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Official Playstation 5 thread

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Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,066
683
126
I know the original ps4 had a crap wireless card. I've heard the 5 has a much better one. Often times though I'll leave it in rest mode to download patches and updates. Loading times I heard were super fast. The only thing that the ps5 doesn't have is the quick resume where xbox series x uses a portion of hyper virtual memory from the ssd hard drive to save a game state which allows quick resume. Sadly I don't think the ps5 will get a similar feature since it's not using the same type of architecture.
I only use Ethernet for my consoles, so I never really had to deal with the wireless in them. My guess is that it was likely an issue with slower storage or the awfully anemic Jaguar CPU. In regard to the former, it is worth noting that HDDs are actually quite good at reading/writing sequentially, and as long as the downloads could be performed in that manner, the drive shouldn't be an issue.

I don't see why the PS5 couldn't use a feature like that. I mean... I'm not sure why it would require any proprietary Xbox feature as it has always come across as "game hibernation" to me. Although, one thing that kind of came to mind... I wonder if there would need to be any sort of low-level command to force cache synchronization? In other words, you need to ensure that any changes made to a variable in the CPU cache are properly updated in main memory before you save off the data, or else the data won't be the same. Anyway, I figure that the PS5 has more than enough bandwidth, but the lack of storage space might be a bit of a contributing factor. The Xbox loses nearly 130GB to all of its system needs, which includes the resume feature.
 

blckgrffn

Diamond Member
May 1, 2003
8,289
1,558
126
www.teamjuchems.com
I only use Ethernet for my consoles, so I never really had to deal with the wireless in them. My guess is that it was likely an issue with slower storage or the awfully anemic Jaguar CPU. In regard to the former, it is worth noting that HDDs are actually quite good at reading/writing sequentially, and as long as the downloads could be performed in that manner, the drive shouldn't be an issue.

I don't see why the PS5 couldn't use a feature like that. I mean... I'm not sure why it would require any proprietary Xbox feature as it has always come across as "game hibernation" to me. Although, one thing that kind of came to mind... I wonder if there would need to be any sort of low-level command to force cache synchronization? In other words, you need to ensure that any changes made to a variable in the CPU cache are properly updated in main memory before you save off the data, or else the data won't be the same. Anyway, I figure that the PS5 has more than enough bandwidth, but the lack of storage space might be a bit of a contributing factor. The Xbox loses nearly 130GB to all of its system needs, which includes the resume feature.
The way the PS5 lays out it storage means that writes aren't as fast/have a larger cost in terms of write amplification. That's my understanding and why they might be hesitant to implement a feature that would regularly dump a solid amount of ram data to disk.
 

sze5003

Lifer
Aug 18, 2012
13,644
369
126
The way the PS5 lays out it storage means that writes aren't as fast/have a larger cost in terms of write amplification. That's my understanding and why they might be hesitant to implement a feature that would regularly dump a solid amount of ram data to disk.
That and the series x pretty much has a custom ssd solution that they built to have the quick resume feature around virtualization. The downside of this is the expansion drive for the Xbox might be a bit more costly. But I expect a ps5 expansion internal drive will be just as costly.
 

quikah

Diamond Member
Apr 7, 2003
3,564
345
126
I am not sure how PS5 does it, but everything on Xbox runs in VMs, it is very easy to save state of the VM to disk and restore, this is very mature tech. This is how quick resume works. Trying to do this without VMs would be difficult. That said, it is still somewhat buggy, I have seen some weird behavior once in a while. And some games don't handle this well, online games for instance.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,066
683
126
Found out something interesting about the PS5. I was having some weird flakiness with my Internet setup, and I kept noticing that the install for Demon's Souls was stopping copying from the disc. During an upgrade of the router, the install error'd out, and its error text stated that it couldn't reach the DNS. I thought it was interesting that you need network access to install from the disc, but I'm not sure if this was a thing on the PS4 as well.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
26,881
286
126
Found out something interesting about the PS5. I was having some weird flakiness with my Internet setup, and I kept noticing that the install for Demon's Souls was stopping copying from the disc. During an upgrade of the router, the install error'd out, and its error text stated that it couldn't reach the DNS. I thought it was interesting that you need network access to install from the disc, but I'm not sure if this was a thing on the PS4 as well.
I wonder if you had not connected prior to starting if it would have worked differently. I imagine it was doing some background tasks and data fetching from the network as it was installing the disc.
 

JPB

Diamond Member
Jul 4, 2005
4,040
84
91
I wonder if there will be a PS5 Pro....and a Slim ? And if it will be redesigned....I never buy first console revisions.
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
51,413
4,015
126
I wonder if there will be a PS5 Pro....and a Slim ? And if it will be redesigned....I never buy first console revisions.
Consider there has been a PSOne, PS2 Slim, PS3 Slim, PS4 Pro, I think it's safe to assume there will be a PS5 revision.
 

jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
10,546
2,653
136
A Pro is definitely going to happen. A Slim OTOH probably won't. The R&D costs shrinking it to 3FF are gonna be crazy.

There probally won't be any price cuts either.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,066
683
126
If I had to guess, one of the first changes you'll see will be a model with more internal memory. It's hard to tell how long that will take, but Micron did just release their new 3D NAND that should offer more space per die. So, I'm guessing it won't require as much rework to use the same number of dies.

