Oil thread 9-7-06:Former BP head of Pipeline invokes 5th

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: charrison
More jobs for US citizens, less oil from foreign sources. Good deal right?

If only it would be true.

I'm sure all more Bullsh1t and won't see anything come of this other than massive destruction up there.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: charrison
More jobs for US citizens, less oil from foreign sources. Good deal right?

If only it would be true.

I'm sure all more Bullsh1t and won't see anything come of this other than massive destruction up there.

well tell me how the oil will get out the groud without workers?

Show where the alaska has been destroyed so far with current oil development.

 

[Engineer]

Pump that oil out boys. Oh, and if we're going to open up Alaska to get the oil, let's not be stupid and sell it to Japan or even worse, give it to another country (North Korea, etc) in return for favors or a better relationship. Keep your own oil for yourself if you're importing the stuff.

The sooner the stuff runs out, the better. Maybe we can then develope something else and the ME can eat the sand that fills their empty oil pits.

 

[dullard]

I say keep the oil in the ground. Use up the middle east's oil, and keep ours for a rainy day when we really NEED it. Of course, explore and find the best places, just don't drill it yet.

As it is, this oil won't go to the US anyways (no way to get it to US refineries). Oh well.

 

[Zedtom]

Originally posted by: Engineer
Pump that oil out boys. Oh, and if we're going to open up Alaska to get the oil, let's not be stupid and sell it to Japan or even worse, give it to another country (North Korea, etc) in return for favors or a better relationship. Keep your own oil for yourself if you're importing the stuff.

I've got some news for you. We've been selling Alaskan oil to Japan for many years now.

The output from North Slope and offshore rigs is beyond the capacity of refineries to process it. We can only stockpile so much, and the oil companies are always willing to sell to the highest bidder. Our President is always going to make decisions in these matters to benefit the oil companies...its a family tradition.

 

[Train]

Originally posted by: Engineer
Pump that oil out boys. Oh, and if we're going to open up Alaska to get the oil, let's not be stupid and sell it to Japan or even worse, give it to another country (North Korea, etc) in return for favors or a better relationship. Keep your own oil for yourself if you're importing the stuff.

The sooner the stuff runs out, the better. Maybe we can then develope something else and the ME can eat the sand that fills their empty oil pits.

Actually, most of the oil from Alaska will end up in Japan (lets hope they are paying top dollar for it) because it is not the sweet crude type the US prefers to make gasoline. I beleive the Alaskan reserves are the high sulfur type, which there is more of a market for in Japan and Asia. The good news is it will decrease our trade deficit with Asia.

Originally posted by: dullard
...
As it is, this oil won't go to the US anyways (no way to get it to US refineries). Oh well.

theres this nice thing already in place, its called the Alaskan Pipeline, maybe youve heard of it?

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Train

Originally posted by: Engineer
Pump that oil out boys. Oh, and if we're going to open up Alaska to get the oil, let's not be stupid and sell it to Japan or even worse, give it to another country (North Korea, etc) in return for favors or a better relationship. Keep your own oil for yourself if you're importing the stuff.

The sooner the stuff runs out, the better. Maybe we can then develope something else and the ME can eat the sand that fills their empty oil pits.

Actually, most of the oil from Alaska will end up in Japan (lets hope they are paying top dollar for it) because it is not the sweet crude type the US prefers to make gasoline. I beleive the Alaskan reserves are the high sulfur type, which there is more of a market for in Japan and Asia. The good news is it will decrease our trade deficit with Asia.

Originally posted by: dullard
...
As it is, this oil won't go to the US anyways (no way to get it to US refineries). Oh well.

theres this nice thing already in place, its called the Alaskan Pipeline, maybe youve heard of it?

Love the Bullsh1t from the AOA (America's Oil Aplogists).

There is so little refining capacity on the West Coast (on purpose of course) that the Oil thugs have been shipping most of the Oil from Alaska to Japan for years just as somebody said.

Of course the AOA will chime back in for the Oil Thugs claiming that the low refinery capacity is all the Environmentalists fault for blocking new Refinery capacity from being added. 110% pure Bullsh!t.

 

[nergee]

"There is so little refining capacity on the West Coast (on purpose of course) that the Oil thugs have been shipping most of the Oil from Alaska to Japan for years just as somebody said. "

There is more than enough West coast refining capacity to handle Alaska's oil now and even if ANWR becomes a reality.........


