Of course it was a biased movie. Bush flat out lied about there being weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, which is evidenced by the fact that nothing has been found over a year later. He lied that Saddam Hussein had any connection to Al Queda; the 9-11 commission, comprised of members chosen by Bush, confirmed this. Donald Rumsfeld lied that they were taking extreme care not to kill civilians, which is evidenced by the thousands of dead civilians in Iraq. Bush got a report from the CIA, which I have read, which clearly stated (And was clearly titled to point out this fact according to testimony from Condoleeza Rice) that Osama Bin Laden planned to attack the United States very soon through the use of aircrafts. Not only that, but New York was mentioned in the report. Bush was too busy being on vacation for the entire month of August to take any action in relation to the report. There is so much more mentioned in this movie, and beyond this movie, that is grounds for impeachment. You apparently can't handle the truth.
- Aug 23, 2003
- 25,375
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Why don't you get the f-out. I think I'll keep on enjoying myself, the comforts of America, while bashing our idiot of a President.
$8.2 Million Opening Day!!!
I wonder what that will do for the movie's publicity?
You are wrong. Bush did not "flat out lie" about the WMD. Clinton even backed him up on that...Bush had the same intelligence info that Clinton did, and both, along with every other country in the world, believed that Saddam had them.
And the jury is still out on whether he did.
You are a complete and total idiot if you believe all of what you wrote. It's easy to look at all the info and see the warning signs for 9/11 now that you know what the outcome was.
Not so easy before the actual event.
If I were a senator and he came up to me with that I'd be look, he's my kid, I don't make decisions for him. Here's my kid's # and you can talk to him about it.
My problem with Michael Moore is sure he makes good points but he tries so hard to make a point and does such extreme things that he's just as bad as Bush is. It seems like he takes advantage of victims and takes people to appeal to our emotions. That and he's so biased that he distorts facts the other way and makes huge stretches which reflects badly and makes people group him with liberals and democrats.
By the way, the Marines recruiters they showed were just like the ones who tried to recruit me in high school. Come join the marines! No, I'm not interested. Then I get a call and they're li
what are you doing after high school? Me: I'm like going to college.
Well the marines can pay for it! Me: Sorry, I don't need financial help.
You like to travel? Me: Sure, but not with th marines.
You should come by and discuss your options with us. Me: No Thanks.
I've signed you up for Tuesday. Me: That's great, I'm not coming...I hangup.
Tuesday passes
Hello, why didn't you show up at our meeting? Me: Because I didn't agree to come see you.
This continues for about 3 weeks and my friend is like ask him what the marines can do for you because that really pisses him off.
You still need to come down and discuss your options and the marines. Me: What can the marines do for me?
He hangs up never to call again.
Yes, he did lie. The chief weapons inspector himself said that there was no evidence of WMDs. As well, he stated that Bush put words in his mouth to make it appear as though there was evidence of WMDs. Doesn't anyone find it strange that the CIA provided the President with information regarding an upcoming attack using aircrafts and nothing was done to heighten airport security? The information was not vague in any way. Look for the report on Google. You'll probably be able to find it. Also, I think it's very strange that Bush tried to stonewall the investigation of 9-11 until a couple of years after the fact. Then, he refused to testify under oath to the commission, and refused to have it recorded.
NFS4
No Lifer
- Oct 9, 1999
- 72,636
- 47
- 91
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Why don't you get the f-out. I think I'll keep on enjoying myself, the comforts of America, while bashing our idiot of a President.
$8.2 Million Opening Day!!!
I wonder what that will do for the movie's publicity?
