OFFICIAL NFL week 12 thread

[IndyColtsFan]

Dan Orlovsky named starter for the Colts. About damn time.

 

[angminas]

What is your point exactly?

Ok, this is the short version. No argumentative garbage. Just talking about general probabilities.

If a highly rated QB could choose where they would fall in the first round, it would basically be a $$$$ and personal success vs. $$ and team success decision, since you'd be going to a better team. I know that most would take door #1, but I'd take door #2.

Again, this is the short version.

 

[Arkaign]

Yes, I understand what you said, and your point makes no sense:

1. Which player out there DOESN'T want to be drafted as high as possible, get paid the big bucks, and have a franchise built around him? I doubt many high first round picks have said "Damn, I wish I would've sucked more in college so I would've dropped into the second round and make 20% of what I would've made."

2. Each year, how many "winners" need to draft a franchise QB?

Elway, Manning, Aikman -- the list goes on and on of franchise QBs who went to teams which were losers and turned them around into SB champs. These kids want to be like those guys.

I'm a Dallas fan, I grew up here, and I loved the hell out of Aikman, but I don't think he's nearly as good as Elway or Manning were.

The reason I say that is that during the golden era of 92-95 he had an absolutely staggeringly good offensive line and a lot of dangerous weapons to work with. The TE was great, the receivers were outstanding, the RB was hardcore, the HB was gold, but yeah, above all that O-line was a damned monster.

I don't want to take anything away from him though, he was basically unflappable, and pinpoint accurate almost all the time. But he was the very definition of a pocket passer, he needed that protection and capable hands to receive his passes.

Elway, well shit, you'd chase him out of the pocket, he'd have two guys on his ass, he'd be running sideways and throw the damned ball diagonally to the opposite sideline like it was easy.

Manning, well, nuff said. He was pretty much the perfect package in a QB.

I think the 92-95 Cowboys could have gone to the SB with most teams backup QBs.

 

[AstroManLuca]

I'm a Dallas fan, I grew up here, and I loved the hell out of Aikman, but I don't think he's nearly as good as Elway or Manning were.

The reason I say that is that during the golden era of 92-95 he had an absolutely staggeringly good offensive line and a lot of dangerous weapons to work with. The TE was great, the receivers were outstanding, the RB was hardcore, the HB was gold, but yeah, above all that O-line was a damned monster.

I don't want to take anything away from him though, he was basically unflappable, and pinpoint accurate almost all the time. But he was the very definition of a pocket passer, he needed that protection and capable hands to receive his passes.

Elway, well shit, you'd chase him out of the pocket, he'd have two guys on his ass, he'd be running sideways and throw the damned ball diagonally to the opposite sideline like it was easy.

Manning, well, nuff said. He was pretty much the perfect package in a QB.

I think the 92-95 Cowboys could have gone to the SB with most teams backup QBs.

Manning = Marino
Brady = Aikman
Brees (or Kurt Warner?) = Elway

Not so sure on the last one but the first two seem like apt comparisons.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

I'm a Dallas fan, I grew up here, and I loved the hell out of Aikman, but I don't think he's nearly as good as Elway or Manning were.

The reason I say that is that during the golden era of 92-95 he had an absolutely staggeringly good offensive line and a lot of dangerous weapons to work with. The TE was great, the receivers were outstanding, the RB was hardcore, the HB was gold, but yeah, above all that O-line was a damned monster.

I don't want to take anything away from him though, he was basically unflappable, and pinpoint accurate almost all the time. But he was the very definition of a pocket passer, he needed that protection and capable hands to receive his passes.

Elway, well shit, you'd chase him out of the pocket, he'd have two guys on his ass, he'd be running sideways and throw the damned ball diagonally to the opposite sideline like it was easy.

Manning, well, nuff said. He was pretty much the perfect package in a QB.

I think the 92-95 Cowboys could have gone to the SB with most teams backup QBs.

Aikman wasn't in Elway or Manning's league to be sure, but he was a great QB. Plus, I doubt the Cowboys from the early 90s could go to the SB with Curtis Painter. I also don't think you remember Babe Laufenberg....

 

[IAteYourMother]

Ok, this is the short version. No argumentative garbage. Just talking about general probabilities.

If a highly rated QB could choose where they would fall in the first round, it would basically be a $$$$ and personal success vs. $$ and team success decision, since you'd be going to a better team. I know that most would take door #1, but I'd take door #2.

Again, this is the short version.

If you're not competitive enough to want to be the best in all that you do (which would lead you to be the #1 pick), then you're probably not going to be that good.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

If you're not competitive enough to want to be the best in all that you do (which would lead you to be the #1 pick), then you're probably not going to be that good.

Before the 1998 draft, Jim Irsay (owner of the Colts) met with Peyton Manning. Manning told him that "I am going to kick your ass for the next 15 years if you don't draft me." That's the type of competitiveness these guys have.

