Ok...thinking about trying the barefoot experience

[PricklyPete]

So I don't have any really long runs to train for until the fall, so I'm thinking about taking the plunge and attempting the "barefoot" running concept.

So for all of you that have Vibram FiveFingers...which models do you like and which would you buy next if you were to purchase some today? Looking over the website, I'm thinking either the FiveFingers KSO or the FiveFingers Sprint. I will be using these for running....I'd like to get up to 10+ miles (and maybe even a marathon in the fall if I really feel this is working for me).

I know I should not immediately start running the distances that I'm used to running in my shoes. I feel like I have two options:

1) Slowly build up in the FiveFingers and supplement with running in my regular shoes

or

2) Slowly build up in the FiveFingers and supplement by biking/eliptical

I'm thinking I should go with option #2 above to make sure that I don't confuse my running technique moving between the two shoes...any thoughts?

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

Sprint are the ones "designed" for running, but the KSO also are good.

You should definitely start slow, and I personally like option 1. IMO, supplementing with running normally would make more sense if you are running distances.

Also, you may want to look at the Nike Free 3.0 or some other thin soled shoes. The Vibrams are good, but they are not the only option out there. Also, from my experience it's hard to find them retail which you have to do so you get fitted correctly.

Finally, there was a good article in a recent magazine (not runners world, but runners something) that discusses barefoot running over like 4 pages. Fairly good getting started article, and was at Borders for like $5.

PS, as a side note kind of on this subject if you enjoy reading books, then pick up "Born to Run" by Christopher McDougall (http://www.amazon.com/Born-Run-Hidde...2292883&sr=8-1). Very good read, and discusses many things about barefoot running. Not so much a training book, but a very good read that definitely is pro-barefoot/thin sole running.

 

[katank]

A vote for the KSO. I went w/ Sprint version and had problems w/ pebbles etc. creeping in.

As for option 1, it's fine. Just try and maintain POSE form in both.

What kind of regular shoe do you use? Just so the transition isn't as abrupt between VFFs and other shoe, I'd recommend a relatively thin soled shoe like Chucks rather than cushiony running shoes.

 

[PricklyPete]

PS, as a side note kind of on this subject if you enjoy reading books, then pick up "Born to Run" by Christopher McDougall (http://www.amazon.com/Born-Run-Hidde...2292883&sr=8-1). Very good read, and discusses many things about barefoot running. Not so much a training book, but a very good read that definitely is pro-barefoot/thin sole running.

I actually started reading this last week and I'll admit is part of the reason I'm thinking about moving forward on it. I am definitely going to do some more research before I jump in full monty...but I'd like to do it this spring/summer before I get back to heavy marathon training for the fall. If I don't like it...I'll just go back to my running shoes.

 

[PricklyPete]

A vote for the KSO. I went w/ Sprint version and had problems w/ pebbles etc. creeping in.

As for option 1, it's fine. Just try and maintain POSE form in both.

What kind of regular shoe do you use? Just so the transition isn't as abrupt between VFFs and other shoe, I'd recommend a relatively thin soled shoe like Chucks rather than cushiony running shoes.

I've been wearing fairly light shoes like the Mizuno Waverunners and more recently some Nike's...but honestly I don't remember the exact model. I go to the running store...try on like 15+ shoes and buy the ones I feel fit my foot the best. Anyway, these were even lighter than the Mizunos and seemed to have less cushion. I may take a look at those Nike Free as previously mentioned.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

I've used the KSOs for running (both sprints and long-distance). I would suggest doing #1. You can run in your VFFs AND your running shoes with no problems. The thing is that you've got to make sure you have front foot strike. If you're still landing on your heels in your running shoes and you can't help it, then #2 is a good option. However, running in both VFFs and running shoes might help you get the front foot strike technique down. That's what I did when I was working into my KSOs. "Barefoot" running helped both my barefoot and my shoed running form. I bet it could do that for you too.

