Ohio Auto Dealers Want Laws to Keep Tesla from Selling Cars Online

[Fern]

I'm pretty sure we've had this thread before.

There are a lot of good reasons to prevent auto manufactures from selling online.

E.g.: IIRC Tesla is located in CA. I live in NC. An auto is generally your second most expensive (asset) purchase. If I do business with Tesla, who aren't licensed in NC and have a problem I'm pretty much helpless. My state (NC) has no jurisdiction over Tesla.

It works the same way for health insurance and many other products.

I thought states already outlawed direct sales anyway. And you can't just make an exception for one manufacturer.

Anyway, in the other thread were a bunch of reasons Tesla shouldn't be allowed to sell online.

Fern

 

[Zaap]

I don't get why auto dealers are so afraid of Tesla.

Tesla so far has one model readily available (Model S) and their target buyer has to be one of the most specific in the auto industry. ($80K-$100K luxury auto buyer, EV-only enthusiast, homeowner with access to wall charger, and/or ability to install a charging station in a garage or driveway.)

This is not the average Joe/Jane walking in to the car dealer who needs a sales-drone to hard sell them on a run of the mill car. It's likely only a very highly educated, well-heeled demographic that knows quite specifically what they want.

I also don't get the dealer's fears of Internet auto sales. All the major players have Internet auto sales themselves, so what's the f'ing problem with Tesla?

I bought my current plug-in hybrid almost entirely online from Ford. I didn't need any sales-drone to yap bullshit to me about it- I spec'd the car I wanted online, sent my request in, went in only to meet with the Internet sales rep and test drive the car, and then to sign the paperwork. Took me about an hour of research online and 30 minutes at the dealer.

Like ALWAYS whenever I've walked into an auto dealership, I saw 5 or 6 sales-drones standing around shuffling their feet just waiting to pounce on whatever poor soul happens to stray onto the lot- so basically doing nothing for the entire time it took me to buy a car from the Internet sales dept.

Why are dealers clinging so hard to this old outdated model? Or just because they consider themselves stuck with it, they want to shackle Tesla and other more forward-thinking makers with an outdated system also?

All a car dealership seems to me is a big, overkill parking lot. They could probably move most of the cars elsewhere, and have a simple showroom/test drive location, with most of the sales done online. Gee, sorry if that would put 5 or 6 annoying on-site sales-drones out of a job. Create more jobs then for people answering buyer's questions online and selling cars online.

 

[cubby1223]

I may be a crazy radical extremist here, but I'd like to go back and find out the reasoning behind the laws enforcing private, independent dealerships, rather than making assumptions. Because my personal assumption would be that many private owners competing against each other should provide better service rather than one giant mega-corporation controlling all aspects of car ownership and service. But I could be wrong.

 

[cubby1223]

I don't get why auto dealers are so afraid of Tesla.

They're not afraid of Tesla.

They are afraid of Ford, GM, Toyota, selling directly to consumers putting them out of business.


Look at the main street of your small hometown and all the empty storefronts thanks to Amazon.

I'm not saying Amazon is evil, I am saying Amazon is more efficient, and empty storefronts and fewer jobs are the natural result.

If you ran a business that employed two dozen workers, puts food on the plates of the families of those two dozen workers, some have worked with the dealership for decades, wouldn't you fight to protect that if the opportunity were there?

 

[Zaap]

Personally I'm not against private, independent dealerships. It's just why in fuck wouldn't those private independent dealerships also have online auto sales?

Also, I'd like to know what's stopping any of them from selling Teslas? (Other than at this point, Tesla themselves?)

We see mixed-brand dealerships all the time. Why not sell Tesla as well?

 

[chucky2]

What is the difference between me ordering my PC parts from Newegg online after reading reviews (when needed) and having them shipped right to me door vs buying them in Worst Buy, vs me reading reviews on a Tesla car online and ordering it vs me going to a stealership, putting up with their BS, and getting/ordering a car there?

About the only thing I can see is that I can order what I want with my money from the comfort of my own home, versus F'ing around with the stealership to do the same thing (I prefer ordering over in stock).

