Oh man, I am SO ticked off at....

[MichaelD]

...EMSComputing. Remember this thread? where I told you I'd keep you updated? Well, I'm back. I have information for all of you, that could possibly save you a major headache.

I've already informed you that I received my case fans and that they were well-packed. Stupid me; I expected the same thing for my case.

Well, ain't life a b*tch. They shipped my case via UPS Ground (what I paid for) three days ago...not that their website order tracking app showed that; I had to find out by calling customer service and languishing on enternalhold for about 15 minutes.

I followed the case's progress thru the various states, until today, when it was delivered to the office of the apartment complex that I live in.

I walk into the office expecting to see a big old brown cardboard box, that my case was lovingly packed in. What did I find?

They took the actual box that the case comes in, slapped a UPS shipping sticker on it, and threw it in the UPS truck!

I'm dead serious. I wouldn't kid about my money. The damn box looks like it got hit by a truck. There are actual holes that you can stick your finger thru in the box. I don't live in the best area...(read, I don't trust the folks that run my apartment complex) here's this big old red box that says ANTEC COMPUTER CASE!!!!! 400 WATTS!!!!! IT'S AWESOME!!!! STEAL ME!!!! ( you get the idea ) sitting in the middle of the office, with a UPS sticker with my name on it. Frickin' nice.

It's a darn good thing that Antec packages these things well. The top piece of styrofoam was broken into three pieces. It's obvious that a group of angry guys played ice hockey and used this box as a puck.

There is no physical damage to the case. Believe me, I took off every single panel, and held it up, at an angle, under a flourescent light. Amazing. I would have a better chance of meeting The Pope in a strip club than the odds of this case arriving undamaged. Now, I don't know if the PS is ok. I guess I'll find that out Saturday, when I transfer the guts of my present case into this case.

You better believe that their customer service email is going to get an earful. You think I'm long-winded now? Just you wait unitl I cut and past the email I send them, to here, so you can read it.

Please forgive me for whining. I honestly expected better from a big Internet Reseller. If my PS got damaged, I wouldn't be surprised. But guess what? (What Mike, tell us, please!) If it is, I have to pay the shipping & insurance on a 34-pound box to send it back. Doesnt' that suck?

Well, I told you I'd report. I've reported. I'll let you guys know what EMS says (I will tell them that I AM EXPECTING A RESPONSE). Thank you for listening to me gripe. Mike out.

 

[SaturnX]

Damn... that's some crazy stuff, at least you got the case in one piece, better they having it completly destroyed. But yeah I completely agree with you about a sternly written email, complaining about the shipping methods. What they did just wasn't smart at all. Well I'm glad to see that things more/less worked out for.

--Mark

 

[ledzepp98]

i'm glad i didn't order my sx-830 from emscomputing...i was very close to doing it. i decided to spend the extra money and just go to crapUSA and buy it (mainly for the ability to have it immediately). if other people are looking to buy the sx-830, egghead (not newegg) has it here and in general i have had very good experiences with them. to top it all off, their price is very good considering their flat $6.95 shipping price.

 

[Pakman]

How were you expecting them to ship it to you? In another box? A big heavy crate? It wouldn't be economical for them to ship it to you any other way than the box it comes in. I ordered my Antec case from Onvia a while back and they too shipped it in the original box... Same thing with monitors... I had no problem with it. If you wanna write an angry letter, write it to UPS...

 

[MichaelD]

Pakman,

Hi there. I was honestly expecting a response like yours. It's an intellingent response; one that I myself would come up with. I respectfully offer the following rebuttal:

1. Yep. Financially, for them, it makes sense; just slap a sticker on it. Saves us the $1.32 we paid for this big box, plus the $.23 we paid for the bubblewrap. For a grand total of $2.55. For the record, a long time ago (1990) I worked retail and shipped purchased goods. We bought bubble wrap by the truckload, literally. It's dirt cheap when purchased in massive quantities like Internet retailers of all kinds do.

2. Yep. Financially, it makes no sense for them ship the way they did w/my case. If it's damaged, I have to pay shipping to send it back to them, but THEY have to pay shipping to send me a new one. They'll eventually get credit for the damaged goods when they RMA it to the manufacturer, but they must absorb the shipping cost.