 

[brikis98]

So for all of you that have Vibram FiveFingers...which models do you like and which would you buy next if you were to purchase some today? Looking over the website, I'm thinking either the FiveFingers KSO or the FiveFingers Sprint. I will be using these for running....I'd like to get up to 10+ miles (and maybe even a marathon in the fall if I really feel this is working for me).

I found the KSO's much more comfortable - especially in terms of the location of the velcro strap - and if you do any trail running, the mesh on top is essential for keeping little rocks out of the shoe. Just make sure to buy them in store so you can try them on - I wear a very different size for VFFs than for normal sneakers & shoes.

I know I should not immediately start running the distances that I'm used to running in my shoes.

Start VERY gradually. I cannot emphasize this enough. Even if you are a strong runner, it takes a long time for your feet, ankles, and technique to adjust to a totally new style of running. It'll probably take 1-2 months before you feel "normal" in VFFs and can can handle your typical mileage; it'll probably take quite a bit longer to feel "efficient". If you rush it, you'll only slow yourself down by having to constantly battle blisters, sore calves and possibly even injuries.

I feel like I have two options:

1) Slowly build up in the FiveFingers and supplement with running in my regular shoes

or

2) Slowly build up in the FiveFingers and supplement by biking/eliptical

Either one will work, but my personal preference would be #2. Padded sneakers let you get away with all sorts of form errors and would likely slow down the transition to proper barefoot running style. Sticking with VFFs the whole time will probably let you learn quicker, as they are fairly unforgiving, giving you the instant feedback of pain/discomfort when you run incorrectly.

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

Either one will work, but my personal preference would be #2. Padded sneakers let you get away with all sorts of form errors and would likely slow down the transition to proper barefoot running style. Sticking with VFFs the whole time will probably let you learn quicker, as they are fairly unforgiving, giving you the instant feedback of pain/discomfort when you run incorrectly.

Valid point.

The only reason I like the first option better is because the OP mentioned maybe a full marathon in the fall. If the OP wants to do a race in the fall, then going entirely to barefoot is going to hurt training schedule. If OP is okay just maybe doing a half in the fall, then it would be do-able to run only in VFF's and do eliptical/bicycle training. That is of course IMO, and OP you should do what you're comfortable with. Do not rush anything though. If you have never done a marathon, and are trying to train for it currently, then you will need to maintain training while you do the barefoot stuff (depending on when the marathon would be, as I personally want to give myself ~6 months to train minimum if I don't run regularly currently).

Short version of what I just said: figure out what works best for your body and your goals. Do not push yourself to run a marathon in the fall if you're not ready to, and ease into barefoot running.

 

[PricklyPete]

Thanks for all the input guys. I'll definitely be buying these from a local store...the KSO's sound like the ones for me as I definitley plan on doing some trail running with these as well.

I know we had a recent thread on this, but what is the consensus on using socks? Does it really harm the barefoot experience? I already have a few pairs of Ininji socks that I've used with my conventional sneakers.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Thanks for all the input guys. I'll definitely be buying these from a local store...the KSO's sound like the ones for me as I definitley plan on doing some trail running with these as well.

I know we had a recent thread on this, but what is the consensus on using socks? Does it really harm the barefoot experience? I already have a few pairs of Ininji socks that I've used with my conventional sneakers.

I feel VFFs, like all shoes, won't be an exact fit. Because of this, you may find some wear spots that cause blisters. It might be good to go sockless at first for the lower distances because those wear spots can show form issues. However, if you get more familiar with the VFFs and you still blister, socks might be beneficial, especially for longer distances. I would never run 5+ miles in my VFFs without socks. My feet would hate me.

 

[PricklyPete]

I feel VFFs, like all shoes, won't be an exact fit. Because of this, you may find some wear spots that cause blisters. It might be good to go sockless at first for the lower distances because those wear spots can show form issues. However, if you get more familiar with the VFFs and you still blister, socks might be beneficial, especially for longer distances. I would never run 5+ miles in my VFFs without socks. My feet would hate me.

Thanks!

What do you do to reduce the "smell" affect? Do you actually wash the VFF's or use any kind of spray?

 

[surfsatwerk]

Thanks!