Look Here

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: nergee
"There is so little refining capacity on the West Coast (on purpose of course) that the Oil thugs have been shipping most of the Oil from Alaska to Japan for years just as somebody said. "

There is more than enough West coast refining capacity to handle Alaska's oil now and even if ANWR becomes a reality.........


Look Here

Doesn't matter. Lots of that oil is going to Japan and other countries anyway. Not necessarily a bad thing unless we are giving it away.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: nergee
"There is so little refining capacity on the West Coast (on purpose of course) that the Oil thugs have been shipping most of the Oil from Alaska to Japan for years just as somebody said. "

There is more than enough West coast refining capacity to handle Alaska's oil now and even if ANWR becomes a reality.........


Look Here

Opening the Coastal Plain of the Alaska National Wildlife Refuge (ANWR) to oil production would
require the U.S. shipbuilding industry to construct a fleet of 19 tankers to transport the oil to the
rest of the nation. Construction of these tankers would directly create about 2,000 stable
construction jobs in the U.S. shipbuilding industry and about 3,000 other jobs in the U.S.
economy during the initial 17 year construction period. In all, opening a small fraction of ANWR
would result in a total of over 90,000 job-years.1

Method

This analysis estimates the total amount of crude oil expected to be produced from the North
Slope of Alaska over the next 60 years, with and without production from ANWR. It also
examines the number of tankers that would be needed to transport that crude to refineries in
Washington, California, and Hawaii under the two scenarios. In doing so, this paper takes into
account the refining capacity in these states, the capacity of the Trans-Alaskan Pipeline (2.2
million barrels per day), the existing number of tankers in the Alaska trade, their phase-out dates
under the Oil Pollution Act (OPA), and any scheduled new building of tankers.

=====================================================
Yeah right. It hasn't happened all these years and it's not going to happen.

The Oil Thugs are perfectly content with milking the existing system.

 

[Train]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Yeah right. It hasn't happened all these years and it's not going to happen.

pull the wool off your eyes Dave.

 

[dmcowen674]

1-25-2005 Italian town of Vicenza imposes week-long car ban

ROME (AFP) - The northern Italian town of Vicenza has imposed a week-long total ban on cars at the beginning of February in a major bid to fight pollution, the city announced.

Citizens must also keep domestic heating to no more than 20 degrees Celsius (68 degrees Fahrenheit) during the period.
===========================================================
Can't wait till the U.S. starts rationing and banning :thumbsup:

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot
err oil is about 1.00 a gallon. 42 gallons in a barrel.

I think it's talking about heating oil (one fraction of oil distillate), though it's hard to say for sure.

 

[dmcowen674]

1-25-2005 Bush Admin OKs Drilling Plan for Rare New Mexico Desert Land

Overriding objections by New Mexico's governor, the Interior Department announced a final plan Monday for expanding oil and gas drilling on Otero Mesa, a rare desert grassland and one of a handful of places in the western U.S. where opposition to drilling had united ranchers, property rights advocates, hunters and conservationists.

On Monday, Richardson lashed out at the Bush administration's "one-way, oil-only energy policy."

"I am very disappointed by the Bush administration's failure to respect New Mexico's position on oil and gas leasing in this precious, sensitive and world-renowned area"

"The bottom line continues to be we are talking about destroying the largest remaining desert grasslands in America for at best a few days worth of oil and gas. That is shortsighted"

The potential energy yield from the area is unclear.

According to the BLM, about 100 wells have been drilled in the last century and two have produced oil or gas.

 

[ReiAyanami]

perhaps they voted the wrong way, its the only explanation

next up, oil rigs in the Grand Canyon

 

[bigdog1218]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Yzzim

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot
Ethanol is an energy loser and therefore will always need to be subsidized by an energy winner (re oil).

that's what I've understood too. Haven't looked for anything to back it up, but many people have told me that, and I'm from a farming community.

People run from trying to back it up. You see, the study and/or figures they cite are old I'd like to see something cited from the last decade from the people who continue to claim this.

CsG

Omar? Anyone?

CsG

Ethanol production from corn is much less efficient than production from molasses or other sugar can byproducts. The US uses corn because of its abundance, not because its the best choice. In Hawaii, India, Brazil, where sugar cane is more abundant these types of ethanol plants are used. The real question isn't whether ethanol from corn is energy efficient per acre, but whether we can set aside enough land for the corn. A typical acre of sugar cane crop will produce 600 gallons of ethanol per acre, whereas corn produces about 300. In order for ethanol to actually make a difference in oil consumption the size of corn crops needed is ridiculous, and therefore its not a reasonable choice.

And before you say where are your citations look it up yourself and read before pretending to know everything.

