***OFFICIAL YANKEES THREAD 2006***

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: Soccer55


You should look at the roster and take into account the salaries of the Yankees' homegrown talent in the total payroll. Off the top of my head, the following current Yankees came up through the Yankee farm system: Jeter, Bernie, Rivera, Cabrera, Cano.

q]

I thought Rivera was a cuban exile? Wasn't he already a great player when he got here and the Yankees "won" the jackpot so to speak when the signed him? Or am I thinking of another player?

 

[Soccer55]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: Soccer55


You should look at the roster and take into account the salaries of the Yankees' homegrown talent in the total payroll. Off the top of my head, the following current Yankees came up through the Yankee farm system: Jeter, Bernie, Rivera, Cabrera, Cano.

I thought Rivera was a cuban exile? Wasn't he already a great player when he got here and the Yankees "won" the jackpot so to speak when the signed him? Or am I thinking of another player?

Rivera is from Panama.

-Tom

 

[ProfJohn]

Matsui is not from within the organization, he was a star in Japan who came over to play for the Yankees.

When I think "within the prganization" I think Jeter who worked his way up, or Papelon.

 

[raildogg]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Matsui is not from within the organization, he was a star in Japan who came over to play for the Yankees.

When I think "within the prganization" I think Jeter who worked his way up, or Papelon.

Yes, but there are others from within the organization. You can't just say that everyone is from the outside. Most teams have players that are not homegrown. You just accept that and the Yankees are no exception. But I find it interesting that these sort of things only come up when the Yankees win - when they lose, I rarely hear this stuff. Again, I don't blame the people from bashing the Yankees. When you are the best, you expect to get criticized.

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: Soccer55
And if you want to talk about fixing a problem by spending, why don't we talk about that World Series champion Red Sox team?

-Tom

.

The Red Sox won the world series by trading away Nomar for a bunch of small time players who together made a gerat impact. Jose Cabrera, Dave Brown, Michewhatevervich etc.

They didn't go out and sign some big hitter, they had to trade someone.

Contrast that to the Yankees who already had the largest payroll in baseball when they signed A-rod. The Red Sox tried to get A-rod, but they would have had to trade Manny, their highest paid player in order to "affoard" A-rod.

That is sort of my point, they Yankees have a bottomless bank account, and they use it to 'buy' the players they need to win. Most other teams are doing it in other ways.


Note: the Red Sox did go out and get Schiling, not sure how much he makes, but a little less than A-rod, although Texas pays some of A-rod's salary

 

[ThePresence]

Oh please. Ortiz and Manny did not exactly come up through the Sox system.
i think the Yankees have more homegrown talent playing right now than the Sox do. :roll:

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: raildogg

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Matsui is not from within the organization, he was a star in Japan who came over to play for the Yankees.

When I think "within the prganization" I think Jeter who worked his way up, or Papelon.

Yes, but there are others from within the organization. You can't just say that everyone is from the outside. Most teams have players that are not homegrown. You just accept that and the Yankees are no exception. But I find it interesting that these sort of things only come up when the Yankees win - when they lose, I rarely hear this stuff. Again, I don't blame the people from bashing the Yankees. When you are the best, you expect to get criticized.

When they loss we all talk about how much money the Boss has wasted etc etc.

Last year the Red Sox and Yankees "wasted" 330 million...

Interesting according to USA today the Red Sox and Yankees are spending LESS this year that last, that must be because last years figures include additions to the line up, signings etc, and this years is from the start of the season.

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: ThePresence
Oh please. Ortiz and Manny did not exactly come up through the Sox system.
i think the Yankees have more homegrown talent playing right now than the Sox do. :roll:

I am not complaining that they go out and spend money or have players who did not come from 'within' I could careless where the players come from.

My point is that the Yankees can and do spend their way out of problems that other teams can't.

If any other team suffered the unjuries that the Yankees did early in the year you would expect them to suffer, like the Sox are doing now, but the Yankees just go out and spend money to solve their problem. Life sucks, oh well.

 

[raildogg]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: ThePresence
Oh please. Ortiz and Manny did not exactly come up through the Sox system.
i think the Yankees have more homegrown talent playing right now than the Sox do. :roll:

I am not complaining that they go out and spend money or have players who did not come from 'within' I could careless where the players come from.

My point is that the Yankees can and do spend their way out of problems that other teams can't.

If any other team suffered the unjuries that the Yankees did early in the year you would expect them to suffer, like the Sox are doing now, but the Yankees just go out and spend money to solve their problem. Life sucks, oh well.