What do you do to reduce the "smell" affect? Do you actually wash the VFF's or use any kind of spray?

I rinse mine occasionally in water with a little bleach in it.

 

[brikis98]

What do you do to reduce the "smell" affect? Do you actually wash the VFF's or use any kind of spray?

Toss them in the washing machine periodically and then let them air dry. This should work 99% of the time. If they get seriously funky - mine did after I jogged through mud and forgot to wash them after - soak them in something like oxy-clean for a while and then toss in the wash.

 

[allies]

I too am thinking about picking up some VFFs after my marathon next weekend.

HOWEVER, my right leg is ~1.5 cm shorter than my left. This leads to more impact on my right leg than left. I have a heel lift in my right shoe, and when I wear my trainers I am a midfoot striker.

When I go barefoot for frisbee and the like my plantar fasciitis flares up - probably due to the increased strain on the plantar fascia. Do people feel like this muscle will eventually adapt and not be painful, or am just not a good candidate for VFFs...?

 

[SociallyChallenged]

I too am thinking about picking up some VFFs after my marathon next weekend.

HOWEVER, my right leg is ~1.5 cm shorter than my left. This leads to more impact on my right leg than left. I have a heel lift in my right shoe, and when I wear my trainers I am a midfoot striker.

When I go barefoot for frisbee and the like my plantar fasciitis flares up - probably due to the increased strain on the plantar fascia. Do people feel like this muscle will eventually adapt and not be painful, or am just not a good candidate for VFFs...?

I'd consult a sports med doctor or sports physical therapist to answer that question for you. If you have trouble just walking around barefoot, it might not be for you. Since you have skewed biomechanics, I'd talk to a professional before trying running in VFFs. With plantar fasciitis, I wouldn't risk using VFFs tbh. If you can correct your form in running shoes (change from heel strike to front/mid foot strike), then that will likely be the best course of action.

 

[TheUnk]

Good luck, I've decided barefoot is the way to go too.

I started out the C25K barefoot (on a treadmill) but eventually started wearing shoes because my soles started getting sore as I went faster. Just over a week ago my knees started to hurt after my runs.. I'm starting to think it was the switch to shoes as when I did a run last week barefoot - knees felt fine.. I'll just have to stick through it until my soles toughen up I guess (I can't find VFFs anywhere in my size)

Definately take it slow to start though, my calves were so sore the next day I could barely walk lol. It's been 5 days now, still too sore to run ><

 

[Howard]

Walk on the sidewalk. Barring infection, your soles will toughen up in no time flat.

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

Just found this while surfing the net before work

http://sportsci.org/jour/0103/mw.htm

 

[brikis98]

Just found this while surfing the net before work

http://sportsci.org/jour/0103/mw.htm

Here are several more for your reading pleasure:

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE60Q6FA20100127?type=sportsNews
http://nymag.com/health/features/46213/
http://www.coachr.org/barefoot_running.htm
http://www.barefootrunner.com/2009/03/do-running-shoes-cause-injuries/
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/11/041123163757.htm
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/mos...-Are-expensive-running-shoes-waste-money.html

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Here are several more for your reading pleasure:

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE60Q6FA20100127?type=sportsNews
http://nymag.com/health/features/46213/
http://www.coachr.org/barefoot_running.htm
http://www.barefootrunner.com/2009/03/do-running-shoes-cause-injuries/
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/11/041123163757.htm
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/mos...-Are-expensive-running-shoes-waste-money.html

Yep, there's some good empirical evidence for barefoot running. I remember Harvard (or was it Stanford?) had a full website on barefoot running, it's effects, etc. Both front foot-strike and mid foot-strike are much better opposed to heel strike. Pretty neat that we're just going back to the basic.

 

[PricklyPete]

Thanks for all the reading and advice. I'm hoping to do some shopping this weekend for a pair of VFF's.

 

[skace]

I ran barefoot both Sat and Sun. But Sat I spent several hours splitting logs also. When I went to walk away, my calves were so sore and I remember thinking, hmm why would splitting logs burn my calves? It took awhile for it to click that it was the barefoot running kicking my ass. Calves are still sore today.