Dang, that is quite a bit
woah nelly, so are you trying to say that CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS and virtually all other broadcast media follow neo-cons like sheep?? what planet are you on, now if you had just said Fox news, which by the way is the number one news station in america, then you would be right....but the other stations along with much of print media is highly liberal...nice of fatboy moore not to touch on that
can't wait to see:
http://www.michaelmoorehatesamerica.com/
NFS4
No Lifer
- Oct 9, 1999
- 72,636
- 47
- 91
Originally posted by: bozack
woah nelly, so are you trying to say that CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS and virtually all other broadcast media follow neo-cons like sheep?? what planet are you on, now if you had just said Fox news, which by the way is the number one news station in america, then you would be right....but the other stations along with much of print media is highly liberal...nice of fatboy moore not to touch on that
can't wait to see:
http://www.michaelmoorehatesamerica.com/
So let me get this straight. You wont' go see a movie that talks about our country, our president, and our involvement in the Iraqi war, BUT you will go see a movie that basically goes after Michael Moore?
Hmmmmmm.....talking about getting your priorities in order
Originally posted by: NFS4
So let me get this straight. You wont' go see a movie that talks about our country, our president, and our involvement in the Iraqi war, BUT you will go see a movie that basically goes after Michael Moore?
Hmmmmmm.....talking about getting your priorities in order
If moore's piece of trash was truly a documentary and not a political op/ed piece then I would be more inclined to waste the 10 bucks on it, but since it is nothing more than a glorified personal opinion piece highlighted with some out of context facts I think I will pass....
however with the other movie I have a feeling from watching the trailer that it is in fact a true documentary, and one with a good purpose, to show how an hypocrite blowhard is pulling the wool over the sheep of america's less intelligent sectors eyes.
Originally posted by: bozack
woah nelly, so are you trying to say that CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS and virtually all other broadcast media follow neo-cons like sheep?? what planet are you on, now if you had just said Fox news, which by the way is the number one news station in america, then you would be right....but the other stations along with much of print media is highly liberal...nice of fatboy moore not to touch on that
can't wait to see:
http://www.michaelmoorehatesamerica.com/
no, the part about the media bias refers particularly to the "embedding" of reporters with troops in the field. you're not going to get the most objective reporting when reporters depend on those on whom they are reporting for their safety. Dan Rather himself, who imo is about as professional a newscaster as it gets, said on film that he has a natural bias in favor of Americans just because he is one.
this is why you should see the movie instead of spouting your ignorant hate based on sound bites from other people's reviews and comments about the movie.
NFS4
No Lifer
- Oct 9, 1999
- 72,636
- 47
- 91
Originally posted by: bozack
Originally posted by: NFS4
So let me get this straight. You wont' go see a movie that talks about our country, our president, and our involvement in the Iraqi war, BUT you will go see a movie that basically goes after Michael Moore?
Hmmmmmm.....talking about getting your priorities in order
If moore's piece of trash was truly a documentary and not a political op/ed piece then I would be more inclined to waste the 10 bucks on it, but since it is nothing more than a glorified personal opinion piece highlighted with some out of context facts I think I will pass....
however with the other movie I have a feeling from watching the trailer that it is in fact a true documentary, and one with a good purpose, to show how an hypocrite blowhard is pulling the wool over the sheep of america's less intelligent sectors eyes.
LOL!! Talk about hypcrosy!!!
LOL, you make me laughOne glorified personal opinion from Michael Moore and his views towards America
vs
One glorified personal opinion from some dude about Michael Moore's views towards America
One isn't any more relevant or factual than the other. But what really gets me is that you are more than willing to go see a film bashing Michael Moore without first having seen what all the bashing is directed towards (i.e., Michael and Me, Bowling for Columbine, Fahrenheit 911).
You know how stupid that sounds? That's like saying, I'm gonna go watch a documentary on discrediting "The Passion of the Christ" without actually seeing the film first.
Shouldn't that be, what a horrible biased film?
I wouldn't argue that too much if I were you. Moore himself admits that the film is neither fair nor balanced.
Just got back from seeing this. Wow, this is the only movie besides LOTR and like Spiderman that I have ever seen sell out in my local theater. They even had to add a third late evening show both days so far.
