so does this mean that every other "one" chose the salvation of Zion door?
What would the other choice/door would have been for the other "ones"?
What would the other choice/door would have been for the other "ones"?
Regs
Lifer
- Aug 9, 2002
- 16,666
- 21
- 81
Don't get me wrong, I loved the first matrix but this one just went over board on many things. Like Zion being a huge rave cult, morpheous acting JFK after being so perceived as humble , Trinity being repeatedly smacked in the face at the end of the movie, and they kept on shoving the concept of choice down your throat until you vomited. Also, the movie didn't commit much time into uncovering more of the mystery behind the matrix that the original did. We were just left with neo searching for the oracle yet again during half the movie.
Fight scenes were nice but neo did not show any new abilities. Playing karate kid as being "The one" does not all impress me. The only time it did however is when he took on the 100 Mr.Smiths ! He could take on the hundred smith's however not the Chinese charector protecting the oracle...hmmm. The guy can fly like a jet and stop bullets.... but he seems to be in deep crap in hand to hand combat. I think it was highly unbalanced. The only time I thought it was balanced is when Morpheus had trouble taking on agents, while Neo whipped the floor with them.
The only thing I really liked about this movie was Moss who played Trinity. A Beautiful woman who has a very strong personality in this movie. The relationship between Trinity and Neo was the only thing that developed from the original and in this plot . Morpheus did not play as strong as a role like the father type figure in the first movie.
In short -
The story was not very thought out and was not delivered to its fullest by the script. They brought to many things to the table and had little time to develop them in the movie. It seemed rushed. Next time they need to give the writers some riddllin. Lets face it, the cool action scenes provided relief for what seemed to be a rushed, mind-warping story that left you with a confused and dumb founded expression on your face through-out the movie.
Fight scenes were nice but neo did not show any new abilities. Playing karate kid as being "The one" does not all impress me. The only time it did however is when he took on the 100 Mr.Smiths ! He could take on the hundred smith's however not the Chinese charector protecting the oracle...hmmm. The guy can fly like a jet and stop bullets.... but he seems to be in deep crap in hand to hand combat. I think it was highly unbalanced. The only time I thought it was balanced is when Morpheus had trouble taking on agents, while Neo whipped the floor with them.
The only thing I really liked about this movie was Moss who played Trinity. A Beautiful woman who has a very strong personality in this movie. The relationship between Trinity and Neo was the only thing that developed from the original and in this plot . Morpheus did not play as strong as a role like the father type figure in the first movie.
In short -
The story was not very thought out and was not delivered to its fullest by the script. They brought to many things to the table and had little time to develop them in the movie. It seemed rushed. Next time they need to give the writers some riddllin. Lets face it, the cool action scenes provided relief for what seemed to be a rushed, mind-warping story that left you with a confused and dumb founded expression on your face through-out the movie.
What I would like to know is what ever happened to tank? He was one of the main characters in the first film and he just suddenly died in this one with no explaination at all..... Man tank was so much cooler than the new nebacanezzar operator.
exactly what would have happened if he chose the other door? the matrix gets reset.....then 23 people are chosen to start zion back up?? why would this be the case? if the humans defeat the matrix, arent they all free? doesnt the matrix fail to exist and all the pods are set free? hmmm.. sound like the real world is for sure another matrix..
if this turns out to be a 13th floor kinda ending...imma be really mad..
if this turns out to be a 13th floor kinda ending...imma be really mad..
can we please have a seperate thread where people can b!tch about the matrix so we can have a good discussion about the plot of the movies?
Wow, I can't believe this got a sticky. The mods must be crazy about all things Matrix. I bet we could post links to the DVDrip of the Animatrix even. 
Regs
Lifer
- Aug 9, 2002
- 16,666
- 21
- 81
Hey lets not comment on how this is a sticky... they should make another sticky topic about why this topic is a sticky....
I offer constructive criticism on the story/plot without slander and I get hagged about going off topic.
And yes I did believe for a slight moment that there was a matrix inside of a matrix. However we have seen that ending all to often, Men In Black 2, case in point. I also think in the passed I've read into to much detail about where the story is trying to take me. Like the kid who always bothers Neo. He is obi there just to keep him alive from the enemy with in.