3. Based on the above two facts, it is in their best interest to ensure that all products they ship are sufficiently packaged to ensure no returns. Kind of like I tell my superiors when they try to rush me; "do you want it done now, or do you want it done right?"

I hope you can see my point of view. Later.

 

[novice]

While I supported your previous rants against EMS Computing based on your recounting their poor responses to your reasonable inquiries, I have to side with Pakman on this one. I have ordered 5 different cases from 4 different vendors (multiwave, newegg, hardware pro and onlinepcoutlet) over the years and all of them shipped the cases in the original manufacturer's box with just the styrofoam packing material. I guess I was just lucky as all the cases arrived in just fine condition. The only casualty was the barebones system that shipped from hardwarepro. Somehow in transit, the heatsink and fan managed to snap off one of the tabs on the socket so i had to rma the motherboard. As for the manufacturer's box not being sufficient to protect the case, what do you think the manufacturer ships them to the vendor in? Your other concerns with this vendor sounded reasonable to me, but I think you may be reaching a little on this one. You may have a legitimate gripe with UPS, though!
Chuck

 

[fishingeek]

My case came in the original box too. I got it from googlegear but I went wtih FedX because they seem to treat things better. My box came in great shape.

 

[Sephy]

That's weird. My 1030B came from EMS in a brown box, of course, no original manufacturing box.

 

[randomlinh]

i've never gotten a case that wasn't shipped in it's original box. And from what i've seen from the comp shows i went to.. they were all shipped the same. It actually is fine.. the way they ship it (well, for enlight cases anyway)... there's enough foam for no movement. the problem here lies in how UPS handles this. They just chuck it around.

 

[MichaelD]

Again, I had a feeling that my post would illict many responses, such as yours (Novice/FishingGeek). I fully agree and understand you position. I'm sure that thousands of folks have received their goods, packed in OEM packing w/o damage. I stand by my position that it's a risky business practice.

I'm almost 100% sure that when UPS picked up the box, it was in pristine condition. I know for a fact that they play hockey with your package; back in the early 90's, I worked for them during the Christmas rush as temporary help. I never bashed a box, but I saw some amazingly bad stuff. I know it's them that bashed the box, but guess what? It's still EMS's fault because they didn't ensure that my purchase arrived to me undamaged. It did arrive undamaged (well, I don't know about the PS yet) but that was luck of the draw....you should see this box. Pitiful. It looks like it was dragged under a truck...from Florida to Texas.

I'm sure that my nastymail won't be the first nor the last that EMS receives. My conscience will be clear though, and I won't order from them again. Thanks for your opinions and responses. (Warm fuzzies all around.)

 

[compuwiz1]

Cases are shipped in orginal boxes. They are designed for it. I've built many systems and have never received them any other way. Want better case packaging? It would not be without higher costs. The case packages are designed for shipping, when handled properly. Unfortunately, it does not seem that UPS understands the proper way to treat a package lately. The real rant about that should be toward them. People must not be making a big enough stink about their shipping practices, because they sure don't seem to be doing anything about it.
If I was a manager, I would put out a reward for the names of anyone witnessed abusing a package. I would fire anyone, on the spot caught tossing, or otherwise abusing a package. It would not take long to get the message across. When I was a manager with a corporation, I was known for my draconian ways, but I got results, damnit! :Q

 

[dowxp]

you know, everyone does that... they dont do more than they have to..

 

[MichaelD]

Wow, a response from a Real Internet Retailer! Hi Compuwiz! Seriously, thanks for your responses. I'm sure you felt obligated to respond, and that's cool. I'm looking at this from a consumer's point of view. I'm not new to the the Internet/via US mail purchasing scene...Iv'e been around awhile. I've had my share of busted stuff/bad stuff/non-functioning stuff...it happens. Let me share a positive experience. This is not in anyway an endorsement of said company.

I purchased a mobo/stick of memory/CPU/HSF/Casefan from PCBooost.com. They took the OEM mobo box as well as all the other OEM packaging, and put it in a BIG old brown box, with 109 pounds of styrofoam peanuts. Overkill, if you ask me. I even remember remarking out loud; "holy sh*t..look at all these peanut things on my floor!" But you know what? I got everything in one piece. Not a single scratch on anything. That's the way you do business. That is why I've bought stuff from them 3x and will buy again in the future.