The Red Sox did not lose because of injuries. They lost because their bullpen, starting pitching did not perform that well. Yankees are missing Matsui, Sheffield and others too. You are right that Yankees do have more to spend. Again, blame the system. I feel for the Boston fans too. I know the feeling.

 

[Soccer55]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: ThePresence
Oh please. Ortiz and Manny did not exactly come up through the Sox system.
i think the Yankees have more homegrown talent playing right now than the Sox do. :roll:

I am not complaining that they go out and spend money or have players who did not come from 'within' I could careless where the players come from.

My point is that the Yankees can and do spend their way out of problems that other teams can't.

If any other team suffered the unjuries that the Yankees did early in the year you would expect them to suffer, like the Sox are doing now, but the Yankees just go out and spend money to solve their problem. Life sucks, oh well.

But you ARE complaining about the Yankees just going out and spending money to fix a problem when others are telling you that 1) A good chunk of the Yankees' payroll goes to homegrown players and 2) There are homegrown players that have helped them through the injuries. Yes, the Yankees CAN spend their way out of problems, but as a few people have pointed out, they have gotten a lot of help from homegrown talent this year (which is contrary to the point you make in the last sentence of the above quote).

-Tom

 

[ProfJohn]

Ok... 7 out of the top 25 highest payed players in the game play for the Yankees.
1!!!! of the top 25 play for the Red Sox.

Look at the list, it makes my point. Giambi, A-rod, Mussina, Randy Johnson and Johnny Damon all big time players signed by the Yankees at the peak of their careers. Of the 7 only Jeter and Matsui have never played on another team.

http://asp.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/salaries/top25.aspx?year=2006

1 Rodriguez, Alex $ 21,680,727 New York Yankees
2 Jeter, Derek $ 20,600,000 New York Yankees
3 Giambi, Jason $ 20,428,571 New York Yankees
4 Bagwell, Jeff $ 19,369,019 Houston Astros
5 Bonds, Barry $ 19,331,470 San Francisco Giants
6 Mussina, Mike $ 19,000,000 New York Yankees
7 Ramirez, Manny $ 18,279,238 Boston Red Sox
8 Helton, Todd $ 16,600,000 Colorado Rockies
9 Pettitte, Andy $ 16,428,416 Houston Astros
10 Ordonez, Magglio $ 16,200,000 Detroit Tigers
11 Johnson, Randy $ 15,661,427 New York Yankees
12 Park, Chan Ho $ 15,505,142 San Diego Padres
13 Martinez, Pedro $ 14,875,000 New York Mets
14 Hampton, Mike $ 14,503,543 Atlanta Braves
15 Berkman, Lance $ 14,500,000 Houston Astros
16 Thome, Jim $ 14,166,667 Chicago White Sox
17 Colon, Bartolo $ 14,000,000 Los Angeles Angels
18 Pujols, Albert $ 14,000,000 St. Louis Cardinals
19 Abreu, Bobby $ 13,600,000 Philadelphia Phillies
20 Beltran, Carlos $ 13,571,428 New York Mets
21 Delgado, Carlos $ 13,500,000 New York Mets
22 Guerrero, Vladimir $ 13,500,000 Los Angeles Angels
23 Jones, Andruw $ 13,500,000 Atlanta Braves
24 Damon, Johnny $ 13,000,000 New York Yankees
25 Matsui, Hideki $ 13,000,000 New York Yankees

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: raildogg

The Red Sox did not lose because of injuries. They lost because their bullpen, starting pitching did not perform that well. Yankees are missing Matsui, Sheffield and others too. You are right that Yankees do have more to spend. Again, blame the system. I feel for the Boston fans too. I know the feeling.

I am not bitching about tonights game, but in general.

 

[raildogg]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: raildogg

The Red Sox did not lose because of injuries. They lost because their bullpen, starting pitching did not perform that well. Yankees are missing Matsui, Sheffield and others too. You are right that Yankees do have more to spend. Again, blame the system. I feel for the Boston fans too. I know the feeling.

I am not bitching about tonights game, but in general.

Yes, the system is at fault and it is not fair for the small market teams. It has been this way for a while. But if you expect to fix the system, the fans of the big market teams will have to face the consequences and that means Boston and New York.

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: Soccer55

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: ThePresence
Oh please. Ortiz and Manny did not exactly come up through the Sox system.
i think the Yankees have more homegrown talent playing right now than the Sox do. :roll:

I am not complaining that they go out and spend money or have players who did not come from 'within' I could careless where the players come from.

My point is that the Yankees can and do spend their way out of problems that other teams can't.