Most of the plot however evolves around the oracle. But it seems cloudy. The final episode of the matrix will mostly tell the story of the story tellers mythology of choice in life follows consequences. Cause and effect, like Reloaded so eloquently jammed down our throats.
Also do not forget when Smith gave Neo his ear piece. Like how Neo does have some control over the machines. Control over the machines, control over the matrix. And lets not forget about the discussion of control with Neo and the counselor. Did the humans really lose control to the machines? Or did they give it away a long time ago? Did the humans depend on machines too much? Was it the humans choice that made these consequences? If the humans really wanted to, they could all jump put of the matrix and choose a real life without the effort of others. However They would rather live a fake life runned by the machines they've created. Maybe because they thought as a human culture they could not survive without the machines governing them, they would simply self destruct as a race.
Well those are my two cents, I still think they did a horrible job with the movie though. Is there a book?
I offer constructive criticism on the story/plot without slander and I get hagged about going off topic.
And yes I did believe for a slight moment that there was a matrix inside of a matrix. However we have seen that ending all to often, Men In Black 2, case in point. I also think in the passed I've read into to much detail about where the story is trying to take me. Like the kid who always bothers Neo. He is obi there just to keep him alive from the enemy with in.
Most of the plot however evolves around the oracle. But it seems cloudy. The final episode of the matrix will mostly tell the story of the story tellers mythology of choice in life follows consequences. Cause and effect, like Reloaded so eloquently jammed down our throats.
Also do not forget when Smith gave Neo his ear piece. Like how Neo does have some control over the machines. Control over the machines, control over the matrix. And lets not forget about the discussion of control with Neo and the counselor. Did the humans really lose control to the machines? Or did they give it away a long time ago? Did the humans depend on machines too much? Was it the humans choice that made these consequences? If the humans really wanted to, they could all jump put of the matrix and choose a real life without the effort of others. However They would rather live a fake life runned by the machines they've created. Maybe because they thought as a human culture they could not survive without the machines governing them, they would simply self destruct as a race.
Well those are my two cents, I still think they did a horrible job with the movie though. Is there a book?
Triumph
Lifer
- Oct 9, 1999
- 15,031
- 14
- 81
I'm sorry, but that 20 minute long raver techno xtacy nipple baring trinity neo doing it dance scene absolutely ruined the movie for me. I was ready to walk out right then and there. That seemed to be a recurring theme in the movie: pointlessly long scenes. I won't be seeing this again.
I find your criticisms empty and void of reason.
1. Zion isn't a huge rave cult. It's 250,000 men, women, and children, who, during a period of imminent destruction, demonstrated one of the qualities which makes us human - The ability to have fun. The ability to show emotion. The ability to feel and not just think.
2. Morpheus was acting humble in the first one because he was in the presence of not only someone who was his student, but someone who would be their savior. This is the first time we've seen him interact with humans OTHER than his crew - Are you saying you don't act differently around your friends than you do your colleagues and superiors?
3. It wasn't just choice. They gave two options - Merovignan expoused Cause and Effect (determinism), the Architect projected choice (free will), and the Oracle demonstrated fuzzy cause and effect (free will with determinism). They had to shove it down our throats because most people wouldn't take notice of it unless it was prominently showcased. Even then, most people lack the mental faculties to understand what the Wachowskis are doing by showing the 3 possibilities for human futures.
4. The movie didn't uncover more of the mystery than the original because they KNEW there'd be a third installment. Consider this - Had the Wachowskis KNOWN for a fact they'd be able to fulfill their vision of 3 Matrix movies, don't you think they would have had more unanswered questions at the end of the first Matrix?
5. Seraph was a special case. I'm sure we'll find out more in the next movie.
6. Morpheus didn't have anyone to be a father figure to in this movie. In this film, he was a man desperate to acquire the support necessary to act on what he believed. Again, this is because until this movie, we hadn't seen him outside of the Neb.
'nuff said.
The whole thing about precision and anomaly, made me think of Taylor polynomials and the Lagrange Remainder. Maybe they would have gotten more precision then had they used that?
