Not sure if this has been responded to or not, Neo didn't dream that, he was woken up by a disturbance in the Matrix (the second layer). It happened twice in the movie where he was subconsciously aware of drastic Matrix changes.
Not sure if this has been responded to or not, Neo didn't dream that, he was woken up by a disturbance in the Matrix (the second layer). It happened twice in the movie where he was subconsciously aware of drastic Matrix changes.
Anyone have an idea on which door The Architect thought Neo was going to enter?
What would have happened if Neo would have went with the other door? Would Zion really be free?
What would have happened if Neo would have went with the other door? Would Zion really be free?
I'm really not buying that it is a set of nested matrices, if it is, why would neo even make that choice, and what actual layer in the nesting are we seeing?
placebo139
Golden Member
- Jun 25, 2001
- 1,381
- 0
- 76
What are you talking about? The producers thought that this scene is vital to our understanding of the movie and the matrix and is in no way gratuitous and unnecessary.
Anyways, on a less facetious note... The movie was a bit of a disappointment (definitely pales in comparison to the original) but it was a good film nevertheless. The positive aspects of the movie were obviously some of the excellent fight scenes. Although thin on plot, it was sufficient enough to move the story along - even with its half-@ssed attempt of character development.
The negative... well, some of the CGI was way overdone. Like someone said before, the first Matrix had a unique balance that made the movie more "believeable" (whatever that means). Of course the CGI was very entertaining - seeing Neo have at it with a million agent Smith's was pretty interesting - but there were times when not even the best CGI could make this scene "realistic."
Overall, I still thought it was worth it. Won't be rushing to see it again, but I will eventually.
I HIGHLY doubt its a Matrix within a Matrix stuff. I mean c'mon, thats just so incredibly lame. After all this crazy BS about choice, cause and effect, the destruction of Zion, etc. A dream within a dream withing a dream within a dream... Thats just stupid.
Why should we believe anything the Architect says, if Neo does actually pose some threat. The machines would never just sit him down and explain how they exercise their control.
Either Neo poses no threat, or the wachowski's put it in because the audience would get too angry if 'nothing' on-screen can be believed.
Either Neo poses no threat, or the wachowski's put it in because the audience would get too angry if 'nothing' on-screen can be believed.
Because since he realizes it's just another Matrix he knows he can use his powers there, ie. stopping the Sentinels.
If I were Neo, I woulda not chosen. I woulda just sat there w/ the architect forever...
After seeing it again, the people of Zion are the 1% who fail to accept the matrix. They're contained within Zion, a backup matrix. The Oracle stumbled upon a solution where if they thought they had escaped, they wouldn't ever realize tehre was another world on top of the fake matrix.
The Oracle is a program. Everything in the Matrix is a program. This also implies that the Architect is a program designed to facilitate the reloading of the Matrix. Also, the machines still obviously need humans or else they would just destroy all of us without going through this the one bullsh1t. So my guess is they're trying to figure out a way to build a perfect matrix which contains all minds and also has no anomaly in it.
What I think is supposed to happen is Neo is supposed to rebuild the Matrix. Since he can hack it, he recreates it w/ new parameters and makes it more secure this time. He becomes the Architect and effectively creates a system he can't hack, thus evolving the Matrix. He creates a software program in his likeness to act as the Architect and this fail safe mechanism to wait for a future evolution of himself to come and rebuild a better Matrix. The problem with this is the Anomaly, himself, will keep propagating through the system until he builds a Matrix secure enough to contain himself, at which point the Matrix will be perfect. Thus, the cycle continues until he picks the other door(trinity) and Zion is destroyed. Since he picks the Trinity, he will never become the architect again, because he has now chosen the matrix. He has effectively created a system which contains himself. He has gone back to the Matrix.
I dont now where it goes from here though...
After seeing it again, the people of Zion are the 1% who fail to accept the matrix. They're contained within Zion, a backup matrix. The Oracle stumbled upon a solution where if they thought they had escaped, they wouldn't ever realize tehre was another world on top of the fake matrix.
The Oracle is a program. Everything in the Matrix is a program. This also implies that the Architect is a program designed to facilitate the reloading of the Matrix. Also, the machines still obviously need humans or else they would just destroy all of us without going through this the one bullsh1t. So my guess is they're trying to figure out a way to build a perfect matrix which contains all minds and also has no anomaly in it.
