Oh, Ukraine... silly, silly, stupid Ukraine

[zsdersw]

http://www.euronews.com/2012/12/09/ukraine-anti-gay-activists-release-gas-at-lgbt-protest/

Hundreds of Ukrainian lesbian and gay activists have joined a rally in the centre of Kiev, defying a court order.

Protesters denounced a proposed new law that would ban any positive depiction of homosexuals including gay pride marches.

Clashes broke-out after anti-gay activists tried to disrupt the rally by letting off gas in the crowd.

Several people were arrested.

One protester said: “We came out to protest against the draft law which restricts my personal rights, human rights in general and freedom of the press.”

Another woman was angry that the demonstration had not been approved: “On December 10, it’s World Human Rights Day. But it seems to be irrelevant here in Ukraine. Authorities and their representatives are preventing our supporters from joining us here.”

The so-called “anti-gay propaganda” bill sailed through its first reading in parliament in October.

Under the draft law, anyone who imports, produces or distributes this kind of material could face up to five years in jail.

A very clear example of how far the US has come on GLBT issues.

 

[Pr0d1gy]

A very clear example of how far the US has come on GLBT issues.

Not far enough. This is a liberty/human rights issue. It is time for us to stop worrying about what people do in the privacy of their own home.

Being gay isn't a threat to national security, the economy, or anything else other than the sensibilities of some people who believe a bunch of fairy tales should tell them how to live their lives unless it prevents them from using said fairy tales to judge other people despite the fact that said fairy tales clearly says you shouldn't judge other people. In those cases it is perfectly acceptable for them to ignore said fairy tales and assume the role of their God despite the fact that it is completely forbidden.

Yeah, pretty stupid huh?

 

[AnitaPeterson]

And this is why Ukraine has no chance to ever gain EU member status, and will fall back into Moscow's arms...

 

[nehalem256]

http://www.euronews.com/2012/12/09/ukraine-anti-gay-activists-release-gas-at-lgbt-protest/

EDIT:<remove text that was not by zsdersw, and suppose to be my commentary, sorry!>

A very clear example of how far the US has come on GLBT issues.

EDIT: <move my commentary here> Its almost likes those Republicans are not radical on GLBT issues at all.

Not far enough. This is a liberty/human rights issue. It is time for us to stop worrying about what people do in the privacy of their own home.

Being gay isn't a threat to national security, the economy, or anything else other than the sensibilities of some people who believe a bunch of fairy tales should tell them how to live their lives unless it prevents them from using said fairy tales to judge other people despite the fact that said fairy tales clearly says you shouldn't judge other people. In those cases it is perfectly acceptable for them to ignore said fairy tales and assume the role of their God despite the fact that it is completely forbidden.

Yeah, pretty stupid huh?

I assume you are talking about Gay Marriage. Since that is the only thing LGBT people haven't gotten in the US. Pretty sure marriages are not normally performed in people houses.

 

[nehalem256]

Being gay isn't a threat to national security, the economy, or anything else other than the sensibilities of some people who believe a bunch of fairy tales should tell them how to live their lives unless it prevents them from using said fairy tales to judge other people despite the fact that said fairy tales clearly says you shouldn't judge other people. In those cases it is perfectly acceptable for them to ignore said fairy tales and assume the role of their God despite the fact that it is completely forbidden.

Yeah, pretty stupid huh?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine#Religion

One 2006 survey put the number of non-religious in Ukraine at approximately 62.5% of the population

Claiming that opposition to homosexuality is based on Christianity would seem to be pretty stupid.

 

[werepossum]

Wow. I did not know the Ukraine was either that irreligious or that anti-gay. Seems odd that those two things go together. One failing of the CIA world fact book is that it breaks down religion only by percent of the religiously affiliated, not by total population.

One thought here - Ukraine has a very high rate of HIV/AIDS infection for a modern, non-African Old World nation. This may be a reaction to that - although for some reason I thought HIV was primarily a hetero disease spread by prostitutes in Ukraine and Russia.

 

[Screech]

Wow.

Looks like we finally have a contender for the "as retarded as apple maps" prize.

 

[Greenman]

Not far enough. This is a liberty/human rights issue. It is time for us to stop worrying about what people do in the privacy of their own home.

Being gay isn't a threat to national security, the economy, or anything else other than the sensibilities of some people who believe a bunch of fairy tales should tell them how to live their lives unless it prevents them from using said fairy tales to judge other people despite the fact that said fairy tales clearly says you shouldn't judge other people. In those cases it is perfectly acceptable for them to ignore said fairy tales and assume the role of their God despite the fact that it is completely forbidden.

Yeah, pretty stupid huh?

I thought sodomy was legal now? Other than that, I wasn't aware of any laws governing bedroom behavior between consenting adults. I guess money can't change hands directly, but other than that, isn't it "anything goes".

 

[zsdersw]

I assume you are talking about Gay Marriage. Since that is the only thing LGBT people haven't gotten in the US. Pretty sure marriages are not normally performed in people houses.

I didn't say this: "Its almost likes those Republicans are not radical on GLBT issues at all."

Yet you quoted me as saying it. Post reported.

Why should I stop criticizing Republicans just because the Ukraine is worse? The GOP in general and a sizable chunk of the people who vote for them in particular still has a lot of maturing to do on GLBT issues.

 

[nehalem256]

I didn't say this: "Its almost likes those Republicans are not radical on GLBT issues at all."

Hey sorry, I appear to have screwed up cutting up the quotes. It meant to add that commentary myself.