*** Yes, this contains discussion of actual material in the movie and is in fact a spoiler ***
I thought it was good and am looking forward to seeing the sites that will spring up to debunk it. I think he learned from that last time, and thus has kept his mug out of the movie for pretty much all of it and lets all major speaches play out as they were originally spoken. The history of Bush at the beginning was cool, though I had heard a lot of it already. He does a great job of creating this Illuminati-like aura around the Bush and Saudi dealings over the past few decades. If it were between two rich American families it wouldn't be nearly as creepy as it is. The Marine recruters come off pretty bad (I can just imagine their CO telling them where they're being shipped off to for working with Moore like that) -- hell, they come off EXACTLY like spammers. The Bush 9/11 school photo-op is still the single most distressing and disturbing piece in the whole movie, no question in my mind. I mean... what in the world could he have possibly been thinking?
It's definitely a movie that should be seen before it's criticized in any meaningful way. And again, I am looking forward to seeing what's put forward to debunk it.
*** Yes, this contains discussion of actual material in the movie and is in fact a spoiler ***
I thought it was good and am looking forward to seeing the sites that will spring up to debunk it. I think he learned from that last time, and thus has kept his mug out of the movie for pretty much all of it and lets all major speaches play out as they were originally spoken. The history of Bush at the beginning was cool, though I had heard a lot of it already. He does a great job of creating this Illuminati-like aura around the Bush and Saudi dealings over the past few decades. If it were between two rich American families it wouldn't be nearly as creepy as it is. The Marine recruters come off pretty bad (I can just imagine their CO telling them where they're being shipped off to for working with Moore like that) -- hell, they come off EXACTLY like spammers. The Bush 9/11 school photo-op is still the single most distressing and disturbing piece in the whole movie, no question in my mind. I mean... what in the world could he have possibly been thinking?
It's definitely a movie that should be seen before it's criticized in any meaningful way. And again, I am looking forward to seeing what's put forward to debunk it.
Ok I have seen the movie now. If you haven't seen this movie then why are you posting negative remarks about it here? I took three republicans to see the movie and not one of them liked it, at the same time they could not say they hated it either! It was very nicely done. Our entire group laughed and cried! It was a very powerful movie. I sat in the top row of the stadium style seating theatre and looked down to a jam packed room. I couldn?t help but wonder who out of this crowd would vote for Bush this November. It also left me wondering who I was going to vote for period. The part that got to me was that not one democratic senator backed the house reps when they were officially protesting the election. This movie was a wake up call. Although it bashed Bush most of the time, I think everyone looked over the non support from the democrats. We all need to stop and regroup. Our government has problems, if you don?t want to admit that fact then move to Canada. At least there you can get free therapy and Prozac.
I have to say on behalf of Canada, please stay there. We have enough problems here right now with our own federal election next week. We get to choose who amongst Greed, Evil, and Hopelessness (Liberals, Conservatives, New Democratic) gets to lead the country. And no matter who it end up being, the health care system looks like it's in for a reaming. At least all projections are for a minority government (finally) so there'll finally be some real checks and balances amongst them.
Oh, nice mention of the bit with the senators. I liked how he had all the motions up there, not just a few of them. That was sad.
I just got back from actually seeing the movie. As we went in, there were a couple people were protesting the movie outside the theater. I asked them if they were planning on seeing it. Of course they were not, and I asked how they could protest something they hadn't seen. They responded that they just "knew" it was bad an, believe it or not, "seditious".
I find it funny the same thing is going on in this thread. People are knocking the movie, calling MM a liar who hates America, and yet they haven't even seen the movie. Go see it, they do some research and as a result either agree or don't. This unflagging support of Bush looks mighty stupid when you don't even know what you are arguing against.
By the way, I haven't stood in this long of a line for a movie since ATOC. I think that says something about Americans in general that the American haters in the world (and on this board) should take a good hard look at. We like our movies, but when was the last time a documentary was this popular? Just some food for thought.
I find it funny the same thing is going on in this thread. People are knocking the movie, calling MM a liar who hates America, and yet they haven't even seen the movie. Go see it, they do some research and as a result either agree or don't. This unflagging support of Bush looks mighty stupid when you don't even know what you are arguing against.