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
1-25-2005 Bush Admin OKs Drilling Plan for Rare New Mexico Desert Land

Overriding objections by New Mexico's governor, the Interior Department announced a final plan Monday for expanding oil and gas drilling on Otero Mesa, a rare desert grassland and one of a handful of places in the western U.S. where opposition to drilling had united ranchers, property rights advocates, hunters and conservationists.

On Monday, Richardson lashed out at the Bush administration's "one-way, oil-only energy policy."

"I am very disappointed by the Bush administration's failure to respect New Mexico's position on oil and gas leasing in this precious, sensitive and world-renowned area"

"The bottom line continues to be we are talking about destroying the largest remaining desert grasslands in America for at best a few days worth of oil and gas. That is shortsighted"

The potential energy yield from the area is unclear.

According to the BLM, about 100 wells have been drilled in the last century and two have produced oil or gas.

fvcking a :roll:

How to deal with the oil shortages:
a) remove tax code that favors bus sides SUVs for small business. Have EPA mandate stricter fuel economy standards for cars, shift tax code to favor more fuel efficent cars

b) drill thru every piece of land we have to postpone the inevitable by x years

 

[jai6638]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: Train
Dave your an idiot (jeeze I feel like I've said that a thousand times)

so you can find one place that has -20 degree temperatures, wow, guess what , no one lives there.

note that 80% of US heating oil is consumed in the northeast, which is having pretty warm temps for this time of year.

get a clue, really

HEY! I live were its -20 BRRRRR!

It's on the western side of the Great Lake States today, don't worry Ohio, Indiana etc will be in the deep freeze tomorrow.

Those that know me know that I have predicted major Weather events many many days before even a hint by the big Pros.

Here is the promised Mamoth storm and cold I saw forming last week:

1-5-2005 Nation's midsection will get 1-2-3 punch

Moisture-laden storms from the north, west and south are likely to converge on much of America over the next several days in what could be a once-in-a-generation onslaught, meteorologists forecast Tuesday.

The "Pineapple Express," a series of warm and storms heading east from Hawaii, drenching Southern California and the far Southwest, which already are beset with heavy rain and snow. It could cause flooding, avalanches and mudslides.

An "Arctic Express," a mass of cold air chugging south from Alaska and Canada, bringing frigid air and potentially heavy snow and ice to the usually mild-wintered Pacific Northwest.

An unnamed warm, moist storm system from the Gulf of Mexico drenching the already saturated Ohio, Tennessee and Mississippi valleys. Expect heavy river flooding and springlike tornadoes.

All three are likely to meet somewhere in the nation's midsection and cause even more problems, sparing only areas east of the Appalachian Mountains.

"You're talking a two- or three-times-a-century type of thing," said prediction center senior meteorologist James Wagner, who has been forecasting storms since 1965. "It's a pattern that has a little bit of everything."

The combo storms could damage property and cause a few deaths.

"It's a situation that looks pretty potent," said Ed O'Lenic, the Climate Prediction Center's operations chief. "A large part of North America looks like it's going to be affected."

The last time a similar situation seemed to be brewing, especially in the West, was in January 1950, O'Lenic said. That month, 21 inches of snow hit Seattle, killing 13 people in an extended freeze.

when do u think the next snowstorm with snow accumulations of more than 5-6 inches gonna be in New England ( especially Connecticut ) ? ( not tryin to be sarcastic or anythin.. )

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
1-25-2005 Bush Admin OKs Drilling Plan for Rare New Mexico Desert Land

Overriding objections by New Mexico's governor, the Interior Department announced a final plan Monday for expanding oil and gas drilling on Otero Mesa, a rare desert grassland and one of a handful of places in the western U.S. where opposition to drilling had united ranchers, property rights advocates, hunters and conservationists.

On Monday, Richardson lashed out at the Bush administration's "one-way, oil-only energy policy."

"I am very disappointed by the Bush administration's failure to respect New Mexico's position on oil and gas leasing in this precious, sensitive and world-renowned area"

"The bottom line continues to be we are talking about destroying the largest remaining desert grasslands in America for at best a few days worth of oil and gas. That is shortsighted"

The potential energy yield from the area is unclear.

According to the BLM, about 100 wells have been drilled in the last century and two have produced oil or gas.

The entire state of NM along I-40 is a desert grassland. Pretty, but hardly rare. I have pics if anyone wants them

 

[0marTheZealot]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Yzzim

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot
Ethanol is an energy loser and therefore will always need to be subsidized by an energy winner (re oil).

that's what I've understood too. Haven't looked for anything to back it up, but many people have told me that, and I'm from a farming community.