Yet you quoted me as saying it. Post reported.

Why should I stop criticizing Republicans just because the Ukraine is worse? The GOP in general and a sizable chunk of the people who vote for them in particular still has a lot of maturing to do on GLBT issues.

Because people like you try to make it seem like Republicans are crazy extremists for not support same-sex marriage. You should stop making claims that are clearly untrue.

 

[zsdersw]

Because people like you try to make it seem like Republicans are crazy extremists for not support same-sex marriage. You should stop making claims that are clearly untrue.

The Republican party is not a friend on GLBT issues... and has actively worked to thwart gay marriage, adoption, and ENDA.

The fact that the Ukraine is much much worse than even the most extreme US Republican doesn't excuse the Republican party for their idiocy on GLBT issues.

 

[nehalem256]

The Republican party is not a friend on GLBT issues... and has actively worked to thwart gay marriage, adoption, and ENDA.

I never said they were a friend. I said they were not extreme.

Democrats are extreme.
Ukraine is extreme.
Republicans are moderate.

 

[zsdersw]

I never said they were a friend. I said they were not extreme.

Democrats are extreme.
Ukraine is extreme.
Republicans are moderate.

Extreme by US standards, yes.. they are.

If we're going to use other countries to judge our own political parties both the Democratic and Republican parties would be moderate.

 

[nehalem256]

Extreme by US standards, yes.. they are.

If we're going to use other countries to judge our own political parties both the Democratic and Republican parties would be moderate.

Redefining marriage is an extremist position.

EDIT: If you think Democrats are moderate on LGBT issues please point out someone more extreme to the left.

 

[zsdersw]

Redefining marriage is an extremist position.

I don't grant that allowing gay marriage is redefining it, but even if it was.. no, it's not an extremist position.

EDIT: If you think Democrats are moderate on LGBT issues please point out someone more extreme to the left.

The Green party.

 

[nehalem256]

I don't grant that allowing gay marriage is redefining it, but even if it was.. no, it's not an extremist position.

Then you sir are being dishonest.

The Green party.

And what position do they hold on LGBT issues that is more extreme than the Democratic Party?

 

[zsdersw]

Then you sir are being dishonest.

Not at all. You're making the assumption that your belief is a fact. It is not.

And what position do they hold on LGBT issues that is more extreme than the Democratic Party?

http://www.ontheissues.org/celeb/Green_Party_Civil_Rights.htm

Defining (much less decrying) "heterosexism" and affirmative action mandates are not a part of the Democratic party. The Green party would make GLBT issues front and center in their legislative agenda.. whereas the Democratic party does not.

 

[nehalem256]

http://www.ontheissues.org/celeb/Green_Party_Civil_Rights.htm

Defining (much less decrying) "heterosexism" and affirmative action mandates are not a part of the Democratic party. The Green party would make GLBT issues front and center in their legislative agenda.. whereas the Democratic party does not.

Wow, I'm glad I missed bfest or I would have a mess to clean up.

So I think now we have:

Green Party
Democratic Party
Republican Party
Ukraine
Iran/Afghanistan/Uganda

Still looks like Republicans are the moderates to me.

 

[zsdersw]

Still looks like Republicans are the moderates to me.

Not in the US they're not.

 

[nehalem256]

Not in the US they're not.

Only, because there is no real right-wing with regards to LGBT right in the US.

But, of course you don't want to admit that, because pushing your sames-sex marriage agenda is based on portraying the Republicans as extremists, when in actuality you are the extremist.

 

[zsdersw]

Only, because there is no real right-wing with regards to LGBT right in the US.

Sure there is: the Tea Party and all of the various right-wing groups vehemently against GLBT persons and interests. All of these people vote Republican, and their beliefs are a part of the Republican platform. The Constitution party could be considered to the right of the Republican party, but they're smaller on the right than the fringe parties on the left are.

But, of course you don't want to admit that, because pushing your sames-sex marriage agenda is based on portraying the Republicans as extremists, when in actuality you are the extremist.

My same-sex agenda doesn't depend upon portraying the Republican party as extremist. It depends on portraying them (quite correctly) as the party still under the iron grip of idiotic social conservatives and evangelicals whose opinions on GLBT issues are long since past their expiration date.

 

[Jaskalas]

I get the idea... dunno about the merits of arguing about it though.

Essentially, he's saying the Republicans are moderate cause there's no equivalent of Hitler running around championing the wholesale slaughter of the undesirables.

 

[zsdersw]

Wow, I'm glad I missed bfest or I would have a mess to clean up.

So I think now we have:

Green Party
Democratic Party
Republican Party
Ukraine
Iran/Afghanistan/Uganda

Still looks like Republicans are the moderates to me.

Actually, what we have is this:

Socialist Party of America (http://socialistparty-usa.net/)
Green Party
Democratic Party
Republican Party
Ukraine
Iran/Afghanistan/Uganda

 

[zsdersw]

I get the idea... dunno about the merits of arguing about it though.

Essentially, he's saying the Republicans are moderate cause there's no equivalent of Hitler running around championing the wholesale slaughter of the undesirables.

It's a wash, though, because the Democrats are moderate compared to, say, any socialist country in the world.

 

[nehalem256]

Actually, what we have is this:

Socialist Party of America (http://socialistparty-usa.net/)
Green Party
Democratic Party
Republican Party
Ukraine
Iran/Afghanistan/Uganda

And how is it possible to be to the left of the Green Party on LGBT issues? Is the socialist party advocating for forcing people into gay education camps where they are forced to perform gay sex acts?