Ok...thinking about trying the barefoot experience

[PricklyPete]

Ran 4 miles at a slow pace (8:30 a mile) on Saturday (usually run ~7 minute/mile pace). Thought I was only going to run a mile or two...but things felt good. No blisters...but it may have helped that I coated my feet with "body glide" before putting on the VFF's. No real tenderness and nothing crazy in my calves on Sunday, so I ran 5 miles at a 8:20 pace. Still no tenderness or blisters, but there is a little tightness around my achilles...so I'll probably take tomorrow off from running.

I know I'm supposed to take this easy and not do too much too soon...but it really just feels like my normal stride. I'm really not adjusting anything...just running the way I normally have...but I've never really been a "heel to toe'er" anyway...so I think that is why this is feeling normal to me. If I can keep this up at this slower pace for the next week or so, I'll slowly start increasing my speed and just monitor my feet/legs to make sure I don't overstress them.

So far really liking it.

 

[kamper]

I coated my feet with "body glide" before putting on the VFF's.

Lol, never heard of that before But google does come up with almost 30,000 hits for '"body glide" feet'...

 

[brikis98]

Nice. Listen very closely to your body - especially your feet & ankles - and have fun with it. Post a form check video if you have any technique concerns. Oh, and I have those exact KSO's and I think they look much better with my (gym) clothing than the all black ones.

 

[PricklyPete]

Lol, never heard of that before But google does come up with almost 30,000 hits for '"body glide" feet'...

I really think it made a difference. The stuff is available at any running store. I usually use it to coat my "nether" region before long runs to make sure I don't chaff at all. It comes in an applicator that looks like a deodorant stick. I didn't read it anywhere to do it specifically with VFF's, but I've rubbed the stuff around my feet and between toes before on long runs...so I knew it helped.

Legs are feeling fine after a good sleep last night. I can definitely feel that I've been doing something more than my normal running...but it all just feels like normal soreness/muscle development.

On a side note, the VFF's feel more substantial than I had initially anticipated. Certainly lighter than shoes and not much cushion, but my feet don't feel "barefoot" to the degree that I was originally expecting. I'm sure if I was running on rocky terrain, I'd feel otherwise.

 

[Capt Caveman]

On a side note, the VFF's feel more substantial than I had initially anticipated. Certainly lighter than shoes and not much cushion, but my feet don't feel "barefoot" to the degree that I was originally expecting. I'm sure if I was running on rocky terrain, I'd feel otherwise.

Any BFR enthusiast will tell you that running in VFFs is not BFR but minimalist running.

 

[PricklyPete]

Any BFR enthusiast will tell you that running in VFFs is not BFR but minimalist running.

Yes, I've been seeing that on the running world forums...and I would agree with them. Not sure I'm ready to go running around on city streets without VFF's though...they seem minimalist enough.

 

[kamper]

Oh, I've seen body glide before, just coating your feet with it sounded funny

Do you have to do something to wash it off when you get back before walking around the house? (Off your feet that is, not your nether regions, I don't wanna know about that)

 

[PricklyPete]

Nice. Listen very closely to your body - especially your feet & ankles - and have fun with it. Post a form check video if you have any technique concerns. Oh, and I have those exact KSO's and I think they look much better with my (gym) clothing than the all black ones.

No worries...I definitely listen to my body. I'm too old to push through any type of injury. If I feel anything that seems to be more than normal soreness I'll address with rest or adjustments to how I run if needed.

I'm taking today off from exercising and tomorrow I'm going to just do some biking as my cardio. I'll pick running back up on Wednesday and see how things go.

 

[PricklyPete]

Oh, I've seen body glide before, just coating your feet with it sounded funny

Do you have to do something to wash it off when you get back before walking around the house? (Off your feet that is, not your nether regions, I don't wanna know about that)

I didn't wash my feet at all...although my wife would probably tell me to if I brought to her attention that I was doing it. I didn't leave grease marks anywhere that I could see though. Either way, the time between taking off my VFF's and taking a shower is pretty negligible...so the damage would be minimal.

And when I said "coat"...I may have been over exaggerating...I really just ran the stick around and under my foot once...maybe running over the a couple of places like my toes and sole a couple of times.