If any other team suffered the unjuries that the Yankees did early in the year you would expect them to suffer, like the Sox are doing now, but the Yankees just go out and spend money to solve their problem. Life sucks, oh well.

But you ARE complaining about the Yankees just going out and spending money to fix a problem when others are telling you that 1) A good chunk of the Yankees' payroll goes to homegrown players and 2) There are homegrown players that have helped them through the injuries. Yes, the Yankees CAN spend their way out of problems, but as a few people have pointed out, they have gotten a lot of help from homegrown talent this year (which is contrary to the point you make in the last sentence of the above quote).

-Tom

Spending money isn't bad, spending 70 million more than the next team is. Having 7 of the top 25 highest paid players on your team is bad.
I just think the system should be changed to "level" the field more. Say a spending cap of 120-130 million with a bottom of 50-60 maybe.

 

[ProfJohn]

Last post and then bed time... 2:35am on the east coast.

The Yankees 3 highes paid players collect 62 million a year, that is more than 10 teams total salary.

The system is messed up. Doubt it will change though with the players union against a cap and the owners not being able to stand up to them. The only good thing about all this is that money does not equal titles since the highest paid teams have only won 1 world series in the past 5 years.... 2003 Red Sox. (Last year the Yankees spent more than the Red Sox and White Sox put together)

Maybe the All Star game should be Yankees vs Everyone else

 

[Soccer55]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Ok... 7 out of the top 25 highes payed players in the game play for the Yankees.
1!!!! of the top 25 play for the Red Sox.

Look at the list, it makes my point. Giambi, A-rod, Mussina, Randy Johnson and Johnny Damon all big time players signed by the Yankees at the peak of their careers. Of the 7 only Jeter and Matsui have never played on another team.

Let's see:

A-Rod - Traded for in February 2004
Jeter - Homegrown
Giambi - Signed as a free agent in December 2001
Mussina - Signed as a free agent in November 2000
Johnson - Traded for in January 2005
Matsui - Signed as a free agent in December 2002
Damon - Signed as a free agent in January 2006

So aside from Abreu, how is any of that information in your post related to your point about the Yankees spending money to fix injury problems? All of the other Yankees on that list were either traded for or signed as free agents in the offseason. Have you strayed from your original point and resurrected the dead horse that is a straight up payroll argument? Or do you just hate the Yankees?

-Tom

 

[Soccer55]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: Soccer55

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: ThePresence
Oh please. Ortiz and Manny did not exactly come up through the Sox system.
i think the Yankees have more homegrown talent playing right now than the Sox do. :roll:

I am not complaining that they go out and spend money or have players who did not come from 'within' I could careless where the players come from.

My point is that the Yankees can and do spend their way out of problems that other teams can't.

If any other team suffered the unjuries that the Yankees did early in the year you would expect them to suffer, like the Sox are doing now, but the Yankees just go out and spend money to solve their problem. Life sucks, oh well.

But you ARE complaining about the Yankees just going out and spending money to fix a problem when others are telling you that 1) A good chunk of the Yankees' payroll goes to homegrown players and 2) There are homegrown players that have helped them through the injuries. Yes, the Yankees CAN spend their way out of problems, but as a few people have pointed out, they have gotten a lot of help from homegrown talent this year (which is contrary to the point you make in the last sentence of the above quote).

-Tom

Spending money isn't bad, spending 70 million more than the next team is. Having 7 of the top 25 highest paid players on your team is bad.
I just think the system should be changed to "level" the field more. Say a spending cap of 120-130 million with a bottom of 50-60 maybe.

Are you understanding that your argument has changed from your original posting about this topic? You've gone from "Yankees buy their way out of injuries" to "Yankees have too much money to spend and it's bad for the game". Have you accepted the fact that the Yankees didn't really buy their way out of their injury problems this year and moved on to the total payroll argument or what?

-Tom

EDIT: Eye kant speel

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: Soccer55

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Ok... 7 out of the top 25 highes payed players in the game play for the Yankees.
1!!!! of the top 25 play for the Red Sox.

Look at the list, it makes my point. Giambi, A-rod, Mussina, Randy Johnson and Johnny Damon all big time players signed by the Yankees at the peak of their careers. Of the 7 only Jeter and Matsui have never played on another team.

Let's see:

A-Rod - Traded for in February 2004
Jeter - Homegrown
Giambi - Signed as a free agent in December 2001
Mussina - Signed as a free agent in November 2000
Johnson - Traded for in January 2005
Matsui - Signed as a free agent in December 2002
Damon - Signed as a free agent in January 2006

So aside from Abreu, how is any of that information in your post related to your point about the Yankees spending money to fix injury problems? All of the other Yankees on that list were either traded for or signed as free agents in the offseason. Have you strayed from your original point and resurrected the dead horse that is a straight up payroll argument? Or do you just hate the Yankees?

