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Ok ATI is been a month, wheres the X1800XT?

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There's probably 1/5th the number of the total available GPU's in a "mass" launch that will find their way to consumer houses anyway.

NVidia might have released ... say ... 300,000 copies of the GTX model alone (pure example, and let's presume it's actually nVidia reference ones, and not from BFG or XFX) all around the world, or even just in the U.S.A / Canada combined.

Do you really believe even half of those cards will be bought during its first weeks of availability ? I'm ready to say no.

Of course, it's not because I, myself, am typing this, that it makes the whole thing a "fact".

But GPU's aren't bought in the same manner than games.

It's not like GPU developers go on roof tops yelling "The GeForce 7800 GTX sold 100,000 copies in 24 hours ! A world's first !".

We will never see that happen.

Mass-Launching a GPU, or a CPU, is politically good. It gives a good "picture" for the company, and gives a "we're ready to deliver" message.

And even if that message is indeed technically true ... it's completely useless. And they, themselves (both nVidia and ATi) know that.
 
Good point Zenoth! It certainly doesn't help ATI's case that their quantities of the XT are looking to be a "heavy trickle" to use a convenient oxymoron 😉 .
 
Yep.

That's why when I look at debates about said "availability" that makes a launch "successful" it makes me laugh.

No to be rude or anything.

But, I can see here Rollo for example vouching the "success" of the GeForce 7 series compared to ATi's X1K series, and the last being a "failed" launch, since he believes, without actual proofs to that matter, that "a few stores" received very limited quantities, to give an "illusion" of "mass availability" ...

There is something to understand here.

First, and for all, in terms of pure marketing, making something rare is usually more desirable, than making it available in mass, thus making the said product less ... how to say ... unique. Not always, mind you. That's why I've chosen the word "usually". You know ... think about "oh my ... only a few of them ? if only I could find one I'd get it right now !". Such thinking, as an example.

Second, as I said before, we will never, ever see a waiting line of consumers outside Walmart, or CompUSA, or any other store before it opens, the very morning of a "successful launch day" of any GPU products ... ESPECIALLY not at 500+ dollars.

That's quite ironic.

Nvidia claims that the GTX, and soon to be GTX Ultra (as we'd like to call it) is made for "gaming enthusiats". Being an "enthusiast" gamer means, logically, that we want the very best of the best, top line product. How many actual "enthusiasts" are we in the PC gaming market ? That's right, not many.

So, how "mass-launching" a product for a "minority" is successful ?

All it does, is make the product actually "over-available". That's it.

It's not "bad" ... it's not "good" either.

There is no technical NEEDS for a "mass" launch.

Although a "successful" launch is indeed good, since from day one, you do have a good chance to find one at a known store. Or just wait one or two weeks in the worst case scenario. Which isn't going to kill anyone.

In ATi's case, their X1K launch isn't "mass". But it IS successful. It never failed.

Or probably did in a few minds here and there ...

Some sort of assurance to tell to yourself that one company "failed" while the other can say "mission accomplish", is it ?

And, no, this isn't directly said to, nor "against" Rollo. I'm just trying to make a point ... my humble point, to the general thoughts going in the same path.

 
Usually I let Rollo fend for himself, but he is actually right about the availability. Every manufacturer I talk to says the x1000 parts are in allocation - meaning that manufacturers only get so many ASICs per week. The numbers I heard though were very very weak.

On the other hand, FX5200 and 6600GT are also in allocation. That doesn't mean nearly as much beacuse there are already a million floating around, but just FYI.

Kristopher
 
Considering the X1800 has just been launched (the beginning of November), I wouldn't be too concerned. If this keeps up into December, then I'd definitely say that ATI has a serious allocation issue on their hands.
 
it's a shame that the 520 has been such a horrific disaster in terms of execution for ATI. they better hope that they get their act together with the 580. let's hope the 520 are ATI's 5800.
 
Originally posted by: Rollo
Ah, that's right. Today is XT day according to what we were told at the XLs launch.

Well, they are dribbling out into the populace a few cards at a time, and were even early for that.

So it's a "paper launch" no more, all that remains to be seen is will it be a phantom edition type launch where there is very limited availability for months.
Click to expand...


False. They have been available 3 days before they release date. And at a retail B&M store, CompUSA.