On a side note, it was interesting to feel the heat that was generated under the soles of my feet around the 3-5 mile mark. You could definitely feel the heat.

 

[PricklyPete]

Ok...took yesterday off from running and I walked 1 mile this morning and rode a bike for ~30 minutes today. Feet/Legs still feel great. Plan on running 4-5 miles tomorrow at an ~8 minute pace.

 

[PricklyPete]

Ran 6 miles this morning at an 8min/mile pace. Legs/ankles/feet still feeling good. I'll be taking tomorrow off in honor of Cinco de Mayo...but will resume on Friday...we'll see how my body is feeling on Friday...maybe just biking...or a mix...or just running if I feel particularly good.

 

[kamper]

What surfaces are you running on?

And keep up the log, it's interesting to read

 

[PricklyPete]

What surfaces are you running on?

And keep up the log, it's interesting to read

So far it has been treadmill. That will change this weekend. I'll definitely keep up the log...it will keep me honest on listening to my body to make sure i don't overdo it.

 

[PricklyPete]

Another 6 miles this morning at a 8min/mile pace. Still on the treadmill, but no "body glide". Noticed they are starting to smell a bit more...so after my run tomorrow I'm going to soak them in some water/bleach and let them dry through Sunday (I'll be mtn biking on Sunday if the weather holds. Tomorrow will be my first outdoor run...it will be on a paved path in one the local paths...a little over 5.5 miles. We'll see how that goes. I may re-apply body glide tomorrow just to make sure.

 

[PricklyPete]

Ended up tacking the weekend off from running as I felt a little stiffness in my calves/heel/arches. Instead went mtn biking all weekend. Will pick VFF running up tomorrow morning.

 

[PricklyPete]

After 4 days off from running...ran 5 miles this morning. Feet still feeling good...but my left leg is definitely sore...I think it is starting in my left calve. Will have to see if this continues.

 

[PricklyPete]

Ok...so I've been running "minimalist" regularly for a month now and have finally gotten my first major injury. I don't remember a specific time where this injury occurred, so I can't attribute it directly to running, but I have a pain on the top of my foot...toward the front. Seems like a strained tendon or stress fracture in the bones in that region...honestly not sure. I'm going to try my best to lay off the foot for the next couple of weeks and see how the foot does. If it still feels iffy, I'm going to head to the doctor to get it looked at.

Still enjoying the minimalist running, but hoping this injury is not a trend.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Sucks to hear about the injury. I've been dealing with achilles tendonosis for almost a year.

The cause might have been trying to transition into minimalist running too quickly. Over at the rw forums, someone posted an article by a doctor that mentioned the recent high number injuries that people have been coming in for due to bfr.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Ok...so I've been running "minimalist" regularly for a month now and have finally gotten my first major injury. I don't remember a specific time where this injury occurred, so I can't attribute it directly to running, but I have a pain on the top of my foot...toward the front. Seems like a strained tendon or stress fracture in the bones in that region...honestly not sure. I'm going to try my best to lay off the foot for the next couple of weeks and see how the foot does. If it still feels iffy, I'm going to head to the doctor to get it looked at.

Still enjoying the minimalist running, but hoping this injury is not a trend.

It sounds likely to be a stress fracture, especially with the mileage you're putting in. What kinds of surfaces are you running on regularly? VFFs are good, but the human foot isn't designed to run on asphalt for many miles. If you could find a large park (we have a "Mile Square Park") that you can run on the grass for the mostpart, that might help. You could also run at a nearby beach, if that's an option. I don't suggest running in VFFs for as much mileage as you do. Yeah, the human foot is amazing and barefoot running can improve running form, but concrete and asphalt weren't around before. Stress injuries are definitely one of the largest downsides to the VFFs and running around on the streets.

 

[PricklyPete]

Sucks to here about the injury. I've been dealing with achilles tendonosis for almost a year.

The cause might have been trying to transition into minimalist running too quickly. Over at the rw forums, someone posted an article by doctor that mentioned the recent high number injuries that people have been coming in for due to bfr.

