Oh hell yeah

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,359
126
:thumbsup:
This is so awesome. I really dont have much commentary except this is a HUGE victory for us. Keep the pendulum swinging in this direction! (two stories)


AT&T Could Owe You $146,000 - FISA violation means $36,500 per claimant, per four years of wiretapping

The Legality blog has an interesting read on just how much telecom providers like AT&T could owe their customers should the lawsuit against them for illegal wiretapping be allowed to proceed. While there are more than forty potential suits currently open against Sprint, Verizon and AT&T, the EFF's case against AT&T is the most highly visible, given it involved a 22-year former employee turned whistleblower. If the EFF case proceeds and it shows widespread violation of FISA laws, AT&T would be in some serious financial trouble:
Code provision 50 U.S.C. § 1810 imposes civil liability on any person (or entity) for each violation of FISA. Victims of illegal surveillance are entitled to recover $100 for each day they were wiretapped, or actual damages over $1000, whichever is greater. Additionally, FISA provides compensation for attorney?s fees and other costs of litigation. . . As you may imagine, one hundred dollars per day, per person adds up over four years. If the Hepting lawsuit is successful, AT&T could face damages of over $36,500 per claimant per year. Nearly every person with a computer or phone in the United States could be impacted.

AT&T serves 14.2 million broadband customers and roughly 70 million landline users. If they were forced to pay $146,000 to each landline customer, AT&T could be facing a total legal liability cost of $10,220,000,000,000.

While highly unlikely given AT&T's lobbying & legal prowess, these kind of numbers make it a little more clear why AT&T and Verizon have been spending millions in DC over the past few years in order to get legal immunity for their involvement in these programs. Congress is currently on vacation, but when they return the House will be tasked with deciding whether or not to fight, or support, these companies' request for immunity as they move to renew FISA.


Comcast Sued For Traffic Shaping (Again) Class action lawsuit springs up in DC

Last November a California man filed suit against Comcast for the company's traffic shaping practices, which involve forging TCP packets in order to throttle upstream p2p traffic. While Comcast insisting their brand of network management is "reasonable" might thwart the FCC's investigation into the practice, the courts may see things differently. A second, class-action lawsuit has sprung up in Washington DC.


According to a statement from the law firm involved, Comcast is misleading customers by saying they offer the "fastest Internet connection," because the ISP "intentionally blocks or impedes its customer's access to peer-to-peer file sharing." We're actually (almost) starting to feel bad for Comcast spokesman Charlie Douglas, who has been forced to repeat the same stock quote to hundreds of news outlets by now (including us):
"To be clear, Comcast does not, has not, and will not block any Web sites or online applications, including peer-to-peer services, and no one has demonstrated otherwise," said Comcast spokesman Charlie Douglas. Douglas said that a minority of their customers use peer-to-peer. "Sometimes we have to delay [the sharing] because of the volume of it," Douglas said, so that the rest of the company's customers aren't affected by the network being bogged down by peer-to-peer.
Comcast isn't commenting publicly on any lawsuits they're facing.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
88,054
55,548
136
Originally posted by: FoBoT
and bankrupting the telecoms benefits us, how?

No judgement that large would ever happen, and if it did it would be reduced on appeal. What you should really be asking is "does enforcing the law help us?". That's what this would be doing, and of course the answer is yes.
 

jonks

Lifer
Feb 7, 2005
13,918
20
81
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: FoBoT
and bankrupting the telecoms benefits us, how?

No judgement that large would ever happen, and if it did it would be reduced on appeal. What you should really be asking is "does enforcing the law help us?". That's what this would be doing, and of course the answer is yes.

Yeah, I don't think a $10 coupon towards next month's bill would be a victory :)
 

ahurtt

Diamond Member
Feb 1, 2001
4,283
0
0
Originally posted by: Arkaign
Originally posted by: FoBoT
and bankrupting the telecoms benefits us, how?

Means that breaking the law still brings a price along with it.

Unfortunately it is the customers who will suffer as they are left with no service when the company collapses. It would in no way shape or form benefit the economy if AT&T collapsed.
 

SSSnail

Lifer
Nov 29, 2006
17,458
83
86
Please, please abuse me, take what you want, beat me up whenever you like for whatever reasons, keep abusing me... as long as you feed me.


