ok....now I understand why the rest of the world hates us

[minus1972]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Point out one example in that article where the Times "flamingly liberal" stripes show.

The part that minus1972 emphasized is a perfect example. They are blatantly lying when they say that there is no evidence for the administration's assertions.

ZV

that's the part that I emphasized.....

 

[minus1972]

bump for the after-school crowd 😉

 

[jahawkin]

Originally posted by: minus1972

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Point out one example in that article where the Times "flamingly liberal" stripes show.

The part that minus1972 emphasized is a perfect example. They are blatantly lying when they say that there is no evidence for the administration's assertions.

ZV

that's the part that I emphasized.....

Ok, how has Iraq thwarted inspection under the new inspections regime??

 

[308nato]

Originally posted by: jahawkin

Originally posted by: minus1972

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Point out one example in that article where the Times "flamingly liberal" stripes show.

The part that minus1972 emphasized is a perfect example. They are blatantly lying when they say that there is no evidence for the administration's assertions.

ZV

that's the part that I emphasized.....

Ok, how has Iraq thwarted inspection under the new inspections regime??

Items they declared in 92 and 93 are no longer declared. But, they don't have them any more. They don't remember having them but are sure they were destroyed.

3080 tons of mustard gas
2200 gallons of anthrax spores
5300 gallons of botulism toxin
520 gallons of aflatoxin
3.9 tons of VX gas
812 tons of sarin

This is only what they declared after the Gulf War. I'm sure they were honest.

They delivery hardware has been "misplaced" as well.

 

[Moonbeam]

What is the shelf life of those agents?

 

[jahawkin]

Originally posted by: 308nato

Originally posted by: jahawkin

Originally posted by: minus1972

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Point out one example in that article where the Times "flamingly liberal" stripes show.

The part that minus1972 emphasized is a perfect example. They are blatantly lying when they say that there is no evidence for the administration's assertions.

ZV

that's the part that I emphasized.....

Ok, how has Iraq thwarted inspection under the new inspections regime??

Items they declared in 92 and 93 are no longer declared. But, they don't have them any more. They don't remember having them but are sure they were destroyed.

3080 tons of mustard gas
2200 gallons of anthrax spores
5300 gallons of botulism toxin
520 gallons of aflatoxin
3.9 tons of VX gas
812 tons of sarin

This is only what they declared after the Gulf War. I'm sure they were honest.

They delivery hardware has been "misplaced" as well.

So how is that thwarting inspections??

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: jahawkin

Originally posted by: 308nato

Originally posted by: jahawkin

Originally posted by: minus1972

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Point out one example in that article where the Times "flamingly liberal" stripes show.

The part that minus1972 emphasized is a perfect example. They are blatantly lying when they say that there is no evidence for the administration's assertions.

ZV

that's the part that I emphasized.....

Ok, how has Iraq thwarted inspection under the new inspections regime??

Items they declared in 92 and 93 are no longer declared. But, they don't have them any more. They don't remember having them but are sure they were destroyed.

3080 tons of mustard gas
2200 gallons of anthrax spores
5300 gallons of botulism toxin
520 gallons of aflatoxin
3.9 tons of VX gas
812 tons of sarin

This is only what they declared after the Gulf War. I'm sure they were honest.

They delivery hardware has been "misplaced" as well.

So how is that thwarting inspections??

Because the inspectors were supposed to go to Iraq and have Iraq PROVE what has happened to items such as the ones listed above. Not the other way around. They have delayed, stalled, said it was listed in their weapons declaration (which it wasn't), and other various delaying tactics. Saddam knows that the more he plays for time, the better chance he has of getting world opinion against the U.S..

 

[jahawkin]

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: jahawkin

Originally posted by: 308nato

Originally posted by: jahawkin

Originally posted by: minus1972

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Point out one example in that article where the Times "flamingly liberal" stripes show.

The part that minus1972 emphasized is a perfect example. They are blatantly lying when they say that there is no evidence for the administration's assertions.

ZV

that's the part that I emphasized.....

Ok, how has Iraq thwarted inspection under the new inspections regime??

Items they declared in 92 and 93 are no longer declared. But, they don't have them any more. They don't remember having them but are sure they were destroyed.