 

[Jeffg010]

Manning = Marino
Brady = Aikman
Brees (or Kurt Warner?) = Elway

Not so sure on the last one but the first two seem like apt comparisons.

Roethlisberger = Elway

Ben has those last min drives for wins like Elway did.

 

[AstroManLuca]

Roethlisberger = Elway

Ben has those last min drives for wins like Elway did.

Perfect, knew I was forgetting someone.

 

[angminas]

If you're not competitive enough to want to be the best in all that you do (which would lead you to be the #1 pick), then you're probably not going to be that good.

swoosh

 

[fustercluck]

I'm not a "Tebow hater," I just don't understand why he's getting credit for the Broncos' defense.

I don't hate tebow. He is a good QB. he is lucky to have a good o-line and d-line.

I do t hink Tebow will be considered a elite level QB though. the kid has the skills and desire to do it.

i think the bears should trade heine to the broncos for him. hell they might go for it. they made stupid decisions in the past about QB trades.

this. dude is lucky that Broncos can manage D against mediocre teams.

I like that he wins, seriously, and he's done much to prove that he can win, but lets see him put up 24 points

That same broncos defense was 1-4 with Kyle Orton. Would it kill you guys to give a little credit to tebow? No one is calling him an 'elite quarterback', he's just a winning quarterback. (reply was 2 days late or so )

 

[vi edit]

HAHAHAHA, Colts fire DC Larry Coyer. The ass should've been fired last year.

I hope to GOD that he isn't the scapegoat and that Caldwell will follow soon.

How about this...

Colts dump Caldwell and hand the reigns over to Peyton to HC. Go out and grab either Leslie Fraiser (MN) or Sparano (Miami) both of whom were solid DC's but lacked the ability to coach both sides of the game.

 

[Chaotic42]

How about this...

Colts dump Caldwell and hand the reigns over to Peyton to HC. Go out and grab either Leslie Fraiser (MN) or Sparano (Miami) both of whom were solid DC's but lacked the ability to coach both sides of the game.

I like it. It might take a few years for them to get into rhythm, but that's probably going to be the case anyway.

 

[vi edit]

I like it. It might take a few years for them to get into rhythm, but that's probably going to be the case anyway.

I guess I was wrong on Sparano. He is an offensive guy. Oops. I thought he was a defensive guru since Miami has played that side of the ball so well under him.

 

[darkswordsman17]

I'm not a fan of his, but damn this is a nice play (resulted in a TD pass)

And Palko, showing that Tebow would be an upgrade for the passing game alone.

 

[manly]

That same broncos defense was 1-4 with Kyle Orton. Would it kill you guys to give a little credit to tebow? No one is calling him an 'elite quarterback', he's just a winning quarterback. (reply was 2 days late or so )

That "same" defense is allowing 8 points fewer per game, even including the pasting by the Lions. It's not like the O is keeping the Broncos defense off the field, they're definitely holding down the opponents. But go ahead and credit the QB for inspiring awesome D. The defense wants to get back on the field and dominate after numerous 3 and outs.

 

[IAteYourMother]

That "same" defense is allowing 8 points fewer per game, even including the pasting by the Lions. It's not like the O is keeping the Broncos defense off the field, they're definitely holding down the opponents. But go ahead and credit the QB for inspiring awesome D. The defense wants to get back on the field and dominate after numerous 3 and outs.

well part of that is because Tebow just never turns the ball over to put the D in shitty situations.

 

[Via]

The Tebow thing is getting weirder by the week. I just saw some highlights of the SD/Den game, and on some of those plays it didn't even look like the SD D-line was trying at all. During one important play in particular all three SD rushers stopped trying to push upfield and just stood there, giving Tebow about a minute and a half to throw.

I don't believe for a second that anyone on SD tanked so Tebow could win; there's something else going on here. I can't put my finger on it yet.

 

[KMFJD]

Dan Orlovsky named starter for the Colts. About damn time.

1st QB to ever play for two 0-16 teams?

 

[manly]

well part of that is because Tebow just never turns the ball over to put the D in shitty situations.

Protecting the ball might be the thing he's best at. But outside of the Detroit game, the defense is playing fantastic and at the very least keeping them in games. They just held SD to 10 points when the defending SB champs got lit up by the same squad just weeks ago. I think the defense deserves much more credit than it's been getting for this 5-1 burst.

The Tebow thing is getting weirder by the week. I just saw some highlights of the SD/Den game, and on some of those plays it didn't even look like the SD D-line was trying at all. During one important play in particular all three SD rushers stopped trying to push upfield and just stood there, giving Tebow about a minute and a half to throw.

I don't believe for a second that anyone on SD tanked so Tebow could win; there's something else going on here. I can't put my finger on it yet.

Are the defenders trying to read Tebow's option read? Sounds like the baffling Jets game where they punted 8 straight possessions (!) but on the final drive, the Jets played prevent thinking Tebow would be forced to throw the ball. With about 5 minutes on the clock, the Broncos instead methodically ran the ball downfield for the winning score.