It would seem to me that stealerships are now finding out that instead of having a lock on the new car market like they've had for...ever...that they're at risk of competing with online ordering. Suck it up stealerships, almost every other public business has had to figure out how to compete with online shopping, you will to - and hopefully the Gov won't F us all and make Tesla have independent stealerships also.

 

[Fern]

Personally I'm not against private, independent dealerships. It's just why in fuck wouldn't those private independent dealerships also have online auto sales?

Independent dealerships do have online sales. It's how I purchased mine. I only went to the dealership to pick it up (they didn't have the model I wanted in inventory) and complete the paperwork.

Also, I'd like to know what's stopping any of them from selling Teslas? (Other than at this point, Tesla themselves?)

We see mixed-brand dealerships all the time. Why not sell Tesla as well?

I think Tesla is what's stopping them.

Seems pretty clear to me that Tesla doesn't want to use dealerships.

Fern

 

[theeedude]

Liberal California is teaching Republican Ohio how the free markets work.

 

[Zaap]

They're not afraid of Tesla.

They are afraid of Ford, GM, Toyota, selling directly to consumers putting them out of business.

Fair enough. But my argument is that the independent dealers should already be doing themselves what Tesla and others are doing- streamline the process. Lots of people -me for one- simply hate their old-school approach to selling cars, with annoying sales-drones, and crude attempts at high-pressure sales tactics. In this day and age, businesses should be more saavy than that, and realize that people have a lot of choice to exercise (and are going to exercise it) when buying a $20k-$40K-$50K+ item.

 

[theeedude]

I'm pretty sure we've had this thread before.

There are a lot of good reasons to prevent auto manufactures from selling online.

E.g.: IIRC Tesla is located in CA. I live in NC. An auto is generally your second most expensive (asset) purchase. If I do business with Tesla, who aren't licensed in NC and have a problem I'm pretty much helpless. My state (NC) has no jurisdiction over Tesla.

It works the same way for health insurance and many other products.

GOP wants to force states to allow insurance from other states to be sold across state lines. But not cars.

 

[Zaap]

Shutup senseamp. This isn't strictly a Dem/Rep issue, but I realize your crude mind is stuck on that bullshit.

 

[Zaap]

Independent dealerships do have online sales. It's how I purchased mine. I only went to the dealership to pick it up (they didn't have the model I wanted in inventory) and complete the paperwork.

Same for me. It was the perfect way to buy the car with the least amount of bullshit/wasted time involved.

 

[theeedude]

Shutup senseamp. This isn't strictly a Dem/Rep issue, but I realize your crude mind is stuck on that bullshit.

You shut up. It is a Dem/Rep issue.

 

[Fern]

GOP wants to force states to allow insurance from other states to be sold across state lines. But not cars.

You had to work pretty hard to miss the point..

HI is a good analogy to my point about the possibility of a state's citizens having a problem with a company. In the HI area if you purchase HI from an out-of-state provider and there is a dispute over some expensive medical bill you have no where to to turn for resolution. If the HI company is licensed in your state you can go to state commission for resolution.

Fern

 

[Victorian Gray]

How do you know that they're republican?

Do you really believe that all people who own a business are republican?

That's absurd.

Fern

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/05/news-flash-car-dealers-are-republicans.html

 

[Victorian Gray]

All the deeply republican car dealership owners were forced out of their business when the government pushed to close many of them while they had part ownership of them.

Sorry, no such thing happened.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/chrysler.asp

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/05/news-flash-car-dealers-are-republicans.html

 

[zinfamous]

Even though I know you're not serious, I'll respond anyway.

Tesla's aren't sold in any dealership. Allowing them to continue their business model doesn't take jobs away from dealerships already operating. I suppose you could try and make the argument that forcing Tesla to have dealerships creates jobs, but it also raises prices and forces them to go from a JIT production model to a inventory based (I am only guessing they are a JIT model).