Very possible. For the most part, the running has felt very good and the only "pain" I had was just normal new muscle pain from where I was using my calves more than in the past.

 

[PricklyPete]

It sounds likely to be a stress fracture, especially with the mileage you're putting in. What kinds of surfaces are you running on regularly? VFFs are good, but the human foot isn't designed to run on asphalt for many miles. If you could find a large park (we have a "Mile Square Park") that you can run on the grass for the mostpart, that might help. You could also run at a nearby beach, if that's an option. I don't suggest running in VFFs for as much mileage as you do. Yeah, the human foot is amazing and barefoot running can improve running form, but concrete and asphalt weren't around before. Stress injuries are definitely one of the largest downsides to the VFFs and running around on the streets.

I would say so far 60% of my time has been on treadmill, 30% on pavement of some kind (or dense running path) and 10% on grass.

As I mentioned earlier, so far the only "pain" I had was normal muscle growth pain....using certain muscles more than I'm accustomed to...but that seemed fine.

You may very well be right that I'm expecting too much out of my feet. I'm going to see how this heals up...give it a couple of weeks of no running...concetrate biking. I'll then make a call on whether I want to lay off on it more, start running VFF's again, or maybe step up to a slightly more padded solution like Nike Free or Newtons.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

I would say so far 60% of my time has been on treadmill, 30% on pavement of some kind (or dense running path) and 10% on grass.

As I mentioned earlier, so far the only "pain" I had was normal muscle growth pain....using certain muscles more than I'm accustomed to...but that seemed fine.

You may very well be right that I'm expecting too much out of my feet. I'm going to see how this heals up...give it a couple of weeks of no running...concetrate biking. I'll then make a call on whether I want to lay off on it more, start running VFF's again, or maybe step up to a slightly more padded solution like Nike Free or Newtons.

Yeah. I think VFFs are great for stressing good mid/front foot strike, correcting some biomechanics issues, weightlifting, and increasing bone density. For me, I used them dominantly for weightlifting, sprints, and runs below 3 miles. I never had any problems. While taking my biomechanics class, I have noticed some new issues with barefoot running and longer distances. Firstly, the rate of force transduction into the foot and lower leg is exceedingly fast in hard materials with no give. Secondly, with longer runs, the musculature in your feet begin to fatigue. This fatigue, although you may not be aware of it, can result in greater forces being delivered to the phalanges and metatarsals. The increased rate of force transfer with no elastic resistance from muscles increases the risk of stress fractures. Don't get me wrong, I love them. I just feel like they're a tool that should not be used for every running bout, especially if you're putting in long workouts. If you lived in a place with soft ground for miles and miles around, then these are amazing. Living in America or most modern countries, that's not very common.

On another note, I hope your injury heals quickly. I'm just getting over tendinitis in my hip flexor (again, damnit) and I know how frustrating it is. Definitely spend your time biking and then ease your way into some light elliptical exercise. If it feels ok to walk on, give it 3-4 more days and slowly start putting some time in on the elliptical. I'd say start with 3-5min, then finish the rest of your time with the bike. Work your way up 30s to 1min per day and you'll be running in no time.

 

[brikis98]

It sounds likely to be a stress fracture, especially with the mileage you're putting in. What kinds of surfaces are you running on regularly? VFFs are good, but the human foot isn't designed to run on asphalt for many miles. If you could find a large park (we have a "Mile Square Park") that you can run on the grass for the mostpart, that might help. You could also run at a nearby beach, if that's an option. I don't suggest running in VFFs for as much mileage as you do. Yeah, the human foot is amazing and barefoot running can improve running form, but concrete and asphalt weren't around before. Stress injuries are definitely one of the largest downsides to the VFFs and running around on the streets.

I have to disagree with this. Concrete and asphalt may be recent inventions, but there have been plenty of hard surfaces through out history to run on. For example, in Born to Run, the Tarahumara Indians run ultra marathon distances in sandals over every type of treacherous terrain. Moreover, studies have shown that the hardness of the ground does not increase the forces on the joints/tissues. In fact, the human body seems to naturally adapt the hardness of the footstrike to the hardness of the surface, so you slam your feet harder on grass than on concrete, nullifying most of the difference.