Then after that thought fleeted my mind, the Architech said something about integrals! Also, I think the dialogue was pretty stupid in this movie, as was that rave scene. The way Neo talked, its as if he had a speech inpediment or something.
Regs
Lifer
- Aug 9, 2002
- 16,666
- 21
- 81
Elaborating more on my theory stated above. About humans made the matrix to preserve their race.
Maybe this "Neo" was created as a fail safe. Just in case the matrix got to controlling. Or maybe when people want out he is the key. That could also be my guess is why they called the key maker obsolete. Maybe love is the key? Could be to simple.
Love and the desire (free will) to push forward. A choice in what Neo makes, sets an example for all the human race?
Without free will or choice, we miles well be stuck in a matrix controlled by machines.
The programs, made by the humans who created the matrix, pre-determine or randomly select the "One" and would continue to randomly select "The One" for the matrix to be the fail-safe. A program made inside the source code. Neo, himself has a program made for him inside the matrix to make him what he is. Thats how the oracle knew about everything, cause she was written by a programmer who programmed the matrix. The only thing a program knows how to do though is math and calculations. Its the person that has to make the decisions, the matrix chose Neo to be the one because of how he is. The program makes decisions for who to be "The One" on the characteristics of one person and the odds of that person on what he might do with those characteristics.
Maybe this "Neo" was created as a fail safe. Just in case the matrix got to controlling. Or maybe when people want out he is the key. That could also be my guess is why they called the key maker obsolete. Maybe love is the key? Could be to simple.
Love and the desire (free will) to push forward. A choice in what Neo makes, sets an example for all the human race?
Without free will or choice, we miles well be stuck in a matrix controlled by machines.
The programs, made by the humans who created the matrix, pre-determine or randomly select the "One" and would continue to randomly select "The One" for the matrix to be the fail-safe. A program made inside the source code. Neo, himself has a program made for him inside the matrix to make him what he is. Thats how the oracle knew about everything, cause she was written by a programmer who programmed the matrix. The only thing a program knows how to do though is math and calculations. Its the person that has to make the decisions, the matrix chose Neo to be the one because of how he is. The program makes decisions for who to be "The One" on the characteristics of one person and the odds of that person on what he might do with those characteristics.
This is my theory:
Everything in the Matrix is a program.
The Matrix universe doesn't exist. it is Neos imagination.
He wakes up after programming, and it was all a dream.
But he then starts programming a virtual silumation which turn into the matrix and in 100 years it takes over man. and we all live virtually int he matrix.
Everything in the Matrix is a program.
The Matrix universe doesn't exist. it is Neos imagination.
He wakes up after programming, and it was all a dream.
But he then starts programming a virtual silumation which turn into the matrix and in 100 years it takes over man. and we all live virtually int he matrix.
Jadow
Diamond Member
- Feb 12, 2003
- 5,962
- 2
- 0
Just got back from seeing it. I was utterly dissapointed. It's not as big of a dissapointment as The Phantom Menace, but this movie was a really bad sequel. They tried to do to much, they jumped all over the place, had an overload of new characters, and frankly, the last half hour was just thrown together and lame.
I'm sick of hearing people complain about how this movie wasn't groundbreaking or incredibly original like the first one was. It's a sequel that everyone was screaming for; I personally didn't think it was going to be completely original. Also, I think that the CG (which was hardly noticeable) and the "wire-fu" added a lot to it and I found it pretty intense. If the second coming of Jesus occurred today there would be a bunch of these same people online complaining about how it had the "Worst effects EVAR".
So is he saying Neo is the Matrix? He mentions "your 5 predecessors"...without specific mention of 5 other "the ones". He even said a couple of the first matrices (even in the first movie Smith mentioned it) failed on their own. If it failed on their own it wouldn't matter what "the ones" did
Originally posted by: rust5tyle
I'm sick of hearing people complain about how this movie wasn't groundbreaking or incredibly original like the first one was. It's a sequel that everyone was screaming for; I personally didn't think it was going to be completely original. Also, I think that the CG (which was hardly noticeable) and the "wire-fu" added a lot to it and I found it pretty intense. If the second coming of Jesus occurred today there would be a bunch of these same people online complaining about how it had the "Worst effects EVAR".