What I think is supposed to happen is Neo is supposed to rebuild the Matrix. Since he can hack it, he recreates it w/ new parameters and makes it more secure this time. He becomes the Architect and effectively creates a system he can't hack, thus evolving the Matrix. He creates a software program in his likeness to act as the Architect and this fail safe mechanism to wait for a future evolution of himself to come and rebuild a better Matrix. The problem with this is the Anomaly, himself, will keep propagating through the system until he builds a Matrix secure enough to contain himself, at which point the Matrix will be perfect. Thus, the cycle continues until he picks the other door(trinity) and Zion is destroyed. Since he picks the Trinity, he will never become the architect again, because he has now chosen the matrix. He has effectively created a system which contains himself. He has gone back to the Matrix.
I dont now where it goes from here though...
question about the french guy: the several times he spoke fresh phrases, several people in the audience laughed (both times I saw the movie), they obviously understand french...sooo..what did he say exactly? translated?
Ziptar
Platinum Member
- Jul 7, 2001
- 2,077
- 0
- 86
Neo and the Architect are in a debug session.. see my post a couple of pages back...
Also I don't think Neo is a program... He is an anomolie, a human anomolie.... I think the "By Design" comment the architect makes refers to the process of bringing the one to fruition caputuring the anomolie and prgramming to work around it.. Also to quote the architect..
I think Grimlock Nailed it..I think that when the he left the architects room he was diverted (same as all of the other doors could change where they went..) by the machines into a private Matrix, a prison, for Containment,
This is a falseZion Why would they do that?? If he didn't follow the steps he should have taken they wouldn't just let him runabout willy nilly..
I am guessing that he realized that he was in this falseZion and the comma is because he was able to leave the prison wirelessly (if you will) without needing a hardline..
Maladroit, thanks for the transcript of the debug session.
After reading it I am firmly of the belief that Zion exists outside the matrix... The architect referes to them as seperate entities....
I beleive that the Architect was lying his @ss off to do what ever he could to get Neo through the other door.. I think the Story about destroying and restarting Zion was just to get Neo through that door. The back up plan was the door that supposedly went back to the matrix in order to capture Neo in his own private little matrix... should he not take the bait based on love for Trinity.
As I was going to bed last night I had the crazy Idea that he is not in a matrix but he is at another level of being the "one" since he can control machines.
Eug
Lifer
- Mar 11, 2000
- 24,142
- 1,791
- 126
My take:
1) The Matrix - A great idea with a pretty good script and mediocre actors, but well executed. 8/10
2) The Matrix Reloaded - An OK idea with a meandering script and worse actors, passably (but not impressively) implemented. 6/10
I think they could have cut out about 20 mins of the movie and nobody would have noticed. No, scratch that... If they cut out the right 20 mins, it would have been a lot less meandering.
Also, even the music during the fight scenes was inappropriate. And what's with the crapola CG in Matrix Reloaded?
So overall, I didn't hate the movie, but certainly wasn't floored by it. I'm just hoping Revolutions is much better.
1) The Matrix - A great idea with a pretty good script and mediocre actors, but well executed. 8/10
2) The Matrix Reloaded - An OK idea with a meandering script and worse actors, passably (but not impressively) implemented. 6/10
I think they could have cut out about 20 mins of the movie and nobody would have noticed. No, scratch that... If they cut out the right 20 mins, it would have been a lot less meandering.
Also, even the music during the fight scenes was inappropriate. And what's with the crapola CG in Matrix Reloaded?
So overall, I didn't hate the movie, but certainly wasn't floored by it. I'm just hoping Revolutions is much better.
I really like this chain of infinite loops suggestion...the One becomes the next architect, the system is restarted, and the architect waits for the next One.
Nifty.
OK, am I nuts or did anyone else catch the license plate during the 25million dollar highway scene? I swear for a second viewing a car's rear license it said 80211. Anyone?
Cuda1447
Lifer
- Jul 26, 2002
- 11,757
- 0
- 71
I just saw the movie last night. And let me tell you... I was wow'd. I thought it was better then the first. Not as original perhaps, but its a sequel what do you expect? The fight scenes were great, the acting was fine. The plot was amazing. It was a movie that made you think, I like that. Now the thing that really messes me up is that you dont know who to believe anymore? Is everything the architect said a lie? Is the oracle just telling Neo what he needs to hear? Is morpheus grossly misinformed? I have no clue which parts I take for true, and which are lies/speculation so its really hard to figure out whats going on. A few things I do agree on though.
