sex is a right, then are ugly people entitled to plastic surgery?

Further, if an erect penis is a requirement of sex, then by definition lesbians are not having sex either and we must provide strap-ons for them.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
Yup, it can be purchased out of pocket. The same is true for any other medication. The question is whether this particular medication deserves to be covered by insurance just as any other medication. Is the ability to have sex an essential of life, or is it a mere "perk?" If it's a perk, then you're right, it's not any more or less important than a flat screen TV, and it's a tradeoff for the individual to make of one or the other. If it is more of an essential, then it seems it should be covered by insurance in general (be it public or private).

So far as teachers go, the relevant question here is whether this drug is covered by your typical, average private insurance. I see no reason they should have less coverage than someone in the private sector. And I actually don't know if Viagra is usually covered by private insurance. I only recall that it generally was not when it was originally released. It may well be that private insurance still usually does not cover it, in which case I agree with you that the teachers shouldn't have coverage for it.

- wolf

By my creed a right is something that costs society and your neighbors nothing to provide, although it might cost something to defend that right. I believe a right is simply a freedom. And yes, sex is important, but not everything important must be covered by insurance or otherwise provided by others.

I have no idea if our insurance covered it before we went to an HSA; I don't recall it being mentioned either way, but as a very small company with limited resources I imagine not. But teachers (government school teachers anyway, not so much private school teachers) tend to have excellent health insurance. I tend to agree that their insurance should be roughly a parity with private industry (though that would be a huge step down for most districts.) I just think that when the alternative is people losing their jobs, Viagra is something that can be cut. As far as generics - don't all those drugs come with a serious risk of blindness and stuff? Don't know I'd want to try the generic Pheiser Riser!
 

SammyJr

Golden Member
Feb 27, 2008
1,708
0
0
If Viagra is a medical necessity because sex is a right, then are ugly people entitled to plastic surgery?

Further, if an erect penis is a requirement of sex, then by definition lesbians are not having sex either and we must provide strap-ons for them.

Ugly people get laid. There's an abundance of trailer park residents and 350 pound women routinely with 500 pound lovers shit out kids on a regular basis.
 

woolfe9999

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2005
7,164
0
0
By my creed a right is something that costs society and your neighbors nothing to provide, although it might cost something to defend that right. I believe a right is simply a freedom. And yes, sex is important, but not everything important must be covered by insurance or otherwise provided by others.

I have no idea if our insurance covered it before we went to an HSA; I don't recall it being mentioned either way, but as a very small company with limited resources I imagine not. But teachers (government school teachers anyway, not so much private school teachers) tend to have excellent health insurance. I tend to agree that their insurance should be roughly a parity with private industry (though that would be a huge step down for most districts.) I just think that when the alternative is people losing their jobs, Viagra is something that can be cut. As far as generics - don't all those drugs come with a serious risk of blindness and stuff? Don't know I'd want to try the generic Pheiser Riser!

For you and bobber - I never said that sex is a "right." You guys brought the word "rights" into the discussion. What is covered under a medical plan has nothing to do with what our "rights" are in a political sense.

I don't necessarily disagree with the majority here who say that Viagra shouldn't be covered for teachers. My points here are just twofold. First, that the ability to have sex is not a trivial or frivolous issue, as many people seem to assume it is in a rather kneejerk fashion. Second, teachers should get the same coverage as those with equivalent private sector jobs (i.e. private school teachers). Accordingly, whether or not teachers get coverage for this should be determined by what is in the private sector. The reason is pretty clear: giving them less coverage is the same as paying them less. Poorer benefits, like poorer wages, attract lesser quality people.

- wolf
 

sactoking

Diamond Member
Sep 24, 2007
7,506
2,702
136
Why fix the problem when we can work on the symptoms, right? I mean, why address the fact that the Viagra situation is a problem because many MDs and nurse practitioners are willing to write anyone a prescription when we can debate the merits of Viagra, and thus sex, instead?

Access to Viagra is extraordinarily easy, especially legitimate access, because other than checking to be sure you're fit enough for sex (no heart conditions) there really aren't any other side effects people worry about. It's not like 25% of people who use Viagra get aneurysms or anything.

So really, the faux rage against 'the public paying for Viagra' should be directed instead to finding which MDs and nurse practitioners are writing unnecessary prescriptions for Viagra in violation of their DEA agreements.

It's the same with medicinal marijuana laws: the problem isn't necessarily that the drug is available to those who need it, the problem is that anyone can get a prescription.
 

dfuze

Lifer
Feb 15, 2006
11,953
0
71
What I find funny is that they would rather have 12 teachers kicked to the curb so what, maybe a small handful of male teachers can get it up? It's not part of the insurance package and hasn't been in 5 years, get over it. I had to get used to having no vision coverage this year (and of course now 2 kids need glasses) so should I sue and force the carrier to cover us???
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
23,326
10,230
136
This has been an interesting discussion. I think I lurked at this site for too many years before I posted and as a defense started out snarky. I've gotten alot more intelligent replys from people I've previously sniped at than I expected.

There seemed to be a change in the flavor of posts and people (youngsters mostly) since Obama, and specifically the HC bill was in play and I just couldn't sit by and see the echo chamber circle jerk talking points go by unanswered.

I'll will try to be less sarcastic and a bit more mellow in the future but I can't guarantee it. I'm not really a hateful person except when it comes to willfull ignorance.

Kind of a dumb way to spend your day off on though. I need to get a life.

I'm tired, so I'll go away. Been fun though. See ya.