-Tom

Damn... you got me Tom

Really now.... the Yankees added 16 million in payroll in just the month of July. They did that to offset the loss of Matsui and Williams right? How many other teams can add 16 million worth of payroll? Heck the Marlins don't spend than much on all their players... what a sad story that is.

That is my who point, they Yankees had a problem with injuries, they spent money, problem gone. No other team in baseball or any other American sport can operate like that. (most have salary caps though)

Frank Abagnale Sr.: You know why the Yankees always win, Frank?
Frank Abagnale, Jr.: 'Cause they have Mickey Mantle?
Frank Abagnale Sr.: No, it's 'cause the other teams can't stop staring at those damn pinstripes. (today it would not be pinstrips, but dollar signs.)

 

[Soccer55]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Really now.... the Yankees added 16 million in payroll in just the month of July. They did that to offset the loss of Matsui and Williams right? How many other teams can add 16 million worth of payroll? Heck the Marlins don't spend than much on all their players... what a sad story that is.

That is my who point, they Yankees had a problem with injuries, they spent money, problem gone. No other team in baseball or any other American sport can operate like that. (most have salary caps though)

1 player can't fill 2 holes in the outfield.....so where did they get that other outfielder? Also, remember that Bobby Crosby, Melky Cabrera, and Bernie Williams filled the holes in the OF before Abreu came along. They would have been stupid to pass on Abreu given the deal that the Phillies were willing to take, but spending money didn't get rid of the problem.....there were 2 holes in the OF, so the money spent on Abreu only covered up one of them.

-Tom

 

[m2kewl]

all i know is, one team got owned real bad this past weekend!

Yanks bullpen held off Bosox last 3 innings for another WIN!! Sept is looking good!

 

[jman19]

Originally posted by: Soccer55

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: ThePresence
Sox season is slipping away.

Boston Massacre II.

I wish we could just spend our way out of injury problems like the Yankees did, but that is the way it has always been.

Red Sox=lots of heart, little money
Yankee=Lots of money, little heart

You make it sound like the Red Sox don't have the 2nd highest payroll in baseball at $120 million :roll:

-Tom

Yeah, those Red Sox really are at a massive disadvantage in the league! LMAO! Almost every other team feels about the Sox the way the Sox do about the Yankees, in terms of payroll, yet Sox fans see themselves as some down and out underdogs... give me a break.

 

[SP33Demon]

My apathy for NY/Boston reached an all time high after Abreau went to NY. I'll be checking back in this thread after NY chokes in the postseason again due to lack of pitching (despite 200+ mil payroll hahaha!!). Baseball is broken.

 

[ThePresence]

People forget that before the Yankees, Tampa Bay and KC just beat the Sox pretty soundly. Payroll is not why the Red Sox are losing. Stop it already.

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon
My apathy for NY/Boston reached an all time high after Abreau went to NY. I'll be checking back in this thread after NY chokes in the postseason again due to lack of pitching (despite 200+ mil payroll hahaha!!). Baseball is broken.

Your apathy for baseball went into an all time high after Boston endured it's most humiliating weekend in 30 years. Be honest.

 

[jman19]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: Soccer55
And if you want to talk about fixing a problem by spending, why don't we talk about that World Series champion Red Sox team?

-Tom

.

The Red Sox won the world series by trading away Nomar for a bunch of small time players who together made a gerat impact. Jose Cabrera, Dave Brown, Michewhatevervich etc.

They didn't go out and sign some big hitter, they had to trade someone.

Contrast that to the Yankees who already had the largest payroll in baseball when they signed A-rod. The Red Sox tried to get A-rod, but they would have had to trade Manny, their highest paid player in order to "affoard" A-rod.

That is sort of my point, they Yankees have a bottomless bank account, and they use it to 'buy' the players they need to win. Most other teams are doing it in other ways.


Note: the Red Sox did go out and get Schiling, not sure how much he makes, but a little less than A-rod, although Texas pays some of A-rod's salary

Umm they didn't "sign" A-Rod, they traded Soriano+ for him... you know, the guy who is absolutely KILLING the ball for a team that plays in a pitchers park.

And about Schilling, the Sox acquired the pitcher that put them over the hump in a blatent salary dumping move by Arizona for basically NOTHING. Don't act like only the Yankees benefit from having a lot of money to spend.