By the way, I haven't stood in this long of a line for a movie since ATOC. I think that says something about Americans in general that the American haters in the world (and on this board) should take a good hard look at. We like our movies, but when was the last time a documentary was this popular? Just some food for thought.
flexy
Diamond Member
- Sep 28, 2001
- 8,464
- 155
- 106
In America, you are either RED or BLUE, either RIGHT, or LEFT, either conservative, or liberal, either democrat, or republican.
AMerica is the land of opposites.....rich...poor...... you either HATE Moore and like Bush and cuss at Moore and his 'Propaganda', or you hate Bush and think Moore is the greatest guy i the universe.
Thats the reason for all the heated debates...because OBVIOUSLY 'our' country lacks a lot of people who are BRAVE enough, even with a different point of view, to ALSO look at OTHER opinions (eg a republican bush voter going to the movies and watching F911 WITHOUT accusng him of lying and propaganda etc...etc..etc...)
The healthy MIDDLE, the view to the right as well to the left and having an OWN healthy opinion is totally LACKING, at least for a majority of "us"...thats pretty d*mn sad.
I did NOT see the movie yet but i am eager to see it...and i think its GREAT that a controversial movie like this heats up debates, because debates are ALWAYS something good for exchanging opinions and deppen/widen horizons of people who (otherwise) dont have a broader view.
I also think its interesting to see all the rants and words used liek 'propaganda' etc.....and not allowing More having to use the word "Documentary"..because (according to SOME people) a ''documentary' ALLEGEDLY has other attributes....eg a "real documentary" in comparison to Moore's film.
The sad truth is, that there *IS* no such thing as a REAL TRUE TRUTH, and therefore there is also NO real true VIEWPOINT of FACTS, because AL there is are different perceptions of reality <----
The news/media, movies etc. are all biased to ONE extend...so is Moore's film and EVERY other movie, news-report, news-channel, news reporter etc...etc...
So quit your bitching about the terrible liberals and quit your bitching about the horrible republicans and get a healthy view and a healthy opinion of your own instead of just 'belonging' to ONE side and hating the other without anything BETWEEN. Does every republican have to stand 100% behind the IRAQ war ? Does every democrat have to condemn every violence ??? See ??? Only black and white ?? Why is that ? The european political scene is much more...ehrm....'colorful' (broader spectrum)...not that i sayits better...but at least there is more to chose from instead two extremes...IMHO
To sum it up:
I welcome Moores film, because i KNOW that there *IS* propaganda on the TV all the time, especially in times where we are fighting wars in Iraq and Afghanistan......its just NOT perceived as 'propaganda' (in the negative sense) because we (usually) SHARE the same point of view.
But..the fact that already certain companies (disney) did NOT want to distribute the movie etc...ehrm..am i the only one thinking that is kinda scary ???? Do you want OTHER companies folow eg. and then, i say, 10/15 years all our Media are pre-screened and pre-sorted BEFORE we get it ? Because they dont fit certain political 'requirements' ???? Like in China or the former communist countries ?
Therefore...the fact that we are ABLE to see Moore's movie and are able to debate it is something good too and it is something very essential making up OUR society/culture.
All people wo want to ban it or sue etc..etc.. should be ashamed and, better, just take the next train to China or Siberia. Intolerance is very, very dangerous and this (especially) includes intolerance of OTHER opinions !
AMerica is the land of opposites.....rich...poor...... you either HATE Moore and like Bush and cuss at Moore and his 'Propaganda', or you hate Bush and think Moore is the greatest guy i the universe.
Thats the reason for all the heated debates...because OBVIOUSLY 'our' country lacks a lot of people who are BRAVE enough, even with a different point of view, to ALSO look at OTHER opinions (eg a republican bush voter going to the movies and watching F911 WITHOUT accusng him of lying and propaganda etc...etc..etc...)
The healthy MIDDLE, the view to the right as well to the left and having an OWN healthy opinion is totally LACKING, at least for a majority of "us"...thats pretty d*mn sad.
I did NOT see the movie yet but i am eager to see it...and i think its GREAT that a controversial movie like this heats up debates, because debates are ALWAYS something good for exchanging opinions and deppen/widen horizons of people who (otherwise) dont have a broader view.