1. Agent Smith is the guy that betrayed the attacking ships in the real world. Just wondering why he is in a coma like Neo though?
2. Seraph is a previous the one. How else could you explain the fact that they fighted remarkably similar.
Ok well I was expecting to agree on more things, but the more I think about it the more Im confused
What is up with Agent Smith anyone? He is obviously against Neo in some way, even though he is kind of connected to Neo. But he is also against the new agents as well isn't he? And whose side is the Melevelni (whatever) guy on? Is he with the machines? His own side? Agent Smith? Im confused.
Something that makes me think though is the fact that Agent Smith wanted to kill Neo. So he didn't want to let Neo fulfill the supposed prophecy, which turns out to be what the machines wanted all along?
Did the machines just trick Neo into doing what they wanted him to do?
Sorry Im kind of just thinking outloud here.
Anyway great movie, Im going to see it again tonight.
1. Agent Smith is the guy that betrayed the attacking ships in the real world. Just wondering why he is in a coma like Neo though?
2. Seraph is a previous the one. How else could you explain the fact that they fighted remarkably similar.
Ok well I was expecting to agree on more things, but the more I think about it the more Im confused
What is up with Agent Smith anyone? He is obviously against Neo in some way, even though he is kind of connected to Neo. But he is also against the new agents as well isn't he? And whose side is the Melevelni (whatever) guy on? Is he with the machines? His own side? Agent Smith? Im confused.
Something that makes me think though is the fact that Agent Smith wanted to kill Neo. So he didn't want to let Neo fulfill the supposed prophecy, which turns out to be what the machines wanted all along?
Did the machines just trick Neo into doing what they wanted him to do?
Sorry Im kind of just thinking outloud here.
Anyway great movie, Im going to see it again tonight.
Yes, this movie sucked just as bad as the first one. I went to go see it because after Neo knew he was "The One" he'd do some pretty cool things. Nope! Same crap. Bullet time is fine, but I thought there would be more to the movie. Two thumbs down. And the whole "we're in a virtual world" is not an original idea. Maybe to some people here this movie was the first time they were presented with this theory but it is pretty old. Maybe that is why I didn't like the movie. It wasn't original to me.
I agree the virtual world idea is defiantly not new IE: 13th Floor, and Dark City(and many others even before these). But I don't agree on your sucking part at least for the first movie.
How is it possible that the previous Ones were all Neo? Options are (1) he's just a program, which is probably the simplest explanation, (2) the human Neo is quite old, but his "residual self image" (from the first movie) stays the same and his memory is wiped at each reboot, (3) the previous Ones are different humans but all have the same appearance within the Matrix, or (4) the Architect made up the whole thing about multiple Ones to make Neo believe his choice was predestined in order to get him to choose the correct door.
Recursion. The Matrix recursively calls itself and the end condition to exit the recursion hasn't been met yet...
can someone explain this? this is in the very beginning of the first movie
operator (what's his name?): you like him dont you? you like watching him
trinity: dont be ridiculous
operator: we're gonna kill him, you understand that?
trinity: morpheus believes he is the one
operator: do you?
trinity: it doesnt matter what i believe
i dont know if i just totally missed this or what before, but i noticed this after watching it yesterday.
--
if that's the case.. then that would mean she's a program, right? but then how could she be in the 'real world' if she's a program?
if she is a smith or whatever like someone mentioned up there, then she wouldnt be able to be in the 'real world,' which would explain why neo could use his powers in the 'real world.' that'd be because it's actually just antoher matrix
operator (what's his name?): you like him dont you? you like watching him
trinity: dont be ridiculous
operator: we're gonna kill him, you understand that?
trinity: morpheus believes he is the one
operator: do you?
trinity: it doesnt matter what i believe
i dont know if i just totally missed this or what before, but i noticed this after watching it yesterday.
--
if that's the case.. then that would mean she's a program, right? but then how could she be in the 'real world' if she's a program?
if she is a smith or whatever like someone mentioned up there, then she wouldnt be able to be in the 'real world,' which would explain why neo could use his powers in the 'real world.' that'd be because it's actually just antoher matrix
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