I like it though, feels like there's more to the exercise running barefoot than there is shoed.

 

[StageLeft]

I have sprint because they were cheap but KSO do "keep stuff out" and if you get black look a bit less gay (let's be honest VFF look ridiculous enough as it is).

I know there are varying opinions but I'd strongly recommend your option "1) Slowly build up in the FiveFingers and supplement with running in my regular shoes"

Depending on how your body responds, particularly the arches of your feet or the "top of foot pain" that many get, if you are only running in fingers, even with reduced miles, I think you have a great chance of overdoing it, and feet can acclimate only very slowly.

When I run in VFF, which are all I ran in at the end of last year, I did the forefoot or midfoot strike, but this is not reasonable to run like that in typical running shoes with a high heel. It is decidedly unnatural. I know some do it and I've tried it, but it's frankly the wrong way to run if you're in a conventional running shoe. You can limit the harshness with which your heel hits of course.

It took me two months last year before I could run even 3-4 miles without my feet being red and tender from a run in the VFF. I didn't run all winter and tried again a week back at a lower speed and got through 3 miles quite easily because I was landing gently and not trying to point my toes down as much.

Don't bother with socks in VFF.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Another good read - Heel vs. Midfoot vs. Forefoot: How do elite runners land?

In this and other articles on their blog addressing Running Technique, they state that:

--a study conducted of elite runners in a 2004 HM race in Japan (75&#37; were heel strikers and only 1% were forefoot strikers) and they try to relate the findings to sub-elite runners.

--there is "no evidence that heel strikers are more injury prone" than midfoot strikers, but consciously altering footstrike does increase the risk of injury.

--there is "no evidence that midfoot runners are faster or perfrom better than heel-strikers", but consciously altering running mechanics reduces running economy.

--footstrike moves naturally from heel to midfoot to forefoot as you run faster.

--where your feet land relative to your body is more important than how it lands.

Thanks for all the reading and advice. I'm hoping to do some shopping this weekend for a pair of VFF's.

Just remember, it's not for everyone. Allies is a perfect example. You will also put a considerable amount of strain on your achilles which has caused me to battle with achilles tendonosis for almost a year.

fwiw - there are a number of elite runners that are heel strikers Kara Goucher, Ryan Hall, Deena Kastor(Bronze in the Olympic Marathon and American record holder in the Marathon and Half-Marathon) and Meb Keflezighi(Silver in the Olympic Marathon and First place in the NYC Marathon).

When I run in VFF, which are all I ran in at the end of last year, I did the forefoot or midfoot strike, but this is not reasonable to run like that in typical running shoes with a high heel. It is decidedly unnatural. I know some do it and I've tried it, but it's frankly the wrong way to run if you're in a conventional running shoe. You can limit the harshness with which your heel hits of course.

This is not true b/c I do it. With a flexible/minimalistic running shoe, running fore/midfoot without heel striking is not an issue. Watch a marathon.

 

[brikis98]

Another good read - Heel vs. Midfoot vs. Forefoot: How do elite runners land?

In this and other articles on their blog addressing Running Technique, they state that:

--a study conducted of elite runners in a 2004 HM race in Japan (75&#37; were heel strikers and only 1% were forefoot strikers) and they try to relate the findings to sub-elite runners.

Wait, an article looked at people who run in shoes - which are designed for heel striking - and determined that most of them heel strike? What does that show exactly? If the same study looked at barefoot runners, the exact opposite trend would show up - in fact, I doubt there would be ANY heel striking barefoot runners. All this study points out is that shoes are the norm in our society and that most people use shoes in the way they are designed. It does not show whether this design prevents injury, make you faster, or anything else.

--there is "no evidence that heel strikers are more injury prone" than midfoot strikers, but consciously altering footstrike does increase the risk of injury.

--there is "no evidence that midfoot runners are faster or perfrom better than heel-strikers", but consciously altering running mechanics reduces running economy.

I see absolutely no proof cited of these claims in that article. Sounds like total conjecture on the author's behalf.