Pathetic.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,359
126
Originally posted by: ahurtt
Originally posted by: Arkaign
Originally posted by: FoBoT
and bankrupting the telecoms benefits us, how?

Means that breaking the law still brings a price along with it.

Unfortunately it is the customers who will suffer as they are left with no service when the company collapses. It would in no way shape or form benefit the economy if AT&T collapsed.

lol

So unlikely, realistically.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
88,054
55,548
136
Originally posted by: ahurtt
Originally posted by: Arkaign
Originally posted by: FoBoT
and bankrupting the telecoms benefits us, how?

Means that breaking the law still brings a price along with it.

Unfortunately it is the customers who will suffer as they are left with no service when the company collapses. It would in no way shape or form benefit the economy if AT&T collapsed.

The whole point of this (which is not lost on the justice system) is to punish the companies for breaking the law. Just because some guy comes up with some huge number doesn't mean that it actually has any bearing on what the final decision would be. They aren't going to destroy the telecommunications infrastructure of the United States because the telecom companies broke the law. With any luck though, they will sting them badly enough to make them think twice about doing it again.
 

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,736
1,379
126
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Originally posted by: ahurtt
Originally posted by: Arkaign
Originally posted by: FoBoT
and bankrupting the telecoms benefits us, how?

Means that breaking the law still brings a price along with it.

Unfortunately it is the customers who will suffer as they are left with no service when the company collapses. It would in no way shape or form benefit the economy if AT&T collapsed.

lol

So unlikely, realistically.

Not only is it unrealistic, but even if AT&T went bankrupt, their assets (the network and subscriber contracts) would be sold, and the operations would continue. Nobody would suddenly be without a phone company. This is America, if there's money to be spent on a service, there will be a company there to sell it to you. Hyperbole FTL.
 

3chordcharlie

Diamond Member
Mar 30, 2004
9,859
1
81
Originally posted by: FoBoT
and bankrupting the telecoms benefits us, how?

Your service would never even have a hiccup.

Stop sucking corporate dick and realize that criminals are criminals.
 

Mavtek3100

Senior member
Jan 15, 2008
524
0
0
FUCK!!!!! $146,000 to people with land lines! DAMN IT! I haven't had a land line in years!!!!!

:) :(
As far as Att going out of business, would it really be all that bad? I mean the cables would all still be there, wouldn't that mean they'd have to liquidate all their infrastructure to other companies like Google? That might actually be a good thing.
 

nonameo

Diamond Member
Mar 13, 2006
5,902
2
76
Well, it means they'll pay their employees less and charge their customers more. I don't think the exec's are going to let go of anything. You'd have to go after them personally, which I hope they do.
 

Nitemare

Lifer
Feb 8, 2001
35,461
4
81
Originally posted by: ahurtt
Originally posted by: Arkaign
Originally posted by: FoBoT
and bankrupting the telecoms benefits us, how?

Means that breaking the law still brings a price along with it.

Unfortunately it is the customers who will suffer as they are left with no service when the company collapses. It would in no way shape or form benefit the economy if AT&T collapsed.

maybe they can break them all up again and not allow them to merge back...
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
Originally posted by: ahurtt
Originally posted by: Arkaign
Originally posted by: FoBoT
and bankrupting the telecoms benefits us, how?

Means that breaking the law still brings a price along with it.

Unfortunately it is the customers who will suffer as they are left with no service when the company collapses. It would in no way shape or form benefit the economy if AT&T collapsed.
So take those directly involved and throw them behind bars. Fvck them.

This immunity thing is bogus. I wonder if this country will ever realize that the lobbyists bought votes with more power than their pathetic vote on election day is ever worth.
 

ayabe

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2005
7,449
0
0
What about cell phones, email, text messages?

The fact is, all of this information has been captured from all of us with no regard to our affiliation with terror.

I think this entitles us to be exempt from any income tax for say, the next 40 years.
 

Stoneburner

Diamond Member
May 29, 2003
3,491
0
76
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: FoBoT
and bankrupting the telecoms benefits us, how?

No judgement that large would ever happen, and if it did it would be reduced on appeal. What you should really be asking is "does enforcing the law help us?". That's what this would be doing, and of course the answer is yes.