I do see things from the reseller's side as well. You need to make a profit. You ship by "approved by the BBB methods." Fine. Unfortunately, when UPS slices and dices that CPU, and Joe Consumer calls you, you say "take it up w/UPS...It was fine when it left here." What is wrong with this picture? Can you see Joe Consumer taking his business elsewhere? I can.

No, I've never done business w/you. I'm not shooting "at you". Just voicing my opinion, that's all. Love, Peace and Chicken Grease...or something like that. See ya in the forums!

 

[compuwiz1]

MichaelD, point taken. I am as much of a consumer as you. All the computers in my house and most of my relative's computers were built by me. All I was saying, is the cartons, at least the ones I have recieved, appeared to be made for shipping. All of my cases have arrived in good condition, so therefore, I never had a reason to be displeased about the way they were packed. More packaging would result in more weight. This is not a business person's point of view, but one where the cost would have to be passed on to you, the consumer, in the form of increased shipping weight costs.

Since I do have a a business, I do ultimately have to accept responsibility for the condition my customers might receive a package in.

 

[MichaelD]

Comp,

You're a true Gentleman. I like good conversation. When the Athlon 4's hit the market, I'll be looking you up. See you in the forums.

 

[tigerbait]

The Antec SX830 I ordered for a friend from Egghead came in the Antec box with the UPS label. It was packaged well, so I didnt sweat it.

 

[gygheyzeus]

MichaelD, although your complaint is completely valid, and I understand where you are coming from, your complaint should be with UPS, not with EMSComputing. Just like many other people have said here, or are thinking to themselves, its simply not economical to pack a box inside another box.

I really hope your PS is okay!

 

[GremlinHater]

Did you buy an Antec SX1040? I was REALLY tempted to buy from them along with BA4800 speaker's but I opted not to due to inconsistent reports of there service through retailer review sites. I decided to pay a few more bucks to go through techstore and ucdweb for the peace of mind though I hope I made the right decision as I haven't gotten my packages yet.


If you want my opinion on this, UPS to me is a packaging and delivery service. I have a friend who works for UPS so we usually get a lot of deliveries through that way, all the PACKAGES I have ever remembered in MY WHOLE LIFE have come with UPS packaging with many times the OEM product being in it's orginal condition and foam peanuts. A few of them have been battered but were alright in the end. From obvious reports that I have no doubt are valid in many cases, UPS is inconsistent about how they handle packaging. Antec's have been reported to be built like tanks so I wouldn't mind too much if the packaging was a little battered though i would be SERIOUSLY pissed off if it had holes in it or the package was fragile material. UPS obviously doesn't care much for the consumer as I can not imagine how in the process of a 2 or 3 day shipping, holes were made from lifting the box from the warehouse to the truck to your doorstep. And I HAVE heard of similiar situations from other people like Mich about their packages arriving with rips, holes, packaging held on by a thin strip of tape . There is no way in h#ll you can justify such poor service that might cost a consumer to have to send it back through that same service to have the same treatment and have the company call up saying the package arrived with more damage then said, well no duh, think about the possibilities...

PS. In no way do I consider this opinion logical or appropriate, in other words a mindless rant to an injustice that is *almost* praised by people who try to make excuses for UPS by stating it should come in the OEM box which would be OK if not for the fact of the condition of that package when it arrives, I'm sure the OEM people scrounge around in the deepest dumpsters to find the worst packaging to give to UPS who delivers it in the exact same condition given. (inhale breath) Furthermore I am a teenager who really shouldn't be talking now as my better (supposedly) elders (who I see as big kids with mortgages and bigger tantrums) would beat me down with a bamboo stick for speaking out of line. Alright I'm done, and yes, I feel better, though after a few flames at me I'm sure I'll be feeling the same.

 

[TunaBoo]

<< ...EMSComputing. Remember this thread? where I told you I'd keep you updated? Well, I'm back. I have information for all of you, that could possibly save you a major headache.