The current dealership model is a bad model anyway, at least for new cars. Car manufactures produce hundreds of thousands of cars that just sit there. Having a Chevy (or whatever brand) showroom with one of each current model to test drive and then you "order" your car makes a lot more sense. They can keep some inventory on hand for those that require a sign and drive "deal", but for the rest of us, finding that perfect car and getting it sent to us in a few weeks is fine. Also, that entirely eliminates natural disaster damage. How many dealerships "lost" inventory due to Katrina, or more realistically, how many people bought flood cars without knowing?

that's how I see it. If you are in the market for a Tesla, you are not in the market for any other vehicle. They really aren't competing with any other manufacturer, not even electrics/hybrids, due to price premium.

These guys aren't selling Teslas, so what is their problem? They may have an argument if they are concerned with other businesses doing this, but there is no cost advantage that Tesla's sales model has over them--their cars are already far more expensive.

 

[theeedude]

You had to work pretty hard to miss the point..

HI is a good analogy to my point about the possibility of a state's citizens having a problem with a company. In the HI area if you purchase HI from an out-of-state provider and there is a dispute over some expensive medical bill you have no where to to turn for resolution. If the HI company is licensed in your state you can go to state commission for resolution.

Fern

I think you are missing the point, when it's staring you in the face.
What you describe is how things work now. Insurance is currently regulated in the consumer's home state. GOP idea of allowing selling insurance across lines would mean that the insurer would be regulated in it's friendly home state, and not the consumer's home state, and you would have to go to the insurer's home state commission for resolution, where you will likely be told to pound sand.

 

[Fern]

I think you are missing the point, when it's staring you in the face.
What you describe is how things work now. Insurance is currently regulated in the consumer's home state. GOP idea of allowing selling insurance across lines would mean that the insurer would be regulated in it's friendly home state, and not the consumer's home state, and you would have to go to the insurer's home state commission for resolution, where you will likely be told to pound sand.

Well, you're commenting upon some proposed legislation or idea. I don't which bill it is or if you're correct. I do know it not germane to this thread and that HI proposals need their own thread.

Fern

 

[unokitty]

I'm pretty sure we've had this thread before...
Fern

Ohio Dealers Renew Assault Against Tesla Motors Sales

This was a follow-up to Ohio car dealers' original attempt to remove Tesla from the state through legislation.

As with the current Senate Bill 260, the proposed legislation would have made it illegal for the Ohio BMV to issue dealer licenses to vehicle manufacturers.

However, instead of putting the language on the Senate floor as a standalone bill, the ban was inserted as an amendment to Senate Bill 137--an unrelated bill that required Ohio drivers to move to the left while passing roadside maintenance vehicles.

Ohio is one of several states where local car-dealer associations have challenged Tesla's unorthodox sales model, forcing owners in some areas to skirt the law to get their cars.

So far, anti-Tesla legislation has been defeated in Massachusetts, Minnesota, North Carolina, and New York, while Arizona, Colorado, Texas, and Virginia do not permit new Tesla ompany-owned stores to open.

Tesla can already sell cars directly in Massachusetts, Minnesota, North Carolina, and New York.

No one has to buy a car from Tesla.

Their direct sales model allows them to sell a better car cheaper than a traditional dealer. If the traditional car dealers can compete on service or price, why are they resorting making cash payments, err campaign contributions, to state politicians and lobbying to restrict competition?

Should you desire to deal with a traditional dealer, and pay a premium for that... That would remain your option.

Me, I don't have that desire and would rather buy directly from Tesla or another manufacturer. Neither to I have a desire for new anti-competitive legislation that props up inefficient business models such as existing car dealerships.

So, why would you advocate a new law that restricts my ability to buy directly from Tesla?

Uno

 

[cubby1223]

Even though I know you're not serious, I'll respond anyway.

Tesla's aren't sold in any dealership. Allowing them to continue their business model doesn't take jobs away from dealerships already operating. I suppose you could try and make the argument that forcing Tesla to have dealerships creates jobs, but it also raises prices and forces them to go from a JIT production model to a inventory based (I am only guessing they are a JIT model).

It does take jobs away when Ford & GM are legally allowed direct sales too.

The current dealership model is a bad model anyway, at least for new cars. Car manufactures produce hundreds of thousands of cars that just sit there. Having a Chevy (or whatever brand) showroom with one of each current model to test drive and then you "order" your car makes a lot more sense. They can keep some inventory on hand for those that require a sign and drive "deal", but for the rest of us, finding that perfect car and getting it sent to us in a few weeks is fine. Also, that entirely eliminates natural disaster damage. How many dealerships "lost" inventory due to Katrina, or more realistically, how many people bought flood cars without knowing?