P.S. spelling Nazi's will be ignored. I think it's a mild form a dislexia or common with technically minded people.
 

MJinZ

Diamond Member
Nov 4, 2009
8,192
0
0
Why should Viagra be excluded from any insurance plan? Is erectile dysfunction not a valid medical condition? If so, then I suppose private insurers shouldn't cover it either (actually some don't), because all it does is inflate everyone else's premiums to pay for something frivolous. OTOH, if it is a valid medical condition, then public plans should cover it as much as private plans.

I think the key issue here is that people perceive Viagra as basically a "recreational" drug.

- wolf

Valid? Probably, but it is a lifestyle medical condition and not at all medically life-threatening.

Most people could probably stand to lose 50 lbs and lower their blood pressure and get their erection back.

Or use a pump or cock ring.

Valid medical conditions are differentiable by choice and threat to life. Erectile dysfunction is likely to be the former and not the latter.
 

ShawnD1

Lifer
May 24, 2003
15,987
2
81
Prior to Viagra, Cialis and whatever others are out there, men (and their women) learned to deal with it.
Remember that asshole teacher who would give detention to random people for no reason? Fact: it's because his penis didn't work.


Valid? Probably, but it is a lifestyle medical condition
We shouldn't treat people who are involved in car crashes since driving a car is lifestyle choice.


So really, the faux rage against 'the public paying for Viagra' should be directed instead to finding which MDs and nurse practitioners are writing unnecessary prescriptions for Viagra in violation of their DEA agreements.
Solution: make Viagra an OTC drug and drop all insurance coverage for it. Every man should own viagra for those times when there's 3 hours to kill and there's nothing on TV.


Who needs Viagra anyway. It's not like sex is a major cause of divorce and mental instability or anything like that. Oh wait, yes it is.
http://www.lutontoday.co.uk/545/Sex-is-biggest-cause-of.4448672.jp
Sex is the biggest cause of modern divorces, according to a new survey
by a Bedfordshire law firm.

Family law specialist Woolley & Co, which has a base in Clophill, found that sex was a factor in 43 per cent of divorce cases.
 

Hacp

Lifer
Jun 8, 2005
13,923
2
81
Erectile dysfunction? Only old people get it. And unions want us to pay because old people cant perform? Old people and unions ruining America, again.
 

CallMeJoe

Diamond Member
Jul 30, 2004
6,938
5
81
Erectile dysfunction? Only old people get it. And unions want us to pay because old people cant perform? Old people and unions ruining America, again.
How fortunate for you that your scintillating personality will ensure someone throttles you long before you ever get old.
 

zsdersw

Lifer
Oct 29, 2003
10,560
2
0
This is Milwaukee. I live 20 minutes from Milwaukee and trust me, you don't want those people reproducing.

I live in Milwaukee (St. Francis, actually), and yes.. there are many people in this town for which what you say is true. West of I43, north of I894, south of I94, and east of about 60th street. Most of the people in that region would be doing us all a favor if they were sterile.
 

Orignal Earl

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2005
8,059
55
86
How fortunate for you that your scintillating personality will ensure someone throttles you long before you ever get old.

The first time he gets a chance to get laid, he's going to be so nervous and scared he's not going to be able to get it up. Especially now after reading my post
 

CallMeJoe

Diamond Member
Jul 30, 2004
6,938
5
81
The first time he gets a chance to get laid, he's going to be so nervous and scared he's not going to be able to get it up. Especially now after reading my post
You forget that Hacp's personality is also likely his best form of birth control. Fortunately, professionals take precautions that will prevent perpetuation of his DNA.
 

ShawnD1

Lifer
May 24, 2003
15,987
2
81
You forget that Hacp's personality is also likely his best form of birth control. Fortunately, professionals take precautions that will prevent perpetuation of his DNA.

It's possible he's really funny in real life. Here's the scenario: he's sitting with his girlfriend and they are watching the news. It's a story about an evangelical preacher who stole hundreds of thousands of dollars from the church. With a totally straight face, hacp says "at least he's not a teacher or some other drain on society"
:awe:

Eventually it stops being funny when the girlfriend figures out that he's not a parody of extremist right wing ideology like Stephen Colbert is. He really does believe that, and it makes him a lot more like Bill O'Reilly.
 

MJinZ

Diamond Member
Nov 4, 2009
8,192
0
0
Remember that asshole teacher who would give detention to random people for no reason? Fact: it's because his penis didn't work.



We shouldn't treat people who are involved in car crashes since driving a car is lifestyle choice.



Solution: make Viagra an OTC drug and drop all insurance coverage for it. Every man should own viagra for those times when there's 3 hours to kill and there's nothing on TV.


Who needs Viagra anyway. It's not like sex is a major cause of divorce and mental instability or anything like that. Oh wait, yes it is.
http://www.lutontoday.co.uk/545/Sex-is-biggest-cause-of.4448672.jp

Huh? Nice reasonng there.

Driving a car does not cause car accidents. As an activity, it has a degree of risk as any other - walking, breathing, crossing the street...

Eating and becoming Obese directly causes of conditions like type 2 diabetes and erectile dysfunction.

But I really didn't need to explain it since it was pretty freaking obvious.
 

cubby1223

Lifer
May 24, 2004
13,518
42
86
Anyway, hair splitting and analogies aside, I hardly think that not being able to have sex is a minor or trivial issue. Whether sex is "recreational" or not, it is very important to people.

(1) It's not *my* duty to pick up the cost for some public sector union worker's sex life

(2) I would guess that the vast majority of Viagra users do not medically need it