Exactly. And you can't really judge Reloaded as a standalone movie. It's more or less just the first half of two parts, with Revolutions to conclude the story. (The original works well as a stand-alone.) You still have another half of the movie for the character development, and story to be explained. As for the Kung-fu and CG, geez people. Have you seen anything more realistic than all those Smiths? Amazing.
Okay, having seen Reloaded twice back to back, and subsequently watching the Animatrix, and now playing through the game, I have to say that I'm fairly impressed with how the Wachowskis managed to get everything to integrate. There's this one cutscene in the game where niobe is in a subway, about to exit the matrix, and this weird fellow walks by and says something to the effect of:
"72 hours......The last Zion lasted for 72 hours......"
which i guess just backs up what the architect said. Other than that....I got nothing.
"72 hours......The last Zion lasted for 72 hours......"
which i guess just backs up what the architect said. Other than that....I got nothing.
watched it for a 3rd time, and picked up some more stuff:
btw, ive only read up to page 8, so if this is covered since then, im sorry
1) the traitor (smith human form) is called BANE, which translates to "RUIN"
2) there is definitely some significant tension between the oracle and the merovingian, which may hint at two CLEAR, different sides of the machines in the war (those that are trying to liberate the humans vs. those that enslaving them)....or at least that there are 2 non-agreeing sides....or that there are 2 different machine sides with 2 different goals......
neway,
a) oracle CLEARLY states that it comes down to the matter of CHOICE, and that THAT is the problem; however, the merovingian VEHEMENTLY states that "no, it is NOT choice" and that "choice is created between those with power and those without"..........so, these two programs (oracle & merovingian) have 2 directly opposing views.....PLUS, merovingian instructs neo to "go back to ur fortune teller and tell her that her time is almost up"........
3) the humans think that the year is around 2200, but bc the architect sez that is currently the 5th matrix and zion has been destroyed (and rebuilt) 5 times....the current humans think that the war has been going on for the last 100 years (morpheus sez this twice in the last 2 movies) when in fact it looks more like it's been going on for the last 600 years....so the year is more like 2600.
4) the architect kept saying that "the one" was "DESIGNED" to do this and "DESIGNED" to do that. this perhaps hints that neo is created or partially created with different code by the machines
5) architect sez that when neo came into the white room, it was so that his code could be "temporarily disseminated" or some**** like that....dunno what that means cuz his wording was weird, but i think neo is changed when he goes to that room....his code is changed....something is altered in neo..... this supports how neo afterwards sez "something's different" and may explain why he feels a connection to the sentinels.... it seems like neo is partly machine now.... this ALSO explains the theory that the EMP fried the sentinels and put neo in a coma (and that neo did not stop the sentinels...it was simply coincidence)....btw, that ship that saved the nebachanezzar's crew was not niobe's ship, the logos, as i had thot before...it was some other ship called "heaven" or something that started with an H
6) architect mentioned something about how "the one" is created or allowed to be developed in each matrix in order to study the human psyche and thusly expose the flaws of the matrix so that the matrix can be upgraded and remade as a better version
7) prophecy: at the end of reloaded, they think that the prophecy is a lie bc morpheus sez "when the one reaches the source, the war will be over" and neo sez that it was all a lie bc he supposedly had come back from the architect's room with all that info....HOWEVER, neo did not listen carefully (or three times as i did haha)....the architect sed that the door to neo's right leads to "the source and the salvation of zion"...... so that means that neo has NOT been to the source yet and thus means that the oracle's prophecy hasnt been tested yet.... so that means that there is room for revolutions to have neo go to the source and see if the war will really end
8) i dint notice this before, but when the merovingian goes to the bathroom (the ladies room) and gets a BJ, it's from the cake-eating white-dressed woman that orgasmed in her seat earlier.... that dint connect before to me.... also, notice that monica belluci uses the men's bathroom as a meeting place for morpheus, trinity, and neo cuz she knows that the merovingian definitely wont be there haha
9) i noticed a mistake: when neo fights seraph (the jet li substitute), and theyre sparring on the tables, the cups fall off the table, but then u see them back on the table, then they disappear again
btw, ive only read up to page 8, so if this is covered since then, im sorry
1) the traitor (smith human form) is called BANE, which translates to "RUIN"
2) there is definitely some significant tension between the oracle and the merovingian, which may hint at two CLEAR, different sides of the machines in the war (those that are trying to liberate the humans vs. those that enslaving them)....or at least that there are 2 non-agreeing sides....or that there are 2 different machine sides with 2 different goals......
