oil change interval question

[SandEagle]

i put on about 2400 miles in the last 10 months on my civic. its supposed to get an oil change every 10,000 miles. i still have 90% oil life left. should i change the oil now or is there anything wrong with letting it go longer? at this rate it'll probably be 3 years before i hit 10K.

 

[Howard]

10k miles? Really?

Just follow the OLM.

 

[phucheneh]

10k miles? Really?

Just follow the OLM.

I've seen the monitor in Hondas actually let it go to 10k. Possibly past.

I can't remember, do they actually use an opacimeter or are they the ones that supposedly compute when an oil change is needed based on 'driving style?'

If the latter...their algorithm needs some tweaks. And hard limits.

Personally, I like the 3750 recommendation that some manufacturers use now. Then rotate the tires every 7500.

I'm sure there have been threads like this in the past, and there are always people who favor lower mileages (or at least using synthetic with longer intervals) and others who claim that through some magic, cars actually can go on 7.5-10k oil changes nowadays.

For 'maximum,' I'd say 5k. But then your tire rotations get a little far apart.

 

[pandemonium]

Modern engines and oils are very durable, especially synthetic oils. Hondas almost exclusively use at least a synthetic-organic blend (and usually full synthetic from the plant) and usually have a minimum 7.5k mile change interval, even on their higher performance engines.

What I usually do is just change the oil filter and top off the oil on mine and extend the use of my premium synthetic oils.

It really depends on the conditions you're typically driving in. If you're going through a lot of dust or driving in a lot of rain, then changing the filter more often is a sound idea to maintain the oil consistency and keep particulates out of your oil. Unless you're actually burning oil or coolant, the intervals are actually very conservative.

Just change the filter and top it off if you're at all concerned.

 

[pandemonium]

I've seen the monitor in Hondas actually let it go to 10k. Possibly past.

I can't remember, do they actually use an opacimeter or are they the ones that supposedly compute when an oil change is needed based on 'driving style?'

If the latter...their algorithm needs some tweaks. And hard limits.

Personally, I like the 3750 recommendation that some manufacturers use now. Then rotate the tires every 7500.

I'm sure there have been threads like this in the past, and there are always people who favor lower mileages (or at least using synthetic with longer intervals) and others who claim that through some magic, cars actually can go on 7.5-10k oil changes nowadays.

For 'maximum,' I'd say 5k. But then your tire rotations get a little far apart.

In regards to the first bolded statement, I'm not certain about all models, but I think most just are based on mileage.

We can put your second bolded statement to rest right now. There have been several studies for engines and their intervals and the 3k mile change thing is of the past. It is completely unnecessary in today's age. Like I said before, unless you're burning oil, or coolant, or there is something else mechanically wrong with the engine, changing the oil should be 7.5k-10k for all modern engines. In fact, some engines haven't had their oil changed in several hundred thousands of miles.

This applies to non-modified, OEM intake, properly functioning modern engines used in non-severe conditions.

 

[WilliamM2]

For 'maximum,' I'd say 5k. But then your tire rotations get a little far apart.

You don't have to rotate the tires at the same time as an oil change...although I find 10K tire rotations seem to work just fine.

 

[LTC8K6]

Why is it always so hard to read the manual and do what it says?

 

[pandemonium]

10k tire rotation is fine as long as they're being balance and aligned at the same time and there aren't any inherent suspension/sub-frame issues causing uneven tire wear, and proper air pressures are being used.

I do mine at 5k though; for several reasons which don't apply to most people: my vehicle is performance and modified and maintaining optimal tire patch is more-so important than the typical commuter vehicle (I commute in my vehicle as well), I use ultra-performance tires that are more expensive than all-season or basic passenger vehicle tires, I have lifetime alignment/balancing and can take advantage of this package without financial hinderance.

 

[phucheneh]

I'll just leave this here.

That modern engine full of modern oil had 30k miles. The liquid is there because I added oil before taking it apart.

But hey, 10k is only a third of that. I'm sure it'll be fine...

 

[phucheneh]

10k tire rotation is fine as long as they're being balance and aligned at the same time and there aren't any inherent suspension/sub-frame issues causing uneven tire wear, and proper air pressures are being used.

I do mine at 5k though; for several reasons which don't apply to most people: my vehicle is performance and modified and maintaining optimal tire patch is more-so important than the typical commuter vehicle (I commute in my vehicle as well), I use ultra-performance tires that are more expensive than all-season or basic passenger vehicle tires, I have lifetime alignment/balancing and can take advantage of this package without financial hinderance.

It depends on the car. I'd share experiences of tires being ruined in under 10k miles, but I'm sure someone would just call me a stupid liar.

You don't need an alignment every 10k. I've 'aligned' (read: tweaked toe settings to change the numbers, but really changed nothing) cars with 50k miles or more that didn't need it. 'I hit a bump and my car lost its alignment' is a myth; unless you actually damaged something.

And a good set of tires might need warrant one rebalance over their lifetime.

Not trying to be mean about it, just telling you that you're probably wasting your money.