 
Originally posted by: Ackmed
Originally posted by: Rollo
Ah, that's right. Today is XT day according to what we were told at the XLs launch.

Well, they are dribbling out into the populace a few cards at a time, and were even early for that.

So it's a "paper launch" no more, all that remains to be seen is will it be a phantom edition type launch where there is very limited availability for months.
Click to expand...


False. They have been available 3 days before they release date. And at a retail B&M store, CompUSA.
Click to expand...

Give it up ackmed, this is a paper launch, no matter how desperately you don't want it to be.

Originally posted by: KristopherKubicki
Usually I let Rollo fend for himself, but he is actually right about the availability. Every manufacturer I talk to says the x1000 parts are in allocation - meaning that manufacturers only get so many ASICs per week. The numbers I heard though were very very weak.

On the other hand, FX5200 and 6600GT are also in allocation. That doesn't mean nearly as much beacuse there are already a million floating around, but just FYI.

Kristopher
Click to expand...

As for those saying "it's available lots of places online!", if Kristopher's guide is anything to go buy, only ONE store has actual availability (and is price gouging because of it), the rest are pre-orders.
Anandtech RTPE info

If this is typical of the situation is the USA, you can imagine what its like for those outside the US...
 
a paper launch is one where there are NONE avaliable last time i checked, so you'd better be the one getting their facts straight 😉

I'm certainly not disputing a limited (very, seemingly) availability, but then i haven't heard anyone complaining they couldn't get one who wanted one yet...

EDIT: and even rollo said it wasn't a paper launch so i don't know why you are still beating this particular drum... 😕
 
Originally posted by: KristopherKubicki
Usually I let Rollo fend for himself, but he is actually right about the availability. Every manufacturer I talk to says the x1000 parts are in allocation - meaning that manufacturers only get so many ASICs per week. The numbers I heard though were very very weak.

On the other hand, FX5200 and 6600GT are also in allocation. That doesn't mean nearly as much beacuse there are already a million floating around, but just FYI.

Kristopher
Click to expand...


Thanks Kris- appreciate the back up. It's doubtful anyone here except you knew that.
 
Originally posted by: Ackmed
Originally posted by: Rollo
Ah, that's right. Today is XT day according to what we were told at the XLs launch.

Well, they are dribbling out into the populace a few cards at a time, and were even early for that.

So it's a "paper launch" no more, all that remains to be seen is will it be a phantom edition type launch where there is very limited availability for months.
Click to expand...


False. They have been available 3 days before they release date. And at a retail B&M store, CompUSA.
Click to expand...

What's a "paper launch" Ackmed?

Giving your cards to reviewers and releasing specs long before retail availability?

The X1800XT was a paper launch, I already said it is no longer because now there are cards. I thought I was pretty clear.
 
Originally posted by: Rollo
What's a "paper launch" Ackmed?

Giving your cards to reviewers and releasing specs long before retail availability?

The X1800XT was a paper launch, I already said it is no longer because now there are cards. I thought I was pretty clear.
Click to expand...

Its not a paper launch. They told us the cards would not be avail till Nov. 11th. Releasing specs and giving review samples isnt launching a card. Setting a date for it to be available is, which they did, Nov. 11th. They not only met that day, but had cards out days earlier. At CompUSA even, on a Saturday. Seems pretty simple to me.

 
i would definately clas the x1800xt as a paper launch. after all it wasn't avaialble for purchase on the date it was reviewed, about a month ago.

as for the patheticly small dribble of cards that are available now, ok...i'll admit it, the cards are available in a VERY LIMITED quantity, but thats not the sorta x1800xt launch i was expecting.

If anything a proper and decent lauch would have the cards selling at the MSRP, not $50 over, and also selling at multiple e-tailers as well as multiple stores all at the same time. Not this......ooooh......newegg......has 5 available crap.
 
Real Launch - Cards in quantity at several retailers/etailers at the time the product is announced from the manufacturer.
Paper Launch - Product is announced from the manufacturer without availability of purchase for an extended period of time (> 2 weeks, perhaps, as a ballpark figure).

It's very simple. When you announce a product, people want it then, or very shortly after (if ATi had provided X1800XT's within a few days of announcement, I would have had much more respect for this launch in general. That's not what happened).
 
Thats your opinion, which isnt fact.