Punitives are reduced. THere would be no reason or basis for reducing statutorily authorized fees and regular damages.
 

Nitemare

Lifer
Feb 8, 2001
35,461
4
81
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Originally posted by: ahurtt
Originally posted by: Arkaign
Originally posted by: FoBoT
and bankrupting the telecoms benefits us, how?

Means that breaking the law still brings a price along with it.

Unfortunately it is the customers who will suffer as they are left with no service when the company collapses. It would in no way shape or form benefit the economy if AT&T collapsed.
So take those directly involved and throw them behind bars. Fvck them.

This immunity thing is bogus. I wonder if this country will ever realize that the lobbyists bought votes with more power than their pathetic vote on election day is ever worth.

Sort of like how they did Big Tobacco instead of letting them pass the buck on to their customers?

I'm sorry, but in this country if you have money you are nearly untouchable.
 

Kadarin

Lifer
Nov 23, 2001
44,296
16
81
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Originally posted by: ahurtt
Originally posted by: Arkaign
Originally posted by: FoBoT
and bankrupting the telecoms benefits us, how?

Means that breaking the law still brings a price along with it.

Unfortunately it is the customers who will suffer as they are left with no service when the company collapses. It would in no way shape or form benefit the economy if AT&T collapsed.
So take those directly involved and throw them behind bars. Fvck them.

This immunity thing is bogus. I wonder if this country will ever realize that the lobbyists bought votes with more power than their pathetic vote on election day is ever worth.

This is something that should definitely happen (both on the government and corporate sides of this situation).
 

thraashman

Lifer
Apr 10, 2000
11,112
1,587
126
Originally posted by: Kadarin
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Originally posted by: ahurtt
Originally posted by: Arkaign
Originally posted by: FoBoT
and bankrupting the telecoms benefits us, how?

Means that breaking the law still brings a price along with it.

Unfortunately it is the customers who will suffer as they are left with no service when the company collapses. It would in no way shape or form benefit the economy if AT&T collapsed.
So take those directly involved and throw them behind bars. Fvck them.

This immunity thing is bogus. I wonder if this country will ever realize that the lobbyists bought votes with more power than their pathetic vote on election day is ever worth.

This is something that should definitely happen (both on the government and corporate sides of this situation).

I personally think we should just make the telecom companies pay a large fine which is then donated to a charity (perhaps the Veteran's Administration as it's something that actually DOES benefit American's and soldiers). And then anyone in the administration who had involvment in getting AT&T to violate the law should have to forfeit ALL assets to pay off the damages according to the law since it really was the admin making the companies violate FISA. If we can't get people to hold the admin legally responsible, I'd settle for financially.
 

ericlp

Diamond Member
Dec 24, 2000
6,137
225
106
Personally, I think the cell phone users that were wire tapped under AT&T/cingular should get 2 to 3 times as much in compensation.


Then I think it would be fair.... ;)

As for anyone getting any money back... Another pipe dream.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
88,054
55,548
136
Originally posted by: thraashman

I personally think we should just make the telecom companies pay a large fine which is then donated to a charity (perhaps the Veteran's Administration as it's something that actually DOES benefit American's and soldiers). And then anyone in the administration who had involvment in getting AT&T to violate the law should have to forfeit ALL assets to pay off the damages according to the law since it really was the admin making the companies violate FISA. If we can't get people to hold the admin legally responsible, I'd settle for financially.

The administration didn't force them to do anything. Qwest refused just fine. The government asked them to help it break the law and they said okay... screw them.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
88,054
55,548
136
Originally posted by: Stoneburner
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: FoBoT
and bankrupting the telecoms benefits us, how?

No judgement that large would ever happen, and if it did it would be reduced on appeal. What you should really be asking is "does enforcing the law help us?". That's what this would be doing, and of course the answer is yes.

Punitives are reduced. THere would be no reason or basis for reducing statutorily authorized fees and regular damages.

It depends. Does the FISA statute give a flat claim of XXX dollars per violation or does it give a range of "up to XXX dollars"? If it is the latter then it very well could be reduced.

EDIT: Yearrg not FISA, privacy statutes.