It sucks that the OP is suffering an injury though. There are multiple possible reasons:

1. Too much mileage too quickly. It takes a long time for the feet to adapt to barefoot style running. It looks like you started doing 4-8 miles very quickly, which is WAY more than recommended. I ran in VFFs for several months before doing anything over a 5k.

2. Bad technique. Check out books/tutorials/classes on POSE. Post a video for a form check.

3. Random accident. Every active person knows that injuries sometimes just happen. Running actually has an extremely high injury rate, with studies showing 60-80% of runners being injured every single year. In theory, barefoot style should reduce this rate, but nothing will reduce it anywhere close to 0%.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

I have to disagree with this. Concrete and asphalt may be recent inventions, but there have been plenty of hard surfaces through out history to run on. For example, in Born to Run, the Tarahumara Indians run ultra marathon distances in sandals over every type of treacherous terrain. Moreover, studies have shown that the hardness of the ground does not increase the forces on the joints/tissues. In fact, the human body seems to naturally adapt the hardness of the footstrike to the hardness of the surface, so you slam your feet harder on grass than on concrete, nullifying most of the difference.

I haven't read these studies, but there are a few points that I'd bring up. It may very well be that ground hardness does not modify force on joints. However, research like this is frequently done in short bouts. If a runner was to complete runs on 6 different terrains, they would likely spend less than 5 minutes collecting data for each terrain. The problem with that is that fatigue is the negative aspect of barefoot running. If the terrains were measured under these conditions, they would not be applicable to real life bare foot running. And just to address the Indians: many humans throughout history have completed amazing feats even though their anatomy limited them. The Jews ran hundreds of miles starved, barefoot, and freezing. Does that mean we should train like that? No, not at all. Would I say that the Tarahumara Indians had a high incidence of stress fractures and bone spurs? Oh, you better believe it. We're trying to find a balance for optimal proprioception, form, and efficiency. I don't feel like running barefoot on very hard surfaces allows for that.

As you fatigue, you cannot resist the forces resulting from your foot strike. Because of this, more force is transferred to bones in the foot. If this happens repeatedly, as would occur in someone doing frequent long distance in VFFs, then the result is a stress fracture.

On top of that, you mention that the research says there is no extra force on joints. Firstly, what joints were measured? If it was the knee, talocrural, and hip joint, then that is to be expected. However, rate of force transduction through the foot (through all the small tarsal-metatarsal, metatarsal-phalanx, and other bony articulations) is much greater. Overall, force is the same, but rate of force transfer is likely to be different (which can significantly affect bone structure). Secondly, do you know the duration each terrain was measured?

I've actually been thinking about this a lot lately. My biomechanics professor (Dr. Keith Williams) has recently started talking about barefoot running as well. He has many years of research in the field of biomechanics, specifically with reference to running, foot strike, and form. He has been bringing up some points that I've thought about personally. I'll see if he has some research articles I can bring up.

 

[PricklyPete]

It sucks that the OP is suffering an injury though. There are multiple possible reasons:

1. Too much mileage too quickly. It takes a long time for the feet to adapt to barefoot style running. It looks like you started doing 4-8 miles very quickly, which is WAY more than recommended. I ran in VFFs for several months before doing anything over a 5k.

This is most likely the reason if the injury is related at all to my switching between shod and minimalist running. I read here and other places plenty that I should take it slower...but didn't. I'm used to running way more miles than I've been running...and it was really hard for me to run just a little.

2. Bad technique. Check out books/tutorials/classes on POSE. Post a video for a form check.

I have looked into POSE and I think my form is pretty good. When the fracture heals...I'll try to get around to posting a form video.

3. Random accident. Every active person knows that injuries sometimes just happen. Running actually has an extremely high injury rate, with studies showing 60-80% of runners being injured every single year. In theory, barefoot style should reduce this rate, but nothing will reduce it anywhere close to 0%.

This is also very likely as well. The pain seems very similar to the pain I would sometimes get while playing soccer. Usually it would happen when I was attempting to kick the ball at the same time someone else was.

I haven't given up on minimalist running...just jotting down my experience so far.