To me, if they show a card and give out samples to reviewers, then set a date for it to be available, then that date is the launch date. They said it would be out on the 5th, and it was out before then.
 
ATI said upfront that they were not going to launch the XT until November 5th, so saying they weren't available on the day they were reviewed doesn't mean anything in this case, had ATI stated that they were available on October 5th then it would be a paper launch (see Crossfire). Availability has been slim but they are available from multiple sources (although there is a fair amount of price gouging), from what I've heard the big retailers have them in significant quantities but the etailers don't.
 
The consumers, and the review sites, dictate what a paper launch is and isn't. My fact is fact. If you don't like it, oh well. Stop fighting what's obvious and in front of your face, or you're as much of an idiot as M0RPH is. You argue for the sake of arguing and nothing else.

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20040727-4039.html
http://www.cooltechzone.com/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=1537&Itemid=0
http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=4217
http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=ODE1
http://www.geek.com/news/geeknews/2005Oct/bch20051019032828.htm

I could go on all day. You're wrong, so please stop attempting to argue a point that has no merit, or backing.

ATi did NOT say up front that they weren't going to have product available on the 5th of November. Please don't spout errant information.
 
Ronin none of you links show that the X1800XT is a paper launch
Link 1: "launch it now because we have a few samples that actually work, and let's hope we can fix the fabrication and manufacturing problems and sell it later" If this is your definition of a paper launch then the XT wasn't since the reason it was delayed was because of fabrication and manufacturing problems.
Link 2: This link is from July many things intervened between then and now changing the situation, ATI did make it available when they said they would, they didn't pretend that the XT was going to be available when it wasn't.
Link 3: I havn't been a computer hardware buff for long enough to know the exact situation being discussed so I have no comment on it
Link 4: I admit that Crossfire was paper launched multiple times, the difference was that ATI pretended that Crossfire was available when it wasn't.
Link 5: "the fearless NVIDIA leader says that the X1800 XT was simply not available, and shouldn't be paper launched" no way the CEO says something negative about a rival company, I prefer to take my news from a slightly more objective source.
 
Each link defines in one way or another, a paper launch. Sorry that it seems that flew right over your head.

GG, bud. 😉 Context of a post is pretty important to understanding. Guess you have a ways to go.
 
Paper launching, otherwise known as giving customers a preview of upcoming products before they are available. This is the way things are normally done not only for computer products but for most other consumer products. It's not really an evil thing as Nividia fans would have you believe. Nvidia decided to spin paper launches as evil this year when they found that they could use it as a marketing ploy and a way to discredit the competition. Of course some of the Nvidia fans here, sheep-like as they are, have fallen for the whole Nvidia re-education (read: brainwashing) to the point where they've convinced themselves that this practice of giving previews of upcoming prodcts is the most horrible offense a company can commit.
 
nVidia?! decided to spin it? There were COUNTLESS articles from reputable sites bitching at both companies because of paper launches. Would you like me to smack you down some more with MORE links?
 
Originally posted by: Ronin
Each link defines in one way or another, a paper launch. Sorry that it seems that flew right over your head.

GG, bud. 😉 Context of a post is pretty important to understanding. Guess you have a ways to go.
Click to expand...

Ronin I understood the context of your post but I think your missing what I'm saying, all I'm saying is that ATI said they'd be available on November 5th and they were. A paper launch is saying a product is available before it is before it is, since XTs were available on the 5th it isn't a paper launch.
 
Originally posted by: M0RPH
Paper launching, otherwise known as giving customers a preview of upcoming products before they are available. This is the way things are normally done not only for computer products but for most other consumer products. It's not really an evil thing as Nividia fans would have you believe. Nvidia decided to spin paper launches as evil this year when they found that they could use it as a marketing ploy and a way to discredit the competition. Of course some of the Nvidia fans here, sheep-like as they are, have fallen for the whole Nvidia re-education (read: brainwashing) to the point where they've convinced themselves that this practice of giving previews of upcoming prodcts is the most horrible offense a company can commit.
Click to expand...


I actually agree with this. The only bad launch is when they pick a date an fail to meet it. Either through incompetance or out right lying. The X1800XL launched on time as did the X1800XT.

Makes me wonder how many folks were pissed the GTX came out 31days after they bought a 6800U because they had no idea it was coming.

More information is never bad as long as its accurate.😉
 
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