I've already informed you that I received my case fans and that they were well-packed. Stupid me; I expected the same thing for my case.

Well, ain't life a b*tch. They shipped my case via UPS Ground (what I paid for) three days ago...not that their website order tracking app showed that; I had to find out by calling customer service and languishing on enternalhold for about 15 minutes.

I followed the case's progress thru the various states, until today, when it was delivered to the office of the apartment complex that I live in.

I walk into the office expecting to see a big old brown cardboard box, that my case was lovingly packed in. What did I find?

They took the actual box that the case comes in, slapped a UPS shipping sticker on it, and threw it in the UPS truck!

I'm dead serious. I wouldn't kid about my money. The damn box looks like it got hit by a truck. There are actual holes that you can stick your finger thru in the box. I don't live in the best area...(read, I don't trust the folks that run my apartment complex) here's this big old red box that says ANTEC COMPUTER CASE!!!!! 400 WATTS!!!!! IT'S AWESOME!!!! STEAL ME!!!! ( you get the idea ) sitting in the middle of the office, with a UPS sticker with my name on it. Frickin' nice.

It's a darn good thing that Antec packages these things well. The top piece of styrofoam was broken into three pieces. It's obvious that a group of angry guys played ice hockey and used this box as a puck.

There is no physical damage to the case. Believe me, I took off every single panel, and held it up, at an angle, under a flourescent light. Amazing. I would have a better chance of meeting The Pope in a strip club than the odds of this case arriving undamaged. Now, I don't know if the PS is ok. I guess I'll find that out Saturday, when I transfer the guts of my present case into this case.

You better believe that their customer service email is going to get an earful. You think I'm long-winded now? Just you wait unitl I cut and past the email I send them, to here, so you can read it.

Please forgive me for whining. I honestly expected better from a big Internet Reseller. If my PS got damaged, I wouldn't be surprised. But guess what? (What Mike, tell us, please!) If it is, I have to pay the shipping &amp; insurance on a 34-pound box to send it back. Doesnt' that suck?

Well, I told you I'd report. I've reported. I'll let you guys know what EMS says (I will tell them that I AM EXPECTING A RESPONSE). Thank you for listening to me gripe. Mike out. >>



MichaelD,

Remember me from the other thread (the crapper)? Ah yes, I might not have sympathized with you as much for your order being delayed (even though I had sympathy, I have just been a bit disgruntled lately and was crappy).

As for the case in the case box, I recently bought an Antec case (black with the swinging door, name eludes me. Sxho or something). I got it, and it was shipped just as yours was via UPS ground. It has some major problems, the side panels had like 2 1 inch round dents, and the PSU adapter (to fit my Enermax 351 whisper power supply in the bigger opening of the case) were bent in about 1 inch. Also, the bag filled with 200 screws broke open, filling my entire case with screws. It literally took me 30 minutes to get them all out, and the last screw I found wedged in a crevice last week. This really pissed me off, but to get an RMA I would have to pay about $30 to ship it back so I could get a new one. Seeing as I mod my case anyways, it is no big deal. My mods hide the damage so well you cannot tell it ever happened.

My motto when shipping stuff is ALWAYS pack it like you would expect to receive it, then put it in a bigger box with 3 inches of peanuts around if shipped via UPS or FedEx ground. If shipped via normal FedEx air, you can get away with less padding. When I am shipping out a $2,000 computer, I can weigh and computer the shipping charges. It will be like $34.95 via UPS ground or something like that. Then I put it in a much bigger peanut filled box and wrap it up. This ranges the cost to maybe $36.80. Size is not an issue as long as you are reasonable, and the weight increase is very small. To me, I find it RIDICULOUS when people are willing to spend $5 to insure a package, but not $2 to pack it right. I hate to break it to you, but unless you have 3 inches or more of tightly packed padding all the way around the box, your chances of a successful insurance claim are slim to none.

However, I understand where compuwiz is coming from. It defiantly does add cost and labor to the shipping process, and is often not needed to ship the case successfully. I have shipped many Genica cases like this before with no problems. However, these casts cost like $25 (tops) and weigh like 10 pounds. My case weighs a LOT more than that, and even though it is built many times studier, it is much more susceptible to damage.