neway,
a) oracle CLEARLY states that it comes down to the matter of CHOICE, and that THAT is the problem; however, the merovingian VEHEMENTLY states that "no, it is NOT choice" and that "choice is created between those with power and those without"..........so, these two programs (oracle & merovingian) have 2 directly opposing views.....PLUS, merovingian instructs neo to "go back to ur fortune teller and tell her that her time is almost up"........
3) the humans think that the year is around 2200, but bc the architect sez that is currently the 5th matrix and zion has been destroyed (and rebuilt) 5 times....the current humans think that the war has been going on for the last 100 years (morpheus sez this twice in the last 2 movies) when in fact it looks more like it's been going on for the last 600 years....so the year is more like 2600.
4) the architect kept saying that "the one" was "DESIGNED" to do this and "DESIGNED" to do that. this perhaps hints that neo is created or partially created with different code by the machines
5) architect sez that when neo came into the white room, it was so that his code could be "temporarily disseminated" or some**** like that....dunno what that means cuz his wording was weird, but i think neo is changed when he goes to that room....his code is changed....something is altered in neo..... this supports how neo afterwards sez "something's different" and may explain why he feels a connection to the sentinels.... it seems like neo is partly machine now.... this ALSO explains the theory that the EMP fried the sentinels and put neo in a coma (and that neo did not stop the sentinels...it was simply coincidence)....btw, that ship that saved the nebachanezzar's crew was not niobe's ship, the logos, as i had thot before...it was some other ship called "heaven" or something that started with an H
6) architect mentioned something about how "the one" is created or allowed to be developed in each matrix in order to study the human psyche and thusly expose the flaws of the matrix so that the matrix can be upgraded and remade as a better version
7) prophecy: at the end of reloaded, they think that the prophecy is a lie bc morpheus sez "when the one reaches the source, the war will be over" and neo sez that it was all a lie bc he supposedly had come back from the architect's room with all that info....HOWEVER, neo did not listen carefully (or three times as i did haha)....the architect sed that the door to neo's right leads to "the source and the salvation of zion"...... so that means that neo has NOT been to the source yet and thus means that the oracle's prophecy hasnt been tested yet.... so that means that there is room for revolutions to have neo go to the source and see if the war will really end
8) i dint notice this before, but when the merovingian goes to the bathroom (the ladies room) and gets a BJ, it's from the cake-eating white-dressed woman that orgasmed in her seat earlier.... that dint connect before to me.... also, notice that monica belluci uses the men's bathroom as a meeting place for morpheus, trinity, and neo cuz she knows that the merovingian definitely wont be there haha
9) i noticed a mistake: when neo fights seraph (the jet li substitute), and theyre sparring on the tables, the cups fall off the table, but then u see them back on the table, then they disappear again
wait a minute, how do some ppl know about the unreleased episodes of the animatrix? did i miss something? ive only seen the 4 available from the animatrix site and of course, osiris
Pliablemoose
Lifer
- Oct 11, 1999
- 25,195
- 0
- 56
Now I have to catch the Animatrix stuff...
I liked the movie, a lot.
Torn between the martix having multiple levels or not, Neo stopping the Sentinels is troubling if there aren't 2 levels.
I saw it in a theatre that was just over 1/2 full, and only a handful of folks stayed to watch the trailer for the 3rd movie.
I liked the movie, a lot.
Torn between the martix having multiple levels or not, Neo stopping the Sentinels is troubling if there aren't 2 levels.
I saw it in a theatre that was just over 1/2 full, and only a handful of folks stayed to watch the trailer for the 3rd movie.
If Smith is a virus and he is multiplying rapidly by taking over all he code in the Matrix, then probably using him as a tool to end the Matrix will be the key in Revolutions.
Somebody rippped the dvd thats supposed to be released in June that has all 9 episodes on it....not that I'd have a copy myself or anything.
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