 

[pandemonium]

I'll just leave this here.

That modern engine full of modern oil had 30k miles. The liquid is there because I added oil before taking it apart.

But hey, 10k is only a third of that. I'm sure it'll be fine...

I'm confused, what exactly is this picture suppose to be proving to us?

 

[Howard]

I'll just leave this here.

That modern engine full of modern oil had 30k miles. The liquid is there because I added oil before taking it apart.

But hey, 10k is only a third of that. I'm sure it'll be fine...

Was that engine known for sludge problems?

 

[phucheneh]

Nissan 3.7L. I don't particularly know of any sludge problems. It came in as a no-start. I got it running by unplugging one of the camshaft sensors (the CVVT hub was stuck, and the ECM just couldn't seem to make sense of what was going on). She (an NFL cheerleader...go figure) abandoned it at the dealer and assumably just quit making the payments. I actually test drove the damn thing before I dropped the pan and found that...very surprised the pickup didn't clog.

I'm certainly not saying that it's a linear thing. i.e. if you go 15k you'll have half that much sludge...it's more of an exponential thing. Once the engine starts to accumulate a decent amount of oil sludge (which is not prevented by filter changes), a crapton more will follow.

In general, I've seen cars with 7500 changes have problems. I've seen cars with 10k+ changes not have problems. So basically, I recommend people err on the side of caution. If that's stupid and wasteful...well, I guess I'm stupid and wasteful.

 

[pandemonium]

It depends on the car. I'd share experiences of tires being ruined in under 10k miles, but I'm sure someone would just call me a stupid liar.

You don't need an alignment every 10k. I've 'aligned' (read: tweaked toe settings to change the numbers, but really changed nothing) cars with 50k miles or more that didn't need it. 'I hit a bump and my car lost its alignment' is a myth; unless you actually damaged something.

And a good set of tires might need warrant one rebalance over their lifetime.

Not trying to be mean about it, just telling you that you're probably wasting your money.

I wouldn't call you a liar if you said you've seen tires ruined in under 10k miles. I've seen it as well, and it's usually due to sub-frame or suspension issues causing uneven wear.

There's no reason to just 'assume' your alignment or tire balancing isn't needed. Sure, most of the time your suspension retains its hold and won't need to be touched, but it's that one time that it doesn't (either through normal use or hitting a bump, curb, vehicle, deer, et. al.) and causes uneven wear or be the cause of an accident due to poor tire contact with the road.

My lifetime balancing costs me $7/tire, so $28, and covers the life of the tires (around 50k miles). That's a huge expense there.

My lifetime alignment cost me $150, and covers alignment for the entire ownership of my vehicle; e.g. for the rest of my life since I'm keeping my car. As I said already (in the part that you quoted no less), my vehicle isn't stock and I make more use of alignment than a typical commuter vehicle does. I've had my vehicle aligned 9 times (4 of them were due to suspension changes). Each time would've cost me $75, so I think I've made use of that initial investment several times over.

So averaging that all out to a per instance use (minus the modified, abnormal use of alignment due to my suspension changes), we're at $35. (The same cost that a typical commuter and an unmodified vehicle would be paying for all intents and purposes.) Each time my tires were balanced the weights were adjusted, proving that it wasn't a waste. My last set of 40k mile tires ended up lasting 50k. I extended the life of my tires beyond their rating by 25%, so I saved myself another $150 by spending $35 per instance of balancing/alignment (which will be progressively lower as my vehicle ages).

In short, no, I'm not wasting my money in any way, shape, or form. Thanks for the recommendation though.

 

[pandemonium]

Nissan 3.7L. I don't particularly know of any sludge problems. It came in as a no-start. I got it running by unplugging one of the camshaft sensors (the CVVT hub was stuck, and the ECM just couldn't seem to make sense of what was going on). She (an NFL cheerleader...go figure) abandoned it at the dealer and assumably just quit making the payments. I actually test drove the damn thing before I dropped the pan and found that...very surprised the pickup didn't clog.

I'm certainly not saying that it's a linear thing. i.e. if you go 15k you'll have half that much sludge...it's more of an exponential thing. Once the engine starts to accumulate a decent amount of oil sludge (which is not prevented by filter changes), a crapton more will follow.

In general, I've seen cars with 7500 changes have problems. I've seen cars with 10k+ changes not have problems. So basically, I recommend people err on the side of caution. If that's stupid and wasteful...well, I guess I'm stupid and wasteful.

Seems to me it was garbage oil and probably never changed. Do we have the maintenance records for the vehicle? I bet they aren't even intact.

 

[pandemonium]

Nissan 3.7L. I don't particularly know of any sludge problems. It came in as a no-start. I got it running by unplugging one of the camshaft sensors (the CVVT hub was stuck, and the ECM just couldn't seem to make sense of what was going on). She (an NFL cheerleader...go figure) abandoned it at the dealer and assumably just quit making the payments. I actually test drove the damn thing before I dropped the pan and found that...very surprised the pickup didn't clog.