3080 tons of mustard gas
2200 gallons of anthrax spores
5300 gallons of botulism toxin
520 gallons of aflatoxin
3.9 tons of VX gas
812 tons of sarin

This is only what they declared after the Gulf War. I'm sure they were honest.

They delivery hardware has been "misplaced" as well.

So how is that thwarting inspections??

Because the inspectors were supposed to go to Iraq and have Iraq PROVE what has happened to items such as the ones listed above. Not the other way around. They have delayed, stalled, said it was listed in their weapons declaration (which it wasn't), and other various delaying tactics. Saddam knows that the more he plays for time, the better chance he has of getting world opinion against the U.S..

But this NY Times piece is supposed to be a liberal hack job.

The administration asserts, without offering evidence, that Iraq has thwarted inspectors by hiding the weapons.

How is this statement wrong?? Where are the hidden Iraqi weapons??

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: jahawkin

The administration asserts, without offering evidence, that Iraq has thwarted inspectors by hiding the weapons.

How is this statement wrong?? Where are the hidden Iraqi weapons??

Read

 

[yellowperil]

Compare the U.S.-Iraq situation to the American ideals of the criminal justice system.

Criminal justice - burden of proof on the prosecution, presumption of innocence.
U.S.-Iraq - burden of proof on the 'defendant', presumption of guilt.

It is crazy how badly Bush wants to jump the 'smoking gun'. When the inspectors don't find what they're looking for, what do they report? Not "we still haven't found the evidence"; instead, "this provides further proof that Iraq is hiding their weapons and thus is in material breach." Any rational thinking person would realize this is a logical fallacy; absence of proof doesn't prove anything...except, of course that you can't find any proof at the moment.

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: yellowperil
Compare the U.S.-Iraq situation to the American ideals of the criminal justice system.

Criminal justice - burden of proof on the prosecution, presumption of innocence.
U.S.-Iraq - burden of proof on the 'defendant', presumption of guilt.

It is crazy how badly Bush wants to jump the 'smoking gun'. When the inspectors don't find what they're looking for, what do they report? Not "we still haven't found the evidence"; instead, "this provides further proof that Iraq is hiding their weapons and thus is in material breach." Any rational thinking person would realize this is a logical fallacy; absence of proof doesn't prove anything...except, of course that you can't find any proof at the moment.

All the previous resolutions were created with the burden of proof on the inspectors. The current resolution was drafted in accordance with the UN. They already have previous proof of Iraq possessing WMDs. Iraq needs to prove that they have destroyed their weapons in accordance with all the previous resolutions.

The UN needs to show it has some cajones and enforce the resolutions, however.

 

[Bluga]

The Bush doctrine is unAmerican and anti-American. It goes against everything this country has ever stood for and everything that has made us loved around the world. The evil axis is the President and his Bush League compatriots.

Well said. 🙂

 

[jahawkin]

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: jahawkin

The administration asserts, without offering evidence, that Iraq has thwarted inspectors by hiding the weapons.

How is this statement wrong?? Where are the hidden Iraqi weapons??

Read

Again, where are the hidden weapons??

 

[hagbard]

Originally posted by: Bluga

The Bush doctrine is unAmerican and anti-American. It goes against everything this country has ever stood for and everything that has made us loved around the world. The evil axis is the President and his Bush League compatriots.

Well said. 🙂

Sad but true.

 

[alexruiz]

Originally posted by: hagbard

Originally posted by: Bluga

The Bush doctrine is unAmerican and anti-American. It goes against everything this country has ever stood for and everything that has made us loved around the world. The evil axis is the President and his Bush League compatriots.

Well said. 🙂

Sad but true.

Another vote!!!

Come on friends, it is not that difficult to be willing to think in the middle of the fence. I said it before, being patriotic is great, but supporting blindly what your goverment says is NOT patriotism, it is fanatism. Please try to give the doubt a chance, please try to have the "what if really the motives are others....?"

 

[darren]

Originally posted by: alexruiz

Originally posted by: hagbard

Originally posted by: Bluga

The Bush doctrine is unAmerican and anti-American. It goes against everything this country has ever stood for and everything that has made us loved around the world. The evil axis is the President and his Bush League compatriots.