Just the rants of a crack head computer store worker.

Peace out

 

[MichaelD]

GremlinHater,

NICE post! Very well put. You don't come across as a teenager who should....(insert your rant here!) LOL! &quot;Big Teenagers With Mortages&quot; you are SO correct, it ain't funny. You are well-prepared for the Old Fart Adult World. Have your fun now; it's all downhill from here.

Eh, you're correct though. At least to my way of thinking. You, and Compuwiz and others ARE correct when saying that Antec's factory packaging was meant to &quot;survive&quot; shipping. But guess what? That &quot;factory packing&quot; is just that; factory packing meant to get the product from the Antec plant (China?) to wherever, in one piece, ONCE. It's not meant to be bulletproof for a worldwide trip.

Let's personalize this situation for a moment. Anandtech (Godsend!) has a For Sale forum, correct? Right. If I'm selling an XYZ for $xyz, isn't it in my best interest to make sure that when you buy it, via PayPal or whatever (and I have your money!) that you receive that part in the exact same shape as when I shipped it? Yes it is. I'd feel personally responsible and guilty if you bought my Voodoo3 card, that I know darn well was working fine yesterday, and when ou got it, the GPU was all snapped-off at the pins.

Maybe I'm taking this a little far. I do understand the position of the folks who've respectfully disagreed w/me. I must say this is one of the more &quot;adult&quot; threads I've ever read on these forums! But, I also see things from Joe Consumer's point of view. I'll let this die now. I will post any reply I receive from EMS. I'm a fair-minded individual, you know!

 

[compuwiz1]

Uh, and I forgot to add that when I have built bare bones systems and sold them to forum members, guess what? The case was in it's original box, but it was then in a bigger box, with peanuts all around. Hey, MWave or whoever got the case to me, but I guess when my name goes on it, I'm not as trusting about what could happen to it along the way. :Q

 

[MichaelD]

OK, so much for letting this thread die. Oh well.

Compuwiz,
I am a realist. Really. I honestly think the damage to the box is directly related to it's weight of 34 pounds (per the UPS label; it certainly feels that heavy) A lighter box can be &quot;thrown around&quot; with little fear of damage; assuming the contents are sufficiently protected.

I was just flabbergasted when I saw the box. If my Photopoint account was still active, I'd post pics. BTW, they make you PAY for an account now. Sadness...that's another thread tho.

It just blew me away. From what I've seen so far, w/my limited (admitted) amount of Internet Purchasing Expertise, most of the time, resellers overpack. Case in point, the case fans I got from EMS. They put two OEM Antec (blisterpack) fans in a BiG Old Cardboard Box, with lots of newspaper. They were protected against Nuclear War. But my 34 pound case, with a delicate power supply, they throw to the wolves. Idiots in the shipping department? Prolly? Idiots in the shipping department following company policy that they'd get fired if they violated? Definitely. See? I do know the way it works! Later. Thanks for the great conversation. I 'm beat. Later. Zzzzzzzz

 

[compuwiz1]

Michael, what about Photoloft?

Mostly, I see people post family pics and stuff, but it would probably work.

 

[gogeeta13]

i got my sx1030 from ems as well. the first time it got damaged in shipping(ups ACTUALLY admitted to it). I called them up, had them look at the UPS status page, and they sent out a new case 2nd day UPS the next morning. It came with only a minor problem. one of the plastic feet had been &quot;banged&quot; and would not move right. A little filing and some epoxy and it was all good. While shipping may be lacking, they sure as hell do have good customer service.

 

[WhatWasIThinking]

I got an SX830 via UPS (bought from Directron) a couple of days ago. It also came in the Antec box. It was ok, but just barely. The styrofoam was fairly mangled. A removeable drive cage had come loose, and may have been the cause of the rip in the plastic screw bag that caused 10 zillion screws to be scattered all over the inside of the case, inside the bezel, and even inside the power supply. It took me about 45 minutes to get them all out. The only physical damage I could find was one pretty meaningless plastic tab broken off the inside of the bezel. I should have shelled out the extra 15 bucks for fedex, and I knew that when I bought it, but I was just too cheap.

EGJ