I'm certainly not saying that it's a linear thing. i.e. if you go 15k you'll have half that much sludge...it's more of an exponential thing. Once the engine starts to accumulate a decent amount of oil sludge (which is not prevented by filter changes), a crapton more will follow.

In general, I've seen cars with 7500 changes have problems. I've seen cars with 10k+ changes not have problems. So basically, I recommend people err on the side of caution. If that's stupid and wasteful...well, I guess I'm stupid and wasteful.

I think the moral of that story is don't use cheap oil. Use premium synthetic oils that have documented, proven independently, tested sludge protection (none of that internal labs results b.s.) and rest comfortably assured.

Edit: I was curious, as I'm not a huge Nissan buff, so I went looking and found this thread on 370z regarding abnormally high temps on that engine. This could be the problem as well.

 

[phucheneh]

It was just neglect. The quality of the oil...well, ask the Japanese assembly plant, because I'm sure that oil was what they put in it. There's not exactly much reason to believe the customer ever changed the oil...it'd be pretty unlikely to have someone change the oil at a reasonable interval (possibly 7500 on that car, but I'd still stick to ~5kish) and then just stop for 20k+.

Like I said, I'm not even implying a 15k motor would look half that bad...but I have seen (overall minimal, but easily noticeable) build-up at as little at 7-8k intervals.

I believe ZV and I debated on this a couple years ago, actually (don't know how that turned out...don't want to be reminded). I was using Volvo's aluminum engines (present in most of their 90's cars and all of the 2000+) as an example of why 7500 mile oil changes were not easy to recommend...If the owner changed the oil at 7500 (Volvo's rec) instead of 3750 (dealer rec) we saw the oil trap boxes plugging up well below 100k. The 'oil trap' was a plastic box under the intake that was part of a pretty complex PCV system- they could pull negative crankcase pressure on turbo cars with some decent mileage on them...pretty impressive, really, but the box and associated hoses (and even certain associated oil passages in the block) were prone to clogging if the owner used conventional oil without being somewhat close to the 'mythical' 3k changes.

I concede many engines are not nearly as sensitive to sludge build-up as those Volvos (built in straight 4, 5, and 6 configurations)...but the fact that sludge was readily occurring is evidence enough to me that I'd rather avoid consistent 7500 mile oil changes. The most sensitive part of most newer cars are narrow oil passages commonly used with variable valve timing systems; I've seen get clogged relatively often on fairly reasonably maintained engines.

Like I said, 3k is pretty short, but 'better' oil doesn't equal magic oil. Some folks just go a scary amount of time on the same oil...sometimes it turns out okay, sometimes it doesn't.

As far as temps, combustion temps on all modern engines are generally higher than they used to be, but blowby is less. It's hard to say if the engine is really an overall factor in the effects of long oil intervals; especially since old engines could run a lot longer on cruddy oil due to less sensitive parts. It usually took a major failure of the main/rod bearing type to have an effect other than maybe some valve clatter. Good example of the opposite being the above engine, which actually was mechanically capable of running despite its pickup being immersed in sludge...but the problems it caused with the CVVT components caused the ECM to call it quits.

 

[pandemonium]

While we're definitely tangenting the thread, it is important to take note of the specific engine that you're using and apply that knowledge to what intervals are acceptable. For oil change intervals, I mentioned most vehicles because that's what's generally listed in the manuals and are the accepted servicing intervals for the modern engine. There are, of course, exceptions to the rule, but specifically regarding the OP's Honda, there's absolutely no reason not to recommend using a 10k interval (or 7.5k as you mention).

Any turbo'd vehicle is a different story though, such as you referencing Volvos. I'll concede we can make that the exception to the rule here.

 

[CraigRT]

I would go annual oil change max myself.
Usually its miles/time.

10K or 1 year whatever comes first is what I would follow myself.

 

[mvbighead]

I would go annual oil change max myself.
Usually its miles/time.

This. If you're only driving a minimal amount, you had ought to at least replace the oil annually.

 

[jpeyton]

Ditto, either go with your car's recommended OCI or 12 months, whichever you hit first.

Go with synthetic and a good filter if you want extra insurance. It's $50 vs. the normal $20 per oil change, which works out to peanuts when you do the cost per mile math.

 

[railer]

Follow your owners manual, and/or follow your OLM. I wouldn't think twice about taking a car to 10k miles between oil changes, if that followed the manufacturers recommendation.

OLM's work just fine:
http://www.edmunds.com/car-care/oil-life-monitoring-systems.html

Also, that sludged out Nissan could have had windshield washer fluid added to the oil, for all we know. Stupid people do stupid things. Modern cars with modern oil and modern monitoring systems can go a long time between oil changes.

 

[mmntech]

I get mine changed every 6000km since I don't drive a lot. So this usually equates to twice a year; spring and fall. You can go 8000 to 12000km between changes quite easily with regular oil.

 

[vshah]

i follow the OLM and it usually comes on between 4-5k miles.

 

[Howard]

I believe ZV and I debated on this a couple years ago, actually (don't know how that turned out...don't want to be reminded).

Dupe account?