Well said. 🙂

Sad but true.

Another vote!!!

Come on friends, it is not that difficult to be willing to think in the middle of the fence. I said it before, being patriotic is great, but supporting blindly what your goverment says is NOT patriotism, it is fanatism. Please try to give the doubt a chance, please try to have the "what if really the motives are others....?"

"dissension is american"
another vote here.

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: jahawkin

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: jahawkin

The administration asserts, without offering evidence, that Iraq has thwarted inspectors by hiding the weapons.

How is this statement wrong?? Where are the hidden Iraqi weapons??

Read

Again, where are the hidden weapons??

Hmmm...you made this post so you can obviously read and write....don't know what to tell you bud. You'll obviously keep going on with "where are the hidden weapons" till your blue in the face.

 

[etech]

Originally posted by: jahawkin

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: jahawkin

The administration asserts, without offering evidence, that Iraq has thwarted inspectors by hiding the weapons.

How is this statement wrong?? Where are the hidden Iraqi weapons??

Read

Again, where are the hidden weapons??

They are hidden, what part of the word hidden do you not understand?

Tell you what, I'll hide a needle in my house and give you 3 months to find it. I bet I can hide it where you can't find it. Iraq is a large country and Saddam has had 12 years to learn how to hide things so they cannot be found. We know he had them in 1998. I'd say we're pretty sure they didn't leave the country though their have been rumours that some may have gone to Syria. So where are they? Probably in some deep underground bunker.

 

[Grasshopper27]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
I was basing it on your final sentence at the end, because I've read a lot about this stuff and most of it is all the same. No, there is not a smoking gun. Yes, Iraq is breaching the last UN resolution, and yes finally without backing up such resolutions by force the UN might as well shove its head up its butt. Without a punishment for failing to comply to a UN resolution such resolutions hold no meaning.

Thank you Skoorb, you point out the obvious that somehow gets lost with some people.

It isn't about finding or not finding WMD, it is about Iraq fully complying with UN resolutions.

Hopper

 

[Grasshopper27]

Originally posted by: minus1972
where is there any information that the weapons inspectors have found anything of merit in Iraq?

The Inspectors are not supposed to "find" anything, Iraq is supposed to lead them to it.

That also has been missed during this whole debate.

Hopper

 

[SherEPunjab]

Originally posted by: Grasshopper27

Originally posted by: minus1972
where is there any information that the weapons inspectors have found anything of merit in Iraq?

The Inspectors are not supposed to "find" anything, Iraq is supposed to lead them to it.

That also has been missed during this whole debate.

Hopper

Maybe the U.S. should get inspected after Iraq does.

 

[Grasshopper27]

Originally posted by: SherEPunjab
Maybe the U.S. should get inspected after Iraq does.

Why? Everyone knows we have WMD, we even post the info on web sites.

Hopper

 

[SherEPunjab]

Originally posted by: Grasshopper27

Originally posted by: SherEPunjab
Maybe the U.S. should get inspected after Iraq does.

Why? Everyone knows we have WMD, we even post the info on web sites.

Hopper

oh no, not just for wmd, but for god knows whatever else our labs our developing.

 

[etech]

Originally posted by: SherEPunjab

Originally posted by: Grasshopper27

Originally posted by: minus1972
where is there any information that the weapons inspectors have found anything of merit in Iraq?

The Inspectors are not supposed to "find" anything, Iraq is supposed to lead them to it.

That also has been missed during this whole debate.

Hopper

Maybe the U.S. should get inspected after Iraq does.

Stupid analogy, Iraq signed the NPT, Iraq lost the war and as part of the cease-fire agreement agreed to divest of all chemical, biological and nuclear weapons and programs to make such.

Try again with something worthwhile.

 

[hagbard]

Originally posted by: SherEPunjab

Originally posted by: Grasshopper27

Originally posted by: minus1972
where is there any information that the weapons inspectors have found anything of merit in Iraq?

The Inspectors are not supposed to "find" anything, Iraq is supposed to lead them to it.

That also has been missed during this whole debate.

Hopper

Maybe the U.S. should get inspected after Iraq does.

Here yah go:

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