That's all great so long as the natural disaster doesn't hit where the cars are stored!


I don't even understand what people are arguing!

If you don't like dealerships, that is fine. But that doesn't prevent you from acknowledging the reasons why the dealership owners don't want direct-sale Tesla's. You don't have to weave elaborate stories to reinforce your dislike of dealerships.

You have an opinion. The dealership owners have an opinion. You can choose to not like the other's opinion, but at least have the common decency to acknowledge that they do have a right to have an opinion that disagrees with yours.

 

[smackababy]

It does take jobs away when Ford & GM are legally allowed direct sales too.



That's all great so long as the natural disaster doesn't hit where the cars are stored!


I don't even understand what people are arguing!

If you don't like dealerships, that is fine. But that doesn't prevent you from acknowledging the reasons why the dealership owners don't want direct-sale Tesla's. You don't have to weave elaborate stories to reinforce your dislike of dealerships.

You have an opinion. The dealership owners have an opinion. You can choose to not like the other's opinion, but at least have the common decency to acknowledge that they do have a right to have an opinion that disagrees with yours.

So, because Tesla can sell cars online directly, other companies who don't even offer competing products should be allowed to get legislation to stop them because they might lose jobs if the manufacture's decide to change their business model completely. Ford, GM, etc, they are set up to bulk manufacture and send that inventory to the dealers for storage. If they went to an online business model (and cut the dealers out) they'd have to ramp down production, custom install everything the dealer currently does, and store their inventory somewhere. That is highly unlikely to happen.

Should we get legislation that Vizio can't sell TV's directly to the consumers because Wal-Mart might lose some business?

 

[JManInPhoenix]

And unlike what the dealer spokesman said in the above article, I've never felt that any car dealer that I've ever dealt with was "an advocate for consumers." My experience is that the only thing that the car dealer ever advocated for was their own profit. Then again, I've only bought a handful of cars. Perhaps you have had a different experience?
Uno

Agree. That is one reason I absolutely hate buying a car is dealing with all of the bullshit & phony games (let me ask my manager). My last car I bought from a "no haggle" dealership - the price listed on the windshield was pretty much the cost before taxes. This dealship had their profit margin built in so you could take it or leave it. My car was $5K less at the no haggle place (yeah I could have spent hours at a conventional dealership and probably gotten the price down to that but my sanity & time are more important).

 

[Brovane]

I'm pretty sure we've had this thread before.

There are a lot of good reasons to prevent auto manufactures from selling online.

E.g.: IIRC Tesla is located in CA. I live in NC. An auto is generally your second most expensive (asset) purchase. If I do business with Tesla, who aren't licensed in NC and have a problem I'm pretty much helpless. My state (NC) has no jurisdiction over Tesla.

It works the same way for health insurance and many other products.

I thought states already outlawed direct sales anyway. And you can't just make an exception for one manufacturer.

Anyway, in the other thread were a bunch of reasons Tesla shouldn't be allowed to sell online.

Fern

So what would be the problem with Tesla being licensed to sell Autos in NC directly to the consumer? Just require the company to be licensed if there is concern about consumers having problems. From what I have been reading the Dealerships don't want Tesla to be able to sell directly period regardless if they are licensed in the state or not. The States that don't allow Tesla to be licensed to sell cars are forcing Tesla to sell the cars online to people in the state without being licensed. Is this like one of the things when somebody creates a problem and then complains about the problem they just created?

 

[Mr.IncrediblyBored]

Christ, a couple of you are dense. Tesla has showrooms all over the country already.

http://www.teslamotors.com/findus

What is the difference between a dealership and a Tesla showroom? Ownership. The same number of people are employed in either case.

Tesla needs direct sale stores to better control the sales experience. It keeps them from getting marginalized in a huge showroom with a bunch of competing brands.

Fern, do you bitch about Apple stores? What about McDonalds? Thousands of manufactured products are available through corporate owned stores. Cars should be no different.