People run from trying to back it up. You see, the study and/or figures they cite are old I'd like to see something cited from the last decade from the people who continue to claim this.

CsG

David Pimental, a Cornell University researcher, has spent the last few decades studying Ethanol. He concludes that, after everything, including harvesting and purification which are generally omitted from most studies, ethanol has an EPR of .3 at best.
http://www.soilassociation.org...ble_library/NT0002E072
http://designer96.tripod.com/facts1.htm

However, many biodiesal options are energy positive, indicating that they can be a source of energy. However, non-trivial technical problems still need to be worked out.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Yzzim

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot
Ethanol is an energy loser and therefore will always need to be subsidized by an energy winner (re oil).

that's what I've understood too. Haven't looked for anything to back it up, but many people have told me that, and I'm from a farming community.

People run from trying to back it up. You see, the study and/or figures they cite are old I'd like to see something cited from the last decade from the people who continue to claim this.

CsG

David Pimental, a Cornell University researcher, has spent the last few decades studying Ethanol. He concludes that, after everything, including harvesting and purification which are generally omitted from most studies, ethanol has an EPR of .3 at best.
http://www.soilassociation.org...ble_library/NT0002E072
http://designer96.tripod.com/facts1.htm

However, many biodiesal options are energy positive, indicating that they can be a source of energy. However, non-trivial technical problems still need to be worked out.

Your first link is only to a mention of Pimental's opinion.
Your second link is grossly out of date with ethanol proceedures and full of disinformation. I'd go throught it point by point but I don't want to type a book. It also relies on Pimental's "research".

You might start with this.

Once you get done with that - I have plenty more.

CsG

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: jai6638

when do u think the next snowstorm with snow accumulations of more than 5-6 inches gonna be in New England ( especially Connecticut ) ? ( not tryin to be sarcastic or anythin.. )

I have been very busy at work and not following weather pattern very closely after this weekend's blizzard.

However I did notice we are getting some activity from the southern Pacific (storms coming in across from lower Baja area) which could start a series of NorEasters for the East Coast up to New England.

Mid section of Country should enjoy a breather then.

I'll check back in after I get a chance to see the Belt data.

 

[dmcowen674]

Further proof Oil prices have absolutely nothing to do with Supply and Demand as the P&N Elite swear to:

Oil Extends Rally Despite Rising Supply

Oil extended gains over $51 a barrel on Thursday as concern that OPEC was becoming comfortable with prices near $50 countered swelling stockpiles in the United States, the world's largest energy consumer.

The strength came after Saudi Oil Minister Ali al-Naimi said on Thursday he expected crude prices to stay between $40 and $50 throughout this year.

In the past, members of the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries had called crude oil prices near $50 too high.

The price gains came despite a U.S. government report showing continued increases in already robust crude oil and gasoline inventories.

 

[Crimson]

I thought this type of thread wasn't allowed? Oh wait, thats right.. its only if a conservative does it.

 

[DragonMasterAlex]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
1-2-2005 Firewood Sales Up As Oil Prices Rise

Seasoned firewood is now selling for roughly $180 to $230 a cord compared to between $140 and $160 a year ago

Ray Colton of Pittsfield, Vt., said his company has sold more than 4,000 cords this season, about 1,000 more than last year: "We're selling as fast as we produce," he said.

A cord is a stack of firewood 4 feet wide, 8 feet long and 4 feet high.

Oil prices are hovering at close to $2 a gallon in Maine, up more than 30 percent from a year ago. At $2.18 a gallon, kerosene is 56 cents more than last year. And propane averages $2.06 a gallon, up 43 cents from a year ago.

Prices are also up out West, including in Colorado, where local hardwood begins at $180 per cord and imported oak costs $300.

"Firewood at $180 a cord is still a deal compared to what it costs to heat your home with oil," he said.

Actually it has a *LOT* to do with supply and demand. The trouble is that we have an evil Cartel regulating supply in order to keep prices artificially high. Hardly the same thing as a total disconnect between supply and demand.

In any case, I'm pretty content with high oil prices. Why? Because the longer they keep up the high oil prices the more we'll invest in and develop alternative fuel technologies. Witness the explosion of hybrid car popularity and the impending Hydrogen powered cars. Long term, the only people who are going to end up screwed are the members of OPEC. And you know what? Piss on them. Let the whole middle east starve and rot once we don't need their oil anymore.

Jason