I also think its interesting to see all the rants and words used liek 'propaganda' etc.....and not allowing More having to use the word "Documentary"..because (according to SOME people) a ''documentary' ALLEGEDLY has other attributes....eg a "real documentary" in comparison to Moore's film.
The sad truth is, that there *IS* no such thing as a REAL TRUE TRUTH, and therefore there is also NO real true VIEWPOINT of FACTS, because AL there is are different perceptions of reality <----
The news/media, movies etc. are all biased to ONE extend...so is Moore's film and EVERY other movie, news-report, news-channel, news reporter etc...etc...
So quit your bitching about the terrible liberals and quit your bitching about the horrible republicans and get a healthy view and a healthy opinion of your own instead of just 'belonging' to ONE side and hating the other without anything BETWEEN. Does every republican have to stand 100% behind the IRAQ war ? Does every democrat have to condemn every violence ??? See ??? Only black and white ?? Why is that ? The european political scene is much more...ehrm....'colorful' (broader spectrum)...not that i sayits better...but at least there is more to chose from instead two extremes...IMHO
To sum it up:
I welcome Moores film, because i KNOW that there *IS* propaganda on the TV all the time, especially in times where we are fighting wars in Iraq and Afghanistan......its just NOT perceived as 'propaganda' (in the negative sense) because we (usually) SHARE the same point of view.
But..the fact that already certain companies (disney) did NOT want to distribute the movie etc...ehrm..am i the only one thinking that is kinda scary ???? Do you want OTHER companies folow eg. and then, i say, 10/15 years all our Media are pre-screened and pre-sorted BEFORE we get it ? Because they dont fit certain political 'requirements' ???? Like in China or the former communist countries ?
Therefore...the fact that we are ABLE to see Moore's movie and are able to debate it is something good too and it is something very essential making up OUR society/culture.
All people wo want to ban it or sue etc..etc.. should be ashamed and, better, just take the next train to China or Siberia. Intolerance is very, very dangerous and this (especially) includes intolerance of OTHER opinions !
when bush was elected by the supreme court i remember feeling the most despair i had ever felt as an american. what had we done? how many will die? any educated person knew he was a warmonger and that innocent lives will be lost as long as he holds office.
the man is bad but he is a puppet. he has proven many times that he doesnt know what he's doing and waits to be told what to say/do. the moore movie has only hinted at this fact but the whole concept is too much to digest for anyone. he was put in power for a reason, because he can be controlled.
i dont trust kerry either. he is a part of skull and bones with bush. it pains me that our choices for president this coming election is either BAD or WORSE.
the man is bad but he is a puppet. he has proven many times that he doesnt know what he's doing and waits to be told what to say/do. the moore movie has only hinted at this fact but the whole concept is too much to digest for anyone. he was put in power for a reason, because he can be controlled.
i dont trust kerry either. he is a part of skull and bones with bush. it pains me that our choices for president this coming election is either BAD or WORSE.
I saw it yesterday in a packed theater. It was really something, when I left and the next group was coming in, the line went all the way around the theater. The movie itself was powerful. I don't cry at movies but I was really fighting back during the 9/11 scenes and the 2 scenes with Lila Lipscomb (the mother who lost her son in Iraq).
I think Moore took a lesson from BFC and spent less time commenting and more time letting the footage speak for itself (there is some *excellent* footage in Iraq interviewing the soldiers).
I think Moore took a lesson from BFC and spent less time commenting and more time letting the footage speak for itself (there is some *excellent* footage in Iraq interviewing the soldiers).
NFS4
No Lifer
- Oct 9, 1999
- 72,636
- 47
- 91
Yes, that was the most disturbing thing out of the whole movie.
You know what, it seems that the only people who are bashing the film and MM are the ones who HAVEN'T SEEN the film. Those who have seen the film seem to have a pretty balanced look at the way things were portrayed.
Saw the movie, and It is powerful like other said.
But I've already decided to play a "liberal" this coming election before the movie.
But I've already decided to play a "liberal" this coming election before the movie.
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