I could also see Sony releasing a model with a pre-installed NVMe SSD once that feature has been enabled. Although, the idea would be to keep prices in line, and adding a whole new M.2 drive of a decent size will likely see a decent BOM increase.
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
51,413
4,015
126
I'm already hearing about people running out of storage. Having only 670 gigs available for "next gen" really is a joke.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
26,881
286
126
I'm already hearing about people running out of storage. Having only 670 gigs available for "next gen" really is a joke.
Are there any options for the ps5 to get more storage though? At least series x has something even if those expansion cards are a bit expensive
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
51,413
4,015
126
Are there any options for the ps5 to get more storage though? At least series x has something even if those expansion cards are a bit expensive
I'm not sure. I also recall seeing headlines for articles about the PS5 expansion slot not being ready for launch. I don't really know what that means as I didn't click the link or read more into it as I've never worried about space.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
26,881
286
126
I'm not sure. I also recall seeing headlines for articles about the PS5 expansion slot not being ready for launch. I don't really know what that means as I didn't click the link or read more into it as I've never worried about space.
Oh, I was under the impression that you could open it and plug in another ssd. Sucks
 

sze5003

Lifer
Aug 18, 2012
13,644
369
126

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,066
683
126
The PS5 is sort of similar to the Series consoles in that PS4 games can be stored and run off external storage. Gamespot’s test showed that there was no difference between loading games off the internal drive compared to a Samsung QVO drive. (That’s Samsung’s new, cheaper drive that uses QLC, or four bits per cell.)

However, there’s one distinct difference... the PS5 does not allow you to transfer PS5 games to an external drive for storage, which is possible on the Series consoles.

Although, one thing has come to mind... if a game has both a PS4 and PS5 release and has a free upgrade for the PS4 version, is there any reason to buy the PS5 game? I figure that the game disc might be different... like how PS4 Spider-Man takes up ~10GB more space than the PS5 one even though the latter likely has larger textures. I haven’t tested it yet, but I’m assuming a PS5 disc doesn’t work on a PS4? So, outside of maybe losing more space, I’m essentially buying a less capable copy?
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
26,881
286
126

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,066
683
126
I’ve been using Rest Mode the whole time, but I haven’t seen any issues even though games are left open. Although, I haven’t started either Spider-Man game yet, so that could be why.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
106,635
21,719
146
early bricking sounds bad if that is what's happening--like, real bricking and can't be fixed by a patch. Hopefully Sony takes care of such customers if that happens with very little static.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
26,881
286
126
early bricking sounds bad if that is what's happening--like, real bricking and can't be fixed by a patch. Hopefully Sony takes care of such customers if that happens with very little static.
I had a thought. What if people doing the rebuild option got a “bricked” ps5 because the software is handling the SSD as if it were an HDD? They tell you never to defragment an SDD on a PC and it has its own garbage collection method etc.

I find it hard to believe Sony didn’t think of this but clearly the software affected the SDD in a way that the console cannot start.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
106,635
21,719
146
I had a thought. What if people doing the rebuild option got a “bricked” ps5 because the software is handling the SSD as if it were an HDD? They tell you never to defragment an SDD on a PC and it has its own garbage collection method etc.

I find it hard to believe Sony didn’t think of this but clearly the software affected the SDD in a way that the console cannot start.
yeah, SSDs can be flaky, but that would surprise me because they have been around for so long now, you'd think the engineers at Sony would know all of this, right?
 

Commodus

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2004
8,602
5,798
136
I haven't used my PS5 enough to verify stability, but I tend to close apps before sleep mode anyway.

What I love is just how... seamless everything is. In Miles Morales there's basically no load screens at all. Cutscenes and gameplay just flow smoothly into each other. Heck, even an unoptimized Destiny 2 feels "fixed" simply by eliminating all the storage-related hangups.
 
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quikah

Diamond Member
Apr 7, 2003
3,564
345
126
yeah, SSDs can be flaky, but that would surprise me because they have been around for so long now, you'd think the engineers at Sony would know all of this, right?
They are using a custom SSD controller though, so they need to handle things differently. Most likely the special things they need to do (probably just the driver code for the controller) has some bugs that need to be ironed out.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,066
683
126
They are using a custom SSD controller though, so they need to handle things differently. Most likely the special things they need to do (probably just the driver code for the controller) has some bugs that need to be ironed out.
So, these are the factors that come to mind for me...
  1. Even though both PS4 and PS5 have the data rebuild, this only happens on the PS5.
  2. Data rebuild normally happens if the system doesn't shutdown correctly.
    1. Is it some sort of dirty bit style setup?
  3. The only reports that I have seen are with two specific games: Spider-Man Remastered and Spider-Man Miles Morales
    1. The PS4 Spider-Man, which does not have a PS5 patch, does not seem to be causing a problem.
    2. Miles Morales for the PS4 does have a PS5 patch.
With those, I'm wondering if it could have something to do with file access/locking that isn't properly relinquished when going into Rest Mode. The big sticking point for me is that it isn't every game/application that seems to be causing the problem, and it's also not even the PS4 version of the game. It could be more of a bug between the PS5's Rest Mode and/or file system implementation and Spider-Man's